Newbie 2071: The Sandwich Debate - End!

[T3]

First, you and Grandpa would be the only ones who would notice the crumb because it was the exact same crumb Grandpa used in 2070. If I died then the other person would know. If scum realize this and don't kill me, then I am kept alive as basically cleared and scum potentially waste their roleblock. TSTBS doesn't apply here. I have my seperate reasons for scumreading both of you. No, withholding a read isn't scummy. I am crumbing doctor to both of you and what I did requires both of you to survive.Yes, I was hiding and planning in advance. I was planning to DIE.

Bruh -- I forgot you made this play. This was the main reasons I townread you. You played VERY well this game in relaying back the same meta that used against me to relay that you are town.

VOTE: T3

[GrandpaMo]

Too Town To Be Town?

T3 giv me ur reads rn

James is probably town but I can't say why.
Bulge is a tr. I'll metadive him at some point becauseI'm slightly paranoid.
You're vibes towny.
Everyone else I forgot about or is null.

I think T3 just townreads all town here.

I am looking at a possible bus day 1.

I know that I am town, James flipped town, and I was very strong on Bulge being town and their replacement is towny right now so...

[petapan]

I will need to Reeval VFP through this new replacement -- but T3 switching to vote this slot makes it weary for us.

a basic rule of mafia is that you should ignore literally everything done by outed scum, him moving his vote here is meaningless for my alignment either way. nothing t3 does from this point on means a single thing. i think his approach to vfp is lightly anti-partnery, but i'm of course biased

[GrandpaMo]

Cows in radiating townieness.

More proof that T3 just townread town.

[GrandpaMo]

I only flail as scum
Looker doesn't exist.
VFP is a consensus scumread.
LLD is kind of weirdly null.
cows is probably town.
hockey scum.
Grandpa and James I will not disclose.

Okay I conclude scum between Hockey / VFP.

[GrandpaMo]

I will need to Reeval VFP through this new replacement -- but T3 switching to vote this slot makes it weary for us.

a basic rule of mafia is that you should ignore literally everything done by outed scum, him moving his vote here is meaningless for my alignment either way. nothing t3 does from this point on means a single thing. i think his approach to vfp is lightly anti-partnery, but i'm of course biased

Yea I am just reading and analyzing T3's ISO.

[GrandpaMo]

And HockeyFan is town from the first page and it's not even close.

first time someone has Tr'd me so quickly

GrandpaMO and Rocky have town equity for their exchange on Page 4.

uh? what part of this interacton is town? Legit all that happend on page 3 is Rocky put a RVS vote on Gpa

Wait @LLD I forgot you had those reads, what made you change you again?

[GrandpaMo]

It doesnt change anything. LLD asked me who are the top 2 indivually scummy people(ppl i want to lim today). This does not mean they are PAIRED. Im just saying, T3 and Looker are my mafia reads and people and I want to lim(now that t3 is outed as mafia I MAY re-eval on looker, but no guarantees)

ok so now who u think t3 is mafia wit then ???

[Lady Lambdadelta]

your slot was claimed, Peta

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And HockeyFan is town from the first page and it's not even close.

first time someone has Tr'd me so quickly

GrandpaMO and Rocky have town equity for their exchange on Page 4.

uh? what part of this interacton is town? Legit all that happend on page 3 is Rocky put a RVS vote on Gpa

Wait @LLD I forgot you had those reads, what made you change you again?

I readjusted post day 1, with how the votes moved and came into day 2 looking at T3 and Hockey as my suspects.

And then their interactions early stunk to hgih hell. That's why I named them as my two.

Looker was Rocky?

Okay, so, like... I really REALLY think it's just one of VFP or Hockey now. Rocky was p. town.

[GrandpaMo]

And HockeyFan is town from the first page and it's not even close.

first time someone has Tr'd me so quickly

GrandpaMO and Rocky have town equity for their exchange on Page 4.

uh? what part of this interacton is town? Legit all that happend on page 3 is Rocky put a RVS vote on Gpa

Wait @LLD I forgot you had those reads, what made you change you again?

I readjusted post day 1, with how the votes moved and came into day 2 looking at T3 and Hockey as my suspects.

And then their interactions early stunk to hgih hell. That's why I named them as my two.

Looker was Rocky?

Okay, so, like... I really REALLY think it's just one of VFP or Hockey now. Rocky was p. town.

I was confused at first too, I thought rocky was someone else and strangematter was Looker -- but then I realized that came from the same slot lol.

Why was rocky town?

[GrandpaMo]

your slot was claimed, Peta

they never claimed...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VT
LLD'S turn.

I'll try and get on as and when but I'm pretty ill so don't expect much the next couple of days.

they claimed here

[Lady Lambdadelta]

they were the first ones to claim, since I said I wanted the popcorn started with them, and they popcorned to me first

[HockeyFan]

It doesnt change anything. LLD asked me who are the top 2 indivually scummy people(ppl i want to lim today). This does not mean they are PAIRED. Im just saying, T3 and Looker are my mafia reads and people and I want to lim(now that t3 is outed as mafia I MAY re-eval on looker, but no guarantees)

ok so now who u think t3 is mafia wit then ???

Okay, so the only person I dont think T3 is paired with is VFP(peta in this case). This leaves Gpa/LLD/Looker. Out of these 3, Grandpa IS the towniest right now which means through POE, t3's partner is one of LLD/Looker

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It doesnt change anything. LLD asked me who are the top 2 indivually scummy people(ppl i want to lim today). This does not mean they are PAIRED. Im just saying, T3 and Looker are my mafia reads and people and I want to lim(now that t3 is outed as mafia I MAY re-eval on looker, but no guarantees)

ok so now who u think t3 is mafia wit then ???

Okay, so the only person I dont think T3 is paired with is VFP(peta in this case). This leaves Gpa/LLD/Looker. Out of these 3, Grandpa IS the towniest right now which means through POE, t3's partner is one of LLD/Looker

Right, so your logic is that scum T3 spent all yesterday discrediting me about Meta, then shoots cows, someone I called scum and was possibly in line to Eliminate via votes, then comes into today calling me into question AGAIN

and then I as his partner call for a mass claim and organize it to get to this result

So if I was scum with T3 I would need to have

agreed to a kill on a target that I was okay to eliminate by vote and would probabyl have succeeded at doing
agreed to T3 doing a sabotage on my credibility as I replaced in and lessening my possible control over the game
and agreed to T3 doing it again today, only to call for a massclaim that increased our win percent by quite a bit?

I'd love for you to explain how T3 and I can be scum together.

[petapan]

your slot was claimed, Peta

lol, whoops, i had thought so but in the moment i was like "ok w/e"

[petapan]

Cows in radiating townieness.

More proof that T3 just townread town.

I only flail as scum
Looker doesn't exist.
VFP is a consensus scumread.
LLD is kind of weirdly null.
cows is probably town.
hockey scum.
Grandpa and James I will not disclose.

Okay I conclude scum between Hockey / VFP.

for what it's worth, i think this is a valid heuristic, from what i've seen T3 is stupidly bus-happy/tends to TMI players as town (one of the advantages of him overgaming at a rate that even noraa would think is excessive is there's a lot of meta to draw on), and in general most players are afraid to hard townread their partners as scum, but you can't just use single posts for this sort of analysis, you need to loo more at how he was approaching people through the course of the game, whether he was just trying to get a player on his side or if he was putting suspicion on someone but avoiding actually working to eliminate them.

and saying all that, of course, i still more or less agree with your conclusion anyway, this is just a theory-based point i wanted to put out there.

[petapan]

Spoiler:

Hello everyone!
Hello random mafia.gg people!
Hello to my scumpartner fferry!

fuck u rolled scum like u did in 2068 didnt u

Too Town To Be Town?

T3 giv me ur reads rn

James is probably town but I can't say why.
Bulge is a tr. I'll metadive him at some point becauseI'm slightly paranoid.
You're vibes towny.
Everyone else I forgot about or is null.

ffs.

u did the same shit in ur scum game

am i gonna get pocketed

WAIT

"I know your allignment and I know yours"

LOL rlly used that to say i scumslipped in our game, and then get limmed the next day lmao

Should we lim T3 here?

its either that, you, or rocky.

rocky is worse than t3 idk why cows is townreading them lol

Oh yeah Grandpa is locktown.

ok yea im not fucking taking chances here last time u did this u pocketed me

VOTE: t3

*this is like a half meme/half serious vote*

Oh yeah Grandpa is locktown.

ok yea im not fucking taking chances here last time u did this u pocketed me

VOTE: t3

*this is like a half meme/half serious vote*

Okay so since this is a "semi-serious" vote, u better be ACTUALLY pushing it smfh. Dont just leave your vote there as a chance to bw/sheep others. Also how many votes is that on t3 rn? 3? like wtf is going on lmao

t3 has like 1 vote from rvs what

theres been 3 votes on t3? holy fuck where have i been

theres been 3 votes on t3? holy fuck where have i been

ok well not 3 votes, but 3 ppl are currently pushing this slot(cows,you and VFP), still super ???

cows is pushing me lol and puts me scum wit t3 lol

and its weird that i scum read vfp

wait

my vote pool is literally vfp, t3, and rocky

Its NAI cuz I dont think scum posts smth like that early into the game. Likewise, theres no reason for any VT to claim their role d1 so its not something town should do, so imo its NAI

...how is this not the same thing as 'tstbs' tho? you're saying you don't think scum would post something anti-town so early, which is the exact same thought process as tstbs.

because its full null, I also think town has 0 reason to do this. This is different than tstbs, because if u think they're "tstsbs" you SR them in some sort already which I didnt do

'tstbs' implies a townread.

Once again, I never said "tstbs"

Oh yeah Grandpa is locktown.

ok yea im not fucking taking chances here last time u did this u pocketed me

VOTE: t3

*this is like a half meme/half serious vote*

Okay so since this is a "semi-serious" vote, u better be ACTUALLY pushing it smfh. Dont just leave your vote there as a chance to bw/sheep others. Also how many votes is that on t3 rn? 3? like wtf is going on lmao

theres been 3 votes on t3? holy fuck where have i been

ok well not 3 votes, but 3 ppl are currently pushing this slot(cows,you and VFP), still super ???

I dont understand what the big deal here is? what is so shocking to you about a wagon of 3?

That early into the game is shocking especally when T3 hadnt done anything scummy in eyes

I think I scumread T3 based on meta.

I have bias because everytime T3 calls me town out of the blue with no reasoning, they end up flipping scum. So anytime, I hear those words coming out the mouth -- I get paranio. I usually don't end up voting them until probably day 2.

Bringing back to the point, you said earlier that you didn't why Rocky was scum. I will explain why I think rocky is scum.

They have 15 posts which is fine, but till post 61

I don't know if they were serious with that vote, but I will assume they were meming. They continue to meme.

They finally make a serious read in post 117 which was the WIFOMY thing James said about them claiming to be VT... which is something weird to go into especially considering it being the first genuine read.

In post 220 I actually asked for rocky for their reads (I bring this up because you claim I haven't questioned rocky but I have, rocky just had never replied because their last post is post 164)

They unvote without any reasoning.

I do want to point out that I did agree with rocky in post 164, which is something Rocky could be town for but idk if it's a strong enough reason to call them town.

I haven't voted them yet, because I am still waiting them to come back and give me an updated readlist.

I am also waiting on Beezeburger.

Grandpa. vc. Actually though...

gotcha ur town

ok i think the 2 scum lies in

vfp, rockey, beeze, and maybe t3

t3 vc*

James seriously, vc.

yea lol

ur town i think.

indeliberate mason buddy

Everything in his ISO

but you know t3 acts like this both as town and scum.

why are you driving a bw on t3 on NAI things, respectfully you seen me do the same thing in my aliensitter needed game, that was the whole reason i pushed t3 instead of bussing there

SCUM VFP likes to pocket me and then flip on it later game.

lol why tf are you using the same exact thing as what i do....

LOL

i pointed this out in early day 1 intereaction by saying thew same exact thing t3

I'm confident the 2 scum are in [T3, The Bulge, Looker].

heavy disagree, both t3 and bulge have been respectuflly townie.

mostly bulge tho, i feel like they aree playing like me, they are wanting a flip, and have had the same thoughts as me before.

ok lol this interaction makes me wanna say something...

tldr; t3 + james are both tvt, if i had to choose at least 1 scum between james is the vote.

but nah nor t3 or james are scum here. ill explain when i get back from work, i think i will have time around 10:30 pm est, oh thats like 1 hour before deadline

hmmm.

im not moving my move honestly.

i dont think scum!t3 claims vt here after crumbing doc. i do confirm that t3 was crumbing to me. and was crumbing to james as an inside joke referring to "vc" which is something i did last game we were together.

i think t3 would just claim doc, there is no reason for scum!t3 to claim vt unless using it for wifom.

james not understanding this, is very weird. i actually do now think there is scum between vfp + james if t3 flips town.

i would actually vote vfp instead of james because of something which i wont disclose yet

i will post more game analysis when i come back but i have to go!!!

t3 is town!!!!

The thing is T3, you plausibly are town here.
But it's too late in the day for me to start a fresh wagon on someone, considering I don't like any of the other wagons.

I'm going to stop the current spam with two last questions, there's no chance T3 will answer either really.

Why would doctor crumb so obviously?

Everybody and their grandmother would realise it's fake.

Secondly what is stopping you from playing differently on purpose, you in your eyes always do X as town, what's stopping you, as Scum, from doing X then claiming you're town?

VFP crumbs waaaaay better than you, T3
i have a few more thoughts but let me switch to PC i just woke up

Regarding this whole T3 whole crumb thing, the actual crumb isnt scummy but SOLELY using that to towncase yourself is scummy. T3 has been like "oh look i fake breadcrumbed doctor, im town". James not budging and continuing to push T3 which gives me more reason to TR james

also look at this hostile passive aggressive pushing from 4 of the players against t3. lol

okay, so, this is a massive unsorted quotedump from grandpamo about T3. while the progression here on a surface level is maybe not the best - i think this is probably not the approach grandpamo takes with a teammate, distancing early and pressuring him only to pull a full reversal and go into full-out defense when t3 was potentially a candidate for elimination. most players tend to take the path of least resistance and bus when their teammate is in danger. i also think, in more general terms, the way grandpamo is responding to t3 here looks authentic, for the most part. stuff like 269 and 573 feels tonally good, i lean toward that stuff being genuine.

i think 811 here though is a strong indicator of grandpa-town, though. the fact that t3 crumbed doctor specifically to grandpamo was very likely an attempt to pocket him and get him to stop scumreading t3. while it's super weird that grandpa did not somehow find him claiming vt instead scummy, i just don't think this is an interaction that happens between partners here. it's too specific and odd, and while that kind of thing can be faked, i find it incredibly unlikely they would try to do so in a newbie game, because it is

very unlikely

most players in the game would read into that sort of thing and see it as unaligned. i think it's the simpler answer: T3 didn't want grandpa pushing him, but didn't want to push back, so he fake-crumbed to try to escape the pressure and grandpa got pocketed by it.

[petapan]

Spoiler:

Too Town To Be Town?

T3 giv me ur reads rn

James is probably town but I can't say why.
Bulge is a tr. I'll metadive him at some point becauseI'm slightly paranoid.
You're vibes towny.
Everyone else I forgot about or is null.

Oh yeah Grandpa is locktown.

SCUM VFP likes to pocket me and then flip on it later game.

lol why tf are you using the same exact thing as what i do....

LOL

i pointed this out in early day 1 intereaction by saying thew same exact thing t3

I didn't see it

maybe because of the 60 line walls

Nugget of wisdom: Don't lim Grandpa or James today. f

I hardclaim VT. I've been hard crumbing doctor to James and Grandpa this entire time to see if I could bait the nightkill. If I survived, either the setup is 2 goons or they are both town. Grandpa acknowledged it. There is literally no way James didn't notice the crumb. I must have crumbed it 5+ times. James and VFP literally have so much scum equity.

First, you and Grandpa would be the only ones who would notice the crumb because it was the exact same crumb Grandpa used in 2070. If I died then the other person would know. If scum realize this and don't kill me, then I am kept alive as basically cleared and scum potentially waste their roleblock. TSTBS doesn't apply here. I have my seperate reasons for scumreading both of you. No, withholding a read isn't scummy. I am crumbing doctor to both of you and what I did requires both of you to survive.Yes, I was hiding and planning in advance. I was planning to DIE.

Also, if I'm scum fake crumbing doctor for later isn't one crumb that I can refer to enough? I was trying to make it really, really obvious to you/Grandpa.

What makes T3 on your radar as scum right now?

he has not done anythign towny. Also fwiw, the whole T3/VFP thing is only something i am going to pay attention on d1 most likely. I said in 719 that i think town should shift away from it a bit but since no one budged, i got back on it as we got closer to deadline. Stop assuming that I am going to sus ONLY these 2 the whole gmae

If I give some names, can you tell me what these players have done that is towny? And where the bar is currently at?

Looker
Grampa
LLD
Clasko

Any order is fine.

Grandpa is towny. What his posts look like and the frequency of them are similar but I find Townpa to be open minded and Scumpa to tunnel limbait town.

Clasko - Conftown
Grandpa - Townread

Everyone else: everyone else

VFP's switch at the end of yesterday I is towny.

Now, taking the same approach, looking at this from T3's end...again, the bad underexplained townread he's super insistent on for grandpamo is just far more likely to be on town than on a partner, particularly in response to grandpamo scumreading him early - it looks like an attempt to placate him. the whole nonsense about him fake-crumbing is not the type of distancing i'd expect from partners in a newbie game. i think grandpamo is just town off of t3 interactions.

[petapan]

Cows in radiating townieness.

For any other reason than them townreading you?

Strange's enterance felt tonally off but other than that fine and cows seems to agree.

Look looker, I know you rolled scum. Please confess?

I only flail as scum
Looker doesn't exist.
VFP is a consensus scumread.
LLD is kind of weirdly null.
cows is probably town.
hockey scum.
Grandpa and James I will not disclose.

Clasko - Conftown
Grandpa - Townread

Everyone else: everyone else

VFP's switch at the end of yesterday I is towny.

Ffs, why do I actually like this post from T3. is t3 actually town? What a world.

What can I say?

My PoE is Looker, you, and maybe LLD?
But because you're pushing looker you're probably not aligned.

VOTE: Looker
PoE.

so, like, not going to go into as much detail here, because the looker slot is a revolving door, and none of them have had a ton of content to work off of, there's nothing i find particularly telling. in a vacuum, i couldn't tell you what that slot would flip. but T3 coming into the day with that being his primary push has me thinking it's probably a misflip he thought he could get. i'm not super confident on this one.


looker's iso does give me gut town vibes off it, but not really at a bet the game level of strength, don't want to go into detail on what's a very slight read.

[petapan]

i think t3 is town

*opens pocket seams wider and more invitingly*

Happily jumps in

pedit:

serious read tho

Any explanation?

he hasn't done anything scummy

What has he done that is townie?

That's not part of the T3 package.

now, i don't know how the bulge plays as scum, haven't seen him do it, don't know what his typical behavior toward partners is. read here obviously wasn't good, but i feel like it's way more overtly buddy-buddy and friendly than i'd expect him to act with a partner in a newbie game? i would expect more caution in that regard, out of fear a newbie sees them as a team because of that.

this, of course, is slight, because it's only a few posts and otherwise bulge didn't comment much about t3.

Do I let myself get pocketed by bulge and then lose in elo? The answer is, I hope not.

Too Town To Be Town?

T3 giv me ur reads rn

James is probably town but I can't say why.
Bulge is a tr. I'll metadive him at some point becauseI'm slightly paranoid.
You're vibes towny.
Everyone else I forgot about or is null.

I can't say why bc of ongoing games but I

think

Bulge is almost certainly town.

from t3's side, the early comment toward bulge, followed by the reciprocal townread that seems to be because bulge was townreading him, doesn't really feel partnery, plus he uses the gross fake angleshoot read in defense of bulge - i think that's a read manufactured for the sake of looking town, rather than a meaningful defense of bulge, because he's preventing himself from being able to elaborate on it - that type of read won't likely convince anyone to not vote bulge, but it does try to look like t3 has real thoughts about the game and is contrasting it with a different game.

[petapan]

VOTE: lld
This feels similar to Yggdrasil when LLD was scum in the sense that she's trying to control the game. I disagree with her James read and she's trying to pocket hockey.

I always try and control the game regardless of alignment.

By the way, for the person who was talking about NAI things: This is an example of the proper time to use NAI. When someone is describing a playstyle uniformity.

I'm sure there's some minor differences in how I approach my game control between town and scum but I am also a player who actively changes her meta game to game on purpose so, it's a bit hard to describe I think.

Regardless, this is the proper use for NAI. Controlling a game is not an action done more frequently as scum than town.

Also, I'd call into question how exactly I'm controlling the game when I have yet to place a vote, and am currently catching up. In what way am I controlling a game when I'm not even pushing a wagon yet?

Can you please explain to me? I need to determine your sincerity in making this argument to read you.

Like, to be clear, I was eventually going to push to lead from the front because that's how I play, but as of yet I've not done this.

So what is interesting to me is that you've decided to take this line of attack with me despite me having done nothing that could be considered controlling as of yet this game. All I've done is give reads, explain reads and begin a catchup that I have yet to finish.

So your argument is not only fallicious to begin with, wrt to my desire to lead being scum indicative for me, but it's also feeling very fabricated, because there's simply no example of my posting which contains anything controlling as of yet.

So again, I want to be clear: What parts of my posting are similar to Yggdrasil, and in what way are they? And more to that point, what makes those parts contorlling?

Oh boy, time to read the game, find the scum team day 1, lead a scum elimination and get shot at night

let's go

This is you outright implying it, and the tone of your posts seems authoritative and weird.

It's a newbie game, and I don't play them for a reason. The one and only time I played one, I replaced in, called both scum and got shot night 1 after voting out a scum day 1.

Plus, it's a good vibe to bring into a game.

lld isn't a player to make a hasty judgment off interactions with scum, but i dunno, response to t3 here feels good, not theatrical at a glance, i'd assume if she got in the game and T3 started bussing unnecessarily she'd tell him to knock that shit off in the scum PT, but maybe...forces less pressure back on t3 here? or if she was questioning him as her partner here, she'd be aiming to make him look more town as a result. doesn't feel that way but that's just a guess. not spending a ton of time on this but wanted to get my thinking out in the open before i moved on.

[fferyllt]

et

[fferyllt]

allez