Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Ydrasse]

hmm

i guess to me i have ~familiarity~ with hectic and it’s like

it’s not as bombastic as i think he’d be when i think of “things hectic likes to write story wise” maybe he wants to blend in but it’s also bastard to have a mod helping the scum team

[Ydrasse]

is isis playing them both LOL

[Chara]

yin feels like roleplaying hectic to me, like it would make sense if yang is isis considering the two of them made the setup? and the call for backup mod was made after the setup was finished, *and* it asked only for vc's? unless i'm mixing something up, idk i don't feel like going back to check that

this is a good point if it's accurate. but i'd think Ydrasse would be able to recognize Hectic's writing somewhat.

i know it doesn't really matter, but Yin

is

still here and still answering questions. i doubt asking if he's scum will get a different answer than asking if he's a criminal but i dunno.

[Morning Tweet]

I thought I noticed some of Hectics writing mannerisms in Yin but i agree he's more serious abt it than usual if so

[Ydrasse]

i’ll go... ask him

[Chara]

LMAO

[Chara]

Yin definitely isn't Isis. i'm... 95% sure.

[Ydrasse]

maybe i’m wrong and it is hectic but i just don’t get the “i am most inspired by undertale and lighthearted stories with good humor” feeling from him

i know he can be serious and maybe i’m not giving him credit but idk

[Tanner]

Guess I'm kinder than you.

probably.

Spoiler: but mama, i'm in love with a criminal

fLEA VOTE scum rn

VOTE: Tanner

that's wrong. she said vote

scum

, silly!

in all seriousness, i am interested in the thoughts behind this take.

Looking back at this I'm cracking up.
A joke vote in response to a joke post and the initial waves of worry are crashing out.

"tanner? asked someone about their read on him?? while trying to get out of rvs??? scum"

Something spikey...
something asking about an agenda...
asking about how serious a vote is.

All entirely different from what just happened here.
You didn't ask, did you?
You mused, pondered and expressed. But didn't ask. In all the examples, you ask.
Oh sorry, the first one you were insistant. My bad.
NEEEXT.

we gotta be playing semantics now?

Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

was there a point to asking this?

slight town ping on robert, mostly because his intro gives me a vibe similar to my own. ircher feels tonally scummy but i'm not too interested in pushing that right now. if anyone who's town on ydrasse could let me know why, that would be cool.

hmm.

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

(the first person to say "wow, are you scum trying to townslip???" is getting slapped. alright thanks.)

The self-awareness is real.

oh gee oh boy self-awareness. the fucking self awareness. never heard that one before, i definitely didn't have an entire case written out on town!me in TM because of my jokey self-awareness. (second part of the post.)

Oh look more meta defence.
Self-awareness is something I have, and I'm familiar with.
The difference is in how its utilised and managed.
You outright cover your tracks here.
I'm aware I look scummy af in this game.
Difference is, I don't care.

that's not relevant? we're not the same person? you don't care how you come off as, good for you. that's not my point. my point is that the "self-awareness" isn't scummy for me. you turning around to scream "well i am town, and i don't care how i come off, therefore you're scum because you do" doesn't... prove anything?

Tanner: your early game kind of pinged, though 192 reminds me of... i want to say Chara's Folly Tanner? but it occurs to me i don't think i read the end of that game and i don't remember if you were scum.

my early game is weak (i cannot find my way around prolonged fluff posting / rvs, though that is nai as both scum! and town!me are awkward as hell there), so that's not surprising. and i was town in chara's folly.

And yet what you've given so far sounds so confident and active, at least on a surface level.

yes. my early game is weak in a sense that i struggle appearing town if the game is full of joking and has no ai material, and my reads suffer as a consequence too. but i will present them with confidence anyway, there is no reason not to.

Then make AI material. You've given me links above showing you trying to break RVS, so you clearly know what you're doing there.

i did make ai material. i'd argue that fight with robert was very decent ai material >_>

1. awkward joke trying to get Ydrasse to talk about scum!norwee.
2. challenging Pooky's town read on a player because it's a bit early.
3. prompting and encouraging Satoru to talk about a scum read on Flea.

1. it was not a joke. i thought ydrasse's early vote on norwee was serious (at least as much as an early vote like that can be). when she told me she wouldn't seriously vote norwee for the reason she gave, i just told her i didn't know that.
2. what pooky said - this is a datisi alt. (though i kinda wished to not have it mentioned that fast...)
3. yeah. i was getting scumpings on flea. i wanted to talk about it with another player who said they got the same pings.

Three things meant to erode town reads and promote scum reads, because there's nothing that scum hates more than townies with under-developped scum reads on other townies, and strong town reads on townies.

If Tanner flips scum, then Norwee is town, Datisi is town, and Flea is town.

i mean, 1. is saying i didn't know how ydrasse reads norwee, and 2. is eroding a townread on myself... and even if the 3. were correct, i'm literally just talking about a ping i got. and considering i did out some townpings earlier (and one of them was on *you*, so from your pov you'd surely know it can't be scum!me being an idiot just townreading partners and scumreading all townies), this feels confbiased, if not intentionally malicious.

my early game is weak

Pre-emptive excuse for future scummy play.

...it's the exact opposite? like i'm saying "i struggle in early game when it's mostly rvs, but when the game gets serious, i'll get more townie as i'll actually have something to work with". that's not a pre-emptive excuse for my future scummy play, it's setting expectations for my future townie play.

i don't like these posts from robert. i can understand some early scumreads on myself (i'll be first to tell you i have not gotten into the game yet), but both 251 and 253 feel like throwing shit and seeing what sticks. the "future excuse for scummy play" line legitimately makes no sense. also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Then we got this which fucking lol's at it. Even the acknowledgement alone in here is amazing.

? what are you even talking about here?

This is early game content. Quite strong early game content.
But you're not good early game.
This is probably more a semantics misfire between two people, to be fair.

"not good early game" = "i'll struggle while the game is in full-blown shitpost mode". once robert attacked me... it was not early game anymore. though i'll agree this is semantics.

happi scumday hectic

I like Norwe Robert and Infy

maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dune too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

By my count....... four.

so this would imply yin knows how many of us are criminals here? though can't know he's including himself (or yang) in that, and whether he would lie about it. hm.

the cumulus fact does not seem right, but i don't know enough about meteorology to confidently say it's incorrect.

from my 30-second google search, i'd say that it is incorrect. is there any point to even talking with these two?

i just realized

I don't know who the mafia are.

There's no reason to believe there are mafia in this game, yet. the only distinction Yang has made between good and evil is that goats are baddies and llamas are presumably the opposite

Although, I suppose Yang still told us that Yin is the one who will tell us how to spot the difference. And Yang being able to freely post does support uninformed. Something about the use of "mafia" is irking me though cause i dont think any Silent Star has had mafia in it.

if we're sure that yang is isis (i'm Not Good at alt hunting), then i'm sure yang would at least know the flavour name of the scumteam, considering isis was a reviewer of this game.

also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Who did Robert think Datisi was in the first place?

considering he thought i was trashing town!pooky's townread on town!datisi... i guess he thought a different player?

Setting up the Yin discredit already.

"tanner didn't take everything that yin said as gospel? scum"

Tanner didn't even entertain an obvious mechanic THAT IS IN THE GAMES TITLE and was attempting to discredit said mechanic before it even got in full flow. That's the scummy bit.

i did entertain it. that's why i was interacting with yin and asking him about how many criminals are there and who they are and etc. i just took it as "information that might become useful later in the game, once we figure out who yin is and what he wants", rather than "this is something to be followed because hectic and isis would design a mafia game based on the 20 questions game".

Spoiler: and this type of love isn't rational, it's physical

VOTE: robert

those posts on me were just bad. i can kind of excuse 251 if i squint, considering he didn't know whose alt this is (but also not really because point 1. is still awful), but the stretch of "tanner is excusing his future play!!" and the fact he's shown zero nuance in thinking about his read on me after learning that some of his points were moot... yeah no.

flea is currently next on my list. i got excited seeing 319, thinking it's actually gonna be a game related catch-up, and instead it was just... mech filler. faer only real read so far has been "tanner gut"... not vibing.

other people that i dislike so far are ydrasse and amy dunne - for kind of similar reasons i guess? ydrasse has still not really Done anything, and Amy's posts seem to be forced posting for the sake of posting.

(i can already hear robert typing how i'm blocking townread on a lot of people - yes, i am. these people aren't being townie. they deserve to get called out.)

norwee and tweetie seem like they're not internally screaming when they're posting, so i'll call those a townlean. pooky is not giving me evil vibes for once, and i don't know what that means, but i'm running with it for now. also ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too. i think everyone else is too close to the null line to go one way or the other for me.

This is beautiful. Daitsi knows how deep my catchups can go, and knows my catchup style is either intermittent post, or wall'o'fluff. Also note the "mech filler" comment.
I'm pretty sure Daitsi also knows how I can utilise mech, hell I turned a loyal 1-shot neighbouriser into a 1-shot cop AND left enough crumbs to build the witches house previously. (Still proud of that, Pooky you should remember that too seeing as it was your slot I damned. )
The other thing I like about this post, is the misyeet setups happening here.
I'm town, so is Ydrasse and Amy. "For similar reasons". I'm mech fluffing, Ydrasse "has not really done anything" and Amys posts are posted for the sake of posting.
There is not any scum mentioned in this post. Either confirmed or mech'd. Bearing in mind Nakata and Infinity were both lurking it out and I don't recall Chara being the most active either.

ok first of all, the fact that you don't even know how to spell my name shows how much you actually know about me. but anyway - i don't know you. within the mafia side of things, i have had *one* interaction with you, modding a game when you were on an alt. a game that you were town in which was a scum sweep, so forgive me if my impression of your play from that one encounter isn't the best. i've forgotten most of the details from that game (fuck was it boring) so i have no clue what your attempts at mech were there, and i haven't read any of your games otherwise. so no, i have no clue how you utilize mech nor do i care, judging by this game your mechplay is godawful. (if you're town.)

THE MISYEETS SETUPS. in a game that turned out to have the opposite alignment wincons. i'm getting shit on for scumreading town and not trying to get scum yeeted. how much of a brainfart did you have at this part?

I was sure we'd interacted more. That game is my only loss on that account... sad times.
Honestly I'm still recovering from heat exaustion and the brainfarts are stinky. I admit I'm tunnelled.
This still stinks of deepwolf setup, honestly.

in the realm of mafia, we hadn't.

and lol. "tanner is pushing town and not trying to get scum yeeted!"
"but this game turned out to have opposite wincons and that's accidentally the most pro-town thing i could've been doing..."
"...deepwolf setup!!!"

like i'm not even gonna pretend to scumread you for this point, because we've all seen townies blinded by confbias before, it's just hilarious.

ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too.

Inactivity makes you townlean them? Why?

it's not inactivity, it's the random pop-ins, giving his thoughts, then fucking off and not sweating about the pressure on him. i will admit that i don't actually know whether that's +town for ircher, but as said - in the absence of people acting townie, i'm fine going for a weaker reason to townlean someone.

pedit: i didn't mean just from today. random pop-ins to give his thoughts (213, 258) while not caring about the wagon/pressure on him strikes me as somewhat more likely to come from town.

"people aren't acting townie so amma pull reads outta my butt."

OK not as bad as I'm making out, but ya know, subtle signs are as important as the big ones.

yes. i said it before (let me know if you care about me digging through, i'd guess you don't) i'll say it again, i need anchors in this game. i need *some* reads to orient myself around. if the whole game is acting weird? yeah my standards are gonna lower.

No... no you don't. You have a baseline. if people don't meet that baseline, scumread the lot of them. No mercy.

pls. stop telling me how i play. u r rong. i need anchors. baseline is flexible. if everyone is being acummy or null, baseline goes down.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

Gone from "You absolutely should not yeet me." to "Just fucking yeet me and get me out of the game".

So far this stinks of a desperate and deepwolf setup.

??? what? if this is saying that i wanted to get yeeted earlier - no i didn't? that post is obviously saying that i don't? nowhere in Stage One did i say to yeet me??

if this is saying that i wanna get yeeted in Stage Two... yes???

Love your ignorance here. It's cute.
You are so assured in that you are town, and your ability as town... that you are apparently 100% vital to the town wincon.
Remind me again who's wincondition you're playing to?

yeah, i didn't get what you were trying to say. i'm not "vital" to the town wincon. but i can recognize that (at least in a game with normal wincons):
- yeeting town sets back the town wincon.
- i am town.
- therefore, yeeting me sets back the town wincon.

apply "furthers" instead of "sets back" for the silent star wincon. like i'm not instrumental to shit. but i can recognize that my yeet would set back or help my faction. i'm gonna express that.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

I thought you meant not getting NK'ed.
But you was saying you didn't want to get limmed?

yeah, my "i need help not getting killed" in 341 was referencing the fact i had a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on me at one time, and that i don't wish to eat the yeet. i will neither confirm nor deny whether i want to die by nightkill.

in fairness, context was based around eliminations. but like he said, a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on him. He wasn't even half way to yeet, so why the survivalist attitude? Because the deepwolf setup is failing a little, maybe?

tanner made a joke about not wanting to get killed because he had a moderate amount of votes on him??? scum????

Tanner made a not-joke to a not-joke response to a not-joke answer.
not a joke. Just a bad smell....

so... "i can't attack the survivalist attitude anymore, so i will throw baseless shade"? got it.

Spoiler: mama, please don't cry, i will be alright

yin

, are you a criminal?

i'm not sure if there's a point asking this, considering we don't know if he's telling the truth either way, but that then goes for all questions, sooo.

Hey look another mech discredit attempt.

didn't.. take yin.... as gospel?? scu m ?

Tanner... mechanic... bullshit.... O.O
Also thank fuck for Ditto.

yep.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

hmmm....

is there a meaning behind this "hmmm"?

Amy is officially a townlean now.

was this caused by 389/390? if so, what gave you a townlean?

for the record, amy is giving me a townie vibe as well, but i can't put my finger on it.

i kiiinda wanna townlean ydrasse for 407? i have no idea what happened in ms rpg, but i've been getting the feeling that infinity sounds "...?" too. though i'm not exactly the best at reading infinity myself so /shrug. by the time i finished reading, the "...?" feeling on infinity has disappeared and has been replaced with "yeah ok i have no clue how to read her i will just ignore her for now and hope someone else does", but i'll keep that townlean on ydra.

i am

not

getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

ok friends are calling me, i got to go so i will finish the rest of this a bit quicker - liking tweetie's posts bc energy but also not really worrying about her as she's one of my "will probably stop being so townie later if scum" reads, and i'm also liking chara for ??? reasons idk i'm probably playing with fire here, i've heard spicy things about its scumgame ok cool bye

The defensive strikes again. Almost like my rep proceeds me. Tanners already rattled I got the sus on him.

literally all i did was ask how you're reading me

god forbid i ask someone why they scumread me to try to read them

and again - the only reputation of you i know is you playing town in a game that ended up being a scum roflstomp. so get off your high horse please.

Still rattled you though didn't I?
And no I wont, my god complex is kicking in and frankly trying to stop that is like trying to stop a speeding train with ya pinky.
It's a toxic behaviour I know, I try and focus it elsewhere when I can.

Oh and is that a bad link? Because it seems irrelevant to the matter.

yeah, people thinking they're hot shit and calling me scum for reasons that clearly do not make me scum rattle me. you got me.

it feels relevant enough to me. i've got scumread for "acting nervous" or "asking people about their scumreads". it's nai. and pretending it's not is... not a good look.

i am not getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

actually before i go, i just remembered that is a lie, he did fool me once. but also i'm still not getting any townie pings from him this game so take it as you will.

Literally just sus of everyone lol.

"tanner's townread on ircher is bad therefore he's scum"
"but also tanner's scumreading everyone therefore he's scum"
do you hear yourself?

Myself and others, yes. Why?
thing here is it's inconsistant with the rest of your play, you say your bars been lowered, here it hasn't.

"clidd didn't give me townie pings" and "ircher gave me weird, moonlogic townie pings" can coexist. if i lower the bar for townpings, i'm not gonna townread someone for the utter lack of townpings - i'll just be a bit more creative in finding the townpings.

It would be interesting for us to discuss your read on Robert when you have time. Something tells me he's someone like ''town acting erratic/sporadic'' but not ''scum planning a push''.

it's 2am and i have a headache (an actual one, not related to this game) so i'll likely sleep soon, but i'm not sure i've got anything to say here that i've not already said. his points on me just felt really reachy. and while i know that is not necessarily scum!indicative of itself, the fact that he froze and stopped posting once he found out one of his points is moot, as opposed to started re-evaluating his push... i don't like it. it's not a slam dunk case in any way (and i'm not pretending it is), but it's the best i got so far.

i noticed you started off saying he's scumpinging you, then later on you said you don't vibe with his wagon - have you explained what changed your mind here?

Scumreading someone but not vibing with the wagon are two very different things. You can solidly scumread someone and not vibe with the wagon. How else do you find associatives?

okay? even if so, why do you have such a problem with me asking clidd for an update on his reads?

Who said there was a problem with the asking?
The phrasing around it is what I'm drawing on.

okay, sure. i can agree that you can both scumread someone and not like their wagon. *however*, my question to clidd was in response to his 423.

where he clearly said that he suddenly thinks robert is town rather than scum, and that is why he doesn't vibe with the wagon.

so i don't see what's the problem with my question?

@Tanner

Initially he pinged me as scummy, but after I started theorizing about his course of action in a scum!Robert scenario, it didn't make much sense that he specifically selected you to push, mostly because of the cost-benefit.

He attracted a lot of attention to himself and ignored your town ping on him to go into a 1v1. If you were the one who went to him first, it would make more sense for scum!him to respond appropriately with a scumread, but he was the one who went after you and started the conflict, which is why I don't see a plausible *scum motivation* in his actions (and made me reconsider the initial impression on him).

i don't really see the issue with cost-benefit - at the time of his push, i was a relatively popular scumread, having a few votes on me and not having gotten into the game yet. so not like my "vague townping on robert" was worth much of anything or like he had much to lose there. besides, he's not familiar with my game, i wouldn't say it's unlikely that scum!him thought i was a relatively easy townie to push, not being aware that a shitpush on my slot is exactly what i needed to wake up.

Freeze after lighting a spark between the two of you would also be terrible for his credibility. Would scum!Robert just not care about that?

i don't think it's an issue of not caring, i think it's an issue of not *knowing* how to respond to the new information because he was hoping his push on me would be enough to show that he's solving, at least for the time being. like, look at his recent posts, does this look like a townie who's genuinely evaluating the game:

Why did Robert think Datisi was in the game and which player?
This seems like something we should really know.

I don't know any Datisi, Pooky brought something up about a Datisi and I I get this, Datisi and Tanner are the same player?

well first of all, this is a lie, you played in a game i modded, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've genuinely forgotten about me - the second part still feels off. it has been confirmed multiple times, by me as well, that this is an alt of datisi. again, one of the major points about why i'm scum (shutting down townreads of other people) has been showed to be moot (as i was shutting down a townread of myself), and there's no explanation or response from him, just more playing dumb. he's obviously not bothering to even *read* my response to him.

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

this also makes no sense. like, unless this is trying to say that i'm scum, and i panicked, and i told all my scumbuddies to immediately dogpile on robert... what is this even supposed to mean?

I didn't like this when i saw it, honestly.
Strawmanning. "Everyone wants me limmed so I'm on to something here" does not equate the implication that you, a known mafia veteran, would panick and ask your buddies to dogpile. Given your buddies are Nakata, Infy and Chara, they all know better anyway. This is a BAD reaction.

what? "everyone wants me limmed so i'm correct" pretty much implies that scum wants him limmed because he's correct (because surely it doesn't imply that town, who has no idea who is who, would magically want him limmed for having a correct read). even if he didn't think that it was me specifically who told my team to pile on, it still shows the thinking of "scum is piling on me".

There's means and ways to secure a "panic" elimination. Now admittedly this is an inverse objective game, but gotta keep up appearances, right?

i'm just pointing out that i don't get why you're calling it strawmanning when i don't see how else to interpret robert's claim.

Spoiler: all reason aside

Seriously? Clidd is probably my strongest tr so far.

good for you, was there a point in posting this? (also, please don't quote full wallposts if you're gonna respond to one line. highlight the relevant part, then quote.)

I think Robert’s probably town. Town!TSE made a very similar kind of slip in a game he was in.

for one, robert is (probably) not tse, but do you maybe want to link this?

The mechanics And purpose behind the Yin and Yang players aren’t clear enough for me to just blindly assume something like there has to be scum in me/Chara/Pooky just because of something Yin said.

+1. yin said he's a thief. until we have more info as to what the hell his role is here, i don't think we should be listening to what he's saying.

besides, i highly *highly* doubt hectic + isis would make a game where townies can just ask an npc for who the scum is, and that they would give an honest answer.

also saying this right now, if robert ever flips scum this game, nakata is locktown and i'm deathtunnelling ydrasse until one of us is dead.

More Yin discrediting. There's not even a thought Yin could be accurate here. Note also the defence of a buddy and threat towards a townie.
Oh, and eat my wall post. Context is key and I'm leaving nothing out. Bold is mine btw.
Scum know the setup. Just like last time, we had a major effect against us.
I'll say it again.

Occams Razor is an amazing concept for a game.

and I fully expect Hectic and Isis to troll the collective orbs off the player base by placing such a mechanic in a

Silent Star game which are known for screwy as all hell mechanics!

DEFENSE OF A BUDDY AND AN ATTACK ON A TOWNIE IN A FUCKING REVERSE WINCON GAME ARE YOU SERIOUS

and even then, that was only valid for if robert flipped red - he didn't. and even then, the fact that that only takes place after robert flip, would mean that scum!me would first have to get robert flipped, have him flip green (bad for scum!me's wincon) *then* somehow use that to get even more townies flipped even though that is even worse for scum's wincon like what

Gotta keep up appearances. I wouldn't put it past you, yeah I may be wrong on the experience I have with you, but you strike me as the smart kinda deepwolf. You gotta keep up that appearance.

this is once again confbias, either real or faked. because this isn't "this post is scummy, therefore tanner is scum", this is you deciding i'm scum and seeing every post i make as either me pushing my scum agenda or me setting up a galaxy brain deepwolf. and i don't you're even denying it at this point.

i think Yin said he's a thief because the character he's being is a phantom thief.

right. i still don't think it overrides my other points, that we genuinely have no clue what his role is and whether he'd be truthful to us.

yin

, is yang a criminal?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

Discrediting Yin but still interacting? Interesting.

not taking yin as gospel but still thinking that there might be value in interacting with him? what is nuance, amirite?

Nuance, as defined by the Merriam Webster, a subtle difference or variation.
You've been out to discredit yin from the start, why bother interacting now? I mean it's clearly for your own amusment at this point as it's nothing exactly constructive you're trying to ask.

"i wasn't gonna blindly trust what he was gonna say but i was still gonna interact with him because *something* might come off it, either now or later". this was my stance, this was the stance of the majority of the game. and the only problem you have with me having that stance is because you've decided that i'm scum so therefore anything i say is scummy.

does playing on a different account help with that?

so far, yeah. but i've never made it to endgame with this account, which is usually where my nerves really go off the rails, so remains to be seen.

ay yo ircher, wanna place an actual vote on someone?

First time for everything, right?

pointless filler

Welcome to my brain. it has lots of it...

aight

I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?
I am pretty messed up on heat and medication at this point. and seeing as it's come up elsewhere, I'm on non-opioids because oh boy do I react to those, I take a mixture of Naproxen(Aleve) and Pregabalin(Lyrica) day to day, with Nefopam(Acupan) on the bad days which leaves me super messed up. (Why Americans call everything by brand name will always confuse me.)

ircher wagon feels like a wagon on a townie who's being weird. and distracting from a buddy who's caught with their pants down but people are giving them a pass because "???" "what if they're lhf".

Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

the most survivalistic bastard you'll see in a game, nice to meet you.

pedit: didn't see anything that shows they can't both be scum. that's just what my gut is telling me right now.

The thing I hate is people always want a case of STRONG points, never lots of weak ones. Even when the weak ones massively outweigh any solid town reasoning. Survivalism is the biggest one. Most town I know don't care about being elim'd as long as their information gained is decent.

good for them, i'm not like most town.

Wow thats an old game.
Also I don't see the relevance? you're coaching town a little?

the first example that came to mind of me going "you're town so you need to care about your own life, getting yourself yeeted is getting the only confirmed townie (to you) in the game yeeted, fight it". like you said "the biggest one is survivalism, most town don't care about getting yeeted" i do. i very much do. have for the longest time.

i'm not going "two competing wagons must be t/s" > "robert is the scum, ircher is the town".
i'm going "i'm scumreading robert and i'm vaguely townie on ircher" > "their wagons are competing, i think they're t/s"

Speaking of weak, order of operations is something I'm using as part of my toolset rn, and seeing how it helps me. That second line to me reads as Robert Town, Ircher scum.
This is just a general note for me to call back to at some point for my own universial shenangians.

?

Exactly what I said.

i mean, that was saying that i don't get your point here, but ok. it felt you were saying how you're scumreading me and from there you think i'm spewing robert as town and ircher as scum, but they've both been flipped and ircher is obviously not scum, so... idk.

573 does make it sound like it has to do with Robert scum. which, sure, i could see it.
where do you get town for Ircher? he's been pretty null for me. maybe a little townier for the response to you asking him to vote and Ircher sitting on his Yin vote instead.

err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

i talked about it in 328 and 336. like, he started receiving pressure, and instead of doing traditionally townie things he kept doing his own thing? i thought that was somewhat townie.

Not everyone responds to pressure. Generally unless you know a players meta it's NAI. As scum I flail like a beast under pressure, as town I'm next to usless under pressure too. it's just how I am, I'm more reflexive than active.

ok, what does this have to do with anything? do you wanna show how using that read makes me scum or...

Ircher doesn't really respond to pressure in my experience.

i mean, ok. i have played with ircher once about 2 years ago (not counting marathons). so, uh. not sure what it has to do with my alignment or why you're pointing it out. unless the answer is filler again, in which case, shrug.

i'd have hoped seeing so many pedits of ydrasse screaming how ircher is a bad vote would've made me think she's town, but they did not. sad.

"Aww Ydrasse didn't give me a reason to townread her."

yes?

It amused me.

glad to know

Spoiler: i just can't deny

i mean, i agree that Ircher has some votes, but it feels early to say he's an easier wagon when iirc Robert had the same amount or more (at least 3, by my count), and i believe i make three on Ircher.

my point is that scum want an easy wagon on a townie. and i don't think robert is a townie. therefore robert *cannot* be an easy wagon at all.

also considering how much discussion on robert there is, and many people are going "hurr durr lhf" (while ircher is picking votes up effortlessly), robert doesn't feel like an easy wagon at all.

Thing is optimal scumplay is never to take the easy wagon D1. But to derail it.

okay? this is relevant to my alignment how?

have you read what i've written about robert and why i'm voting him? i saw you earlier asking that there was a robert thing, and like. what do you think of my case?

I'm in ISO right now and WHAT CASE!? THERE IS NO CASE HERE.

i don't fucking write cases i wrote one proper scumcase in my life and it was a disaster. but i'd talked about robert plenty of times up until that point and pretending that i didn't make my reasons clear is straight misrep

Well I'm missing them clearly.

posts up to there where i (majorly) talk about robert: 323, 328, 545, 565 (there's probably others, i just ctrl+f'ed "robert" in my iso and skimmed through.)

note while i was looking for these posts: i did mention in 552 that a small part of my read had to do with meta. but it was genuinely such a small part (because it borders second-hand meta to me and i have learned to ignore it) that it's basically ignorable.

actually i don't care enough about it, hopefully he's gonna come back and make his alignment really obvious, one way or another.

why you voting chara, pooky?

Literally the entire case is a meta read. Amazing. And one you're not even that bothered about.

it's not. i'd never played with robert before.

But you have modded a game with robert, and previous game is still meta... so it's a meta read.

the vast vast majority of my read on him had nothing to do with meta. i was scumreading him for his bad attack on me, his bad follow up, bad patterns to pressure (or whatever it was at the time, i don't remember the exact timeline). like, just because i had *seen* him in a game before, doesn't mean i was *using* that game in my meta read. because, uh, i was the mod of that game, and my brain works differently when i'm modding and i know everyone's alignment.

Case on robert is hes been caught in a lie about knowing mains/alts

it's not. my main points against him are the garbage push he made on me, then freezing / not knowing how to react once the information about alts came to light (second part of 545).

This is 100% absolute horse crap. Your case was entirely meta based and backed up with ketchup/catsup pretending to be hot sauce. I wanted to feel a burn, all I felt was sweet tanginess.

it. was. not. meta. i didn't know jack shit about robert's meta. are we reading the same game?

Apparently not. because i ain't seeing what you're putting down and it certainly ain't blowing my socks off.

sorry? maybe actually read my iso instead of just nitpicking everything i do as either obvious scum or mastermind deepwolf?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

That would be really helpful.

debatable. second-hand meta usually just makes me tunnel what i already think. and you'd think that would stop me from saying "i should do meta research" but it does not.

do you plan on linking that "slip" from tse?

Tanner i’m very interested in your response now.

here's a take - i see absolutely nothing town-indicative in what robert has posted in his return.

upon getting back, he started getting pissy, doing the most surface-level omgus. he repeated not once, not twice, but three times that he's mad he's being wagoned for "not knowing alt accounts". i explicitly said that i don't give a shit he didn't know who i am - my problem is that his original attack on me and his reaction upon learning about the alt both reek of scum. his original points on me were garbage, and he has showed no re-evaluation of my slot upon learning the new info. even now! he chose to completely ignore me and what i'm saying (and why i'm voting him) and instead just go omgus someone else. you'd think town!him would, i don't know, at least *address* his read on me (you know, the thing that got him into this mess in the first place) by this point?

why the hell are people reading him as town? because he got mad? like, ircher called him out, he wasn't doing jack shit other than being mad and insisting he's being wagoned for not knowing alts. that's not town-indicative behaviour. and the "it's obvious i won't make it to night so people defending me are suspicious" like, you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Kinda like you're getting a lil shirty with my single handed push on you? That I've been sus on you the entire game? That you know by my rep I tunnel and its rare I stop? how about your points? Your persistent meta, using that he got caught out by not remembering every player and alts in a game he played in? Showed no-revaluation because why would he? Who you are had nothing to do with this push on you that I recall, I may be wrong.
Theres something amazing here though.

you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Coming from the wonder defender. Beautiful.

i don't know shit about your rep and i don't care. my points on robert weren't meta and framing them like they were as you're allegedly reading my iso is disingenuous af.

Ooooo I got to you didn't I?
I am reading your ISO, I am sharing my thoughts as they happen. I have not seen ANYTHING that suggests anything other than meta. It's busywork at best.

yes, you got me annoyed. congrats?

and again. "his original push on me was bad", "he didn't try to reevaluate at all when he learned that his og push was misplaced", "his activity patterns correlated with the amount of pressure he was on, which is scummy" had n o t h i n g to do with meta.

Nakata thinks that friend Tanner is likely town.

could Nakata elaborate on this?

Do I smell a connection? A forced interaction?
It smells either way.

god
forbid
i ask someone
how they read me

yes how dare you.

smfh i know right tanner trying to read someone by trying to figure out if their read on him is realistic or bullshit, how fucking dare he

VOTE: infinity

Literally 3 posts before this with Infinity interactions/mentions.
"BE YEET FRIEND! I WILLST SEE THOU AGAINST SOON!"

sigh

:3

no. 2

for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

Pretty sure this vote is weaker than an RVS vote, and the disclaimer is here again.

I think Tanner is nervous scum Once again we have the self-aware "oh woe is unto me, my reads! They are trash! so low as to even be unworthy of pigs muck!"
-Dramatisation by me. Im that way out currently :3

letting people know when you're aware that your reads aren't what they should be? what is honesty?

No self-meta to back this one up? Interesting.
Peoples reads are generally naff, that's the thing. you're just making excuses here.

do you *want* me to find instances of town!me being honest about the fact that i'm not confident in my own reads at the time of posting them? again, tanner is scum therefore everything he did is scummy.

i will be doing absolutely zero second-hand meta research, thanks.

how is it supposed to be "obvious" you're town here? you're not being townie.

No but you expect us to. And pretty obvious to you I'd imagine.

no i don't. if i have a second-hand meta point on someone i will present it myself.

And yet...

have i said "ackhucally this is my town meta, go read the 250-page mini normal 1337 so you'll see" anywhere? if i think i can make a second-hand meta case, i will directly link it to the relevant part.

that amy/nakata back and forth was so unpleasant to read, what the fuck.

Tanner, what makes you think I’m unhappy to be here? I’m really excited about this game, so I really don’t understand where you’re getting that from?

your recent posts before my 868 felt kind of bland and boring. and 844 felt scummy. i'm not too certain about your being scum right now though, recent posting felt better. i'll probably shelf it back to think about it later, as i doubt you're getting run up anyway.

clidd is probably town. also 967 (now that i'm actually reading it and not sleepily skipping over it) does feel like town ydrasse. i don't think i agree with the idea that scum!infinity > scum!nakata, but i wouldn't be *terribly* surprised i was wrong there. to me it feels obvious why nakata isn't extending the same mentality from robert to infinity, and i guess i don't really find it scummy, but this is probably better left for him to answer.

Posts are bland and boring (been reading his own apparently), there's a scummy post but behold! He is upon the fence! Amy is an established SR of Tanners at this point from the gist of the posts, so this jarrs me a little bit. "i'll shelf it for now because you're not getting run up anyway" - I hate this, I hate this so much. Why not case a scumread and get it going? At least establish it? And before you say anything, I've been on you all dang game.

because why would i? i'm a practical person. it takes time and effort to try to iron out a read, a read that i know that (1) won't do anything because i will not manage to convince people to vote amy anyway (2) would not be as good as it could be if i wait a little and get more info. some people take time to be sorted it's not a bad thing to admit that. not everyone needs to be sorted right away, it's ok to take time and strategize about how to get your own reads. again, shows you know nothing about my play.

Thing is I'm pretty good at picking up peoples playstyle. So far you've been pretty passive about this whole thing.
You're not even being reflexive. you are just full, on, passive. you're not ironing out a read at all, and with enough conviction in a read you can sway peoples minds. This is a game of psychology. Just being confident changes a lot.

Like I said, my god complex (fucking BPD) has kicked in, I am now pretty damned confident in myself and my ability to do what I do. Is it true? Well it won't let me say no... but you get the idea.

ah yeah, i was totally being passive around the infinity read. or the robert read. or the ircher read. i definitely didn't try my best to do what i thought was the best for the game and save loltownie ircher to wagon obvscum (which turned out to be correct! i was right!! fucking silent star!!! in any other game i would've eaten the nightkill on n1 for that but noooOOOOO)

Spoiler: i love that guy

To be completely honest, you actually haven’t been very nice to me so far. I have no idea why?
I don’t see why 844 was scummy. That’s typical how I solve. I’m just trying to figure out who to vote for. If this game was based on who I absolutely would not vote for, this game would be hella easier.

apologies if i've been rude anywhere, but i don't think suspecting you to be scum or asking you why you're posting something is not being nice? we're playing mafia.

844 felt like trying to paint non-scummy things as coming from scum. like, the "if he's so certain on robert!scum, why pivot to tweetie" part felt kind of intentionally trying to make his actions more malicious then they really are.

How do you solve? Normally I can work out how someone plays and see their style. You're not scumhunting, you're not town hunting. You're not hunting at all that I can see, not even reflexivly.

i've been townhunting and scumhunting, but you're been ignoring those posts because "this read is pulled out of his ass" or "he doesn't wanna iron out on this read" or "he hasn't made a proper case on that read" or "this is obvious setting up buddies/townies" so like

Fucking hell is like you looked into the future on me...

>_>

you quoted my wall where i said i thought clidd was scummy to say "really? he's one of my strongest townreads" without explaining why you think so, asking for my reasons, or trying to change my mind. that's a scummy post that adds nothing to the table while attempting to make it look like you're contributing something. so i asked what was the point of posting it.

your constant "oh i'm so frustrated, i don't have a strong scumread, i don't know where to vote, woe is me" are really starting to sound fake.

saying "i don't know who to vote and i don't wanna misyeet" is one of the easiest things to fake as scum. it also adds literally nothing to the conversation. the longer you keep that act up, the more fake it gets, and i'm gonna call you out on it.

I'm cracking up again, your efforts so far have been so half assed that you can call someone out is amazing.

yeah i can. i had stances. you didn't like them but they were there.

*looks around*
Your stances have for the most part been so weak I can blow at them and they'll fall over I reckon.

sure. ignore things that don't go along with your scum!tanner tunnel hell.

Look I ain't here to cause beef, I'm here to solve the game.
So far, I'm doing pretty damned good.
If you're town, you got nothing to fear. because my plan will show I'm wrong before we get to Yolo.

debateable. (the solve the game part, i believe that you're not in this game primarily to have this argument with me.)
you are not.
and thanks, i'd rather not have to go along with your ~plan~ that fmpov most likely results in an escaped scum when we can avoid that altogether.

[Flea The Magician]

Yin mentioned Roses too, neglecting that in the territories of the War of the Roses, I am a white rose - and proud of that.

[Tanner]

from what i gathered, when yin doesn't want to answer a question (either because he just doesn't or because the answer to that question had already been provided in the earlier part of the post), he just gives a random fact? which seemed to cover a wide range of subjects, unsure how they could all be related to the game.

[Yang]

Yin is too handsome to be Isis but tbf I'm too handsome to be Isis but everyone says I resurrected 3 husbands last week so we're just all weaving some tangled webs of treachery and deception across the land

[Flea The Magician]

yeah usually. I was just amused by that.

[Yang]

https://youtu.be/YZ3XjVVNagU

[Yang]

[Chara]

@clidd - do you remember why you didn't vote Ircher day 1?

[Chara]

also Tanner: what are getting out of this back and forth with Flea? i've read it all but retained almost none of it.

[Tanner]

optimistically, it further convinces the rest of you that i'm town. realistically, probably nothing.

i'm an asshole who cannot bite my tongue when i think someone's read on me is awful. as for what we're getting out of it... probably nothing? even though flea does look scummy for other reasons, my gut is telling me that fae is capable of this level of stubbornness and confbias as town, so it's personally not helpful for reading faer.

[Chara]

Yin stopped answering questions the moment the wincon was revealed.

The endless day is over at last. But the acrid smell still burns in the man's nostrils. The heat hasn't left, it just has a new shape.

"You didn't need me at all, did you? Thats what you wanted to say." He spits out the words, knowing he won't get an answer. The show goes on and he's left standing on an empty stage.

Yin

, why did you detonate Ircher?

Birds fly. Fish swim. Worms wiggle in the dirt.

no he answered this...

I'd hardly consider that an answer beyond "Because its what I do."

i keep thinking there's no way Flea is this focused on every aspect of Yin's answers, but then ignoring the aspects of Yin that don't fit with the solve fae's pushing. it's hard for me to think it's just confbiasing. fae keeps repeating that fae hasn't been disproven

yet

, but also seems very sure that fae is never going to be disproven.
like yes, it's very clear i think that Yin can pick and choose what to answer. Flea dismissed this earlier by saying Yin always answers a couple of the criminal PoE questions, but has not pointed out an actual pattern, just that it's some of them. but he doesn't answer all of them.

when it was pointed out Yin is still answering questions, Flea says that one doesn't count, but doesn't even try asking anymore questions? saying that one doesn't count seems incredibly arbitrary.

i'm also wondering why Flea has been so focused on casing Tanner, but hasn't talked about why i'm scum at all. i don't know what to make of that as much.

[Chara]

optimistically, it further convinces the rest of you that i'm town. realistically, probably nothing.

i'm an asshole who cannot bite my tongue when i think someone's read on me is awful. as for what we're getting out of it... probably nothing? even though flea does look scummy for other reasons, my gut is telling me that fae is capable of this level of stubbornness and confbias as town, so it's personally not helpful for reading faer.

while i can sympathize, i said that because it doesn't really convince me you're town, and it's a lot of effort that might be better spent on enjoying your life. or, if you still hate yourself, i guess analyzing other aspects of the game. i'd personally find the latter most useful but i am compelled to suggest enjoying your life too. ahaha.

[Morning Tweet]

It is still within the realm of possibility Flea is putting on a show, but it's hard for me to grasp why fae thinks it will help faer. Maybe fae thought it was a good plan at the start of the game and is in too deep now though.

[Chara]

i feel like if Flea actually wanted faer solve to go through fae would be doing something besides scumcase Tanner. scumcasing me, or towncasing clidd, because clidd also needs to be town for faer solve to be right.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Ydrasse if you want me to reconsider you, you'd have to actually try to solve for who the real villains are or show me a game where you were that enthuiastic about pushing an elim through on Day 1?

Please for my sanity too :<

[Tanner]

or, if you still hate yourself, i guess analyzing other aspects of the game.

but getting carried by pooky sounds much more fun...

[Chara]

there's like... a glee to it that doesn't fit with town who thinks faer the Only Sane Person who knows the truth and is trying to get the others to listen to avoid a loss. i don't know how better to explain that.

pedit: i mean that is fair too. i did say only if you hate yourself. :>