MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame

MathBlade · Post Post #2150 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:02 pm

In post 2148, Titus wrote:@Math, I don't get it.

Wheme wouldn't vote DGB.
DGB kills Wheme in elo?

Yes because hypothetically it’s not about the relationship to DGB

It’s whoever is with Wheme left knows Wheme is town.

Think again with what you do immediately after Galron is flipped look at your last few posts of yesterday.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #2151 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:03 pm

In post 2146, Titus wrote:@Math, Why doesn't DGB scum shoot me?

@DGB, Why check Math?

Wheme was conftown to me, he was out of the question.

So it was between you and MathBlade. If I got an inno, the other was guilty. But I was 90% sure MB was the one. I wanted MB more than Galron yesterday.

MathBlade · Post Post #2152 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm

In post 2084, Titus wrote:Please vote fast night.

VOTE: Galron

Think about here.

If I am Titus… I….
…….

Then I go do lawyer stuff
And there you go.

That’s why Wheme was killed.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #2153 (ISO) » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:23 pm

That's why YOU killed him.

Wheme was conftown from vote pattycakes.

=========

Titus, there is no world where I would leave MB alive as scum. No world in which I would expect to win in elo against you two.

This is MB's fantasy Elo... and my nightmare Elo.

I have been town reading you pretty much all game, and you've been townreading MathBlade all game... and now I'm supposed to convince you that your BROTHER is scum

in extremis.

Titus · Post Post #2154 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:43 am

In post 2153, DrippingGoofball wrote:Wheme was conftown from vote pattycakes.

Why did everyone think this? It ruined my plans. Wheme could have still been scum with Galron.

Titus · Post Post #2155 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:02 am

@DGB, why Xlos for a check

MathBlade · Post Post #2156 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:02 am

Oh it’s not because of patty cakes I think Wheme was conf town.

I guess it will have to wait until end game though.

Titus · Post Post #2157 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:20 am

In post 2156, MathBlade wrote:Oh it’s not because of patty cakes I think Wheme was conf town.

I guess it will have to wait until end game though.

No it won't

Titus · Post Post #2158 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:22 am

This is no time for dancing. There's no need to crumb.

MathBlade · Post Post #2159 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:27 am

It’s not a crumb thing.

It’s a site rules thing.

Imagine what scum do at night vs town.

MathBlade · Post Post #2160 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:28 am

If we lose for obeying site rules then we do.

I have skirted it pretty badly here so sorry.

Titus · Post Post #2161 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 am

I think T3's meta read did enough. I normally don't follow meta this strongly (and I'm surprised neither of you FoSed me for it) but it was T3's last post and he was shot. I know T3 brings a lot to the table I don't bring in terms of gambiting and skill set. I also bet he put in a lot of effort here based on Deco.

Titus · Post Post #2162 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:44 am

*meta skill set.

MathBlade · Post Post #2163 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:53 am

I think T3 was shot for the flavor claim and being a likely investigative and combined with D1 a rolecop.

I get it would be a great kill for DGB to make as scum as it would solidify its towniness but I really think the kill was more for the role. I don’t have a lot of experience with T3 though so I guess maybe it’s possible DGB killed there because meta. I just don’t see T3 being killed for a meta reason. If you assume DGB is town why kill T3 over perceived conf town? I think it has to be mechanical over meta there Titus. I am not scum but even if you assume I am scum then you know I don’t kill for meta reasons and DGB I think kills to protect its fake claim there.

Titus · Post Post #2164 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:04 am

That's something I struggle with. Both of you are arguing

against

your self-interest. DGB argues the kill was made for the social state, which is a kill DGB is more likely to make than you. You argue the kill was role related. DGB killing based on T3's veracity makes less sense due to Deco. You however take everything literally, which makes you a better suspect if the kill was role related.

Normally arguing against one's interest is townie but here it's null because you both are.

Titus · Post Post #2165 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:20 am

In post 2163, MathBlade wrote:you know I don’t kill for meta reasons

Killing based on other people's meta reads makes sense for everyone. I trusted T3 as if it was my own read. That meant I wasn't voting Wheme.

MathBlade · Post Post #2166 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:31 am

In post 2165, Titus wrote:
In post 2163, MathBlade wrote:you know I don’t kill for meta reasons
Killing based on other people's meta reads makes sense for everyone. I trusted T3 as if it was my own read. That meant I wasn't voting Wheme.

Early on in the game yes it can. Assume I am scum:

Llater on in the game as scum I kill for control, not meta.

You making into elo should be a dead giveaway I am town as you are one of the few who usually does elo properly. (I say usually because you didn’t do the fake voting thing to make sure scum have to real vote first rather than relying on a good hero read. I am glad it was right but still)

Titus · Post Post #2167 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:31 am

When I get home tonight, I will be charting out all the problems I have with each of you and my stories if each of you are scum in my PT. I may not share it but I am wanting to be sure.

MathBlade · Post Post #2168 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:33 am

This can be plainly evident in Shadowrun. Kills were made for position not meta.

Pedit: Good luck Titus. I am not sure how to help you more than I have but if you have questions let me know.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #2169 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:59 am

In post 2155, Titus wrote:@DGB, why Xlos for a check

I can kick myself for this, because my check was on MathBlade all night. Then at the last second, I had some misgivings.

You were heavily townreading MathBlade, and no one shared my suspicions. Whereas Xlos, I was townreading, and everyone else was scumreading.

So I thought... I was wrong on Toogeloo, what if I'm wrong again, maybe the other players are right. So just before dawn I PM'd the mod and changed my choice.

If the mod shared that in the dead thread, I probably got a verbal beating from the game afterlife

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #2170 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:01 am

In post 2154, Titus wrote:
In post 2153, DrippingGoofball wrote:Wheme was conftown from vote pattycakes.
Why did everyone think this? It ruined my plans. Wheme could have still been scum with Galron.

Very very long shot for Wheme to be scum with Galron. The combination of pattycake AND his behavior sealed it for me.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #2171 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:03 am

In post 2164, Titus wrote:DGB argues the kill was made for the social state, which is a kill DGB is more likely to make than you. You argue the kill was role related.

Maybe it's inherent bias. I'm a social state player, MB is more a mech player. Also MB is scum so you have to take that into consideration.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #2172 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:08 am

It's all very simple.

THIS IS MY NIGHTMARE ELO right here.

Titus · Post Post #2173 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:39 am

In post 2172, DrippingGoofball wrote:THIS IS MY NIGHTMARE ELO right here.

I don't see a good elo for you.

Shoot me ---> Math listens to my read on Wheme. Wheme relies on my Math read. (Arguably wheme sticks to his guns and votes Math here.)

Shoot math ---> I'm not voting Wheme as I trust T3's read. Wheme wasn't voting you but would struggle to vote me too. Iffy. Plus Math flips which makes your claim more awkward.

Shoot wheme ---> Play off my paranoia of math and game history.

In your place, I'd shoot me and fake a guilty on Math. That is a factor. It's not controlling as you have a decent argument.

In Mathblade's place, I might consider shooting me too.

The kill points a bit towards Math as well because Wheme never votes you. So why leave Wheme alive? Scum!DGB gains frame and pity points there.

You both gain something.

Titus · Post Post #2174 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:02 am

I am going to need detailed notes to clear my thoughts. My drives are not making this clearer. Whichever of you made a fake claim did a decent job. Each of you did a good job planting doubt on the other. If this was a bench trial in a criminal matter, you both would be acquitted as there is reasonable doubt. However, lylo is decided by the preponderance of the evidence standard. That requires a through review of all the evidence.