Open 821 | Fall With Your Friends | Endgame

[Prism]

If I'm wrong on HEM then maybe S_S is scum, but if I am right but I really don't see scum-S_S galloping fullspeed towards 5 way here (ie. It is likely the case that HEM town->S_S town)

[humaneatingmonkey]

infinity, if you have murdercat as a locktown, why haven't you went for a pair now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll do you one better; explain your meta

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12861663
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12612853

I often try to hero solve for style points

where'd you get your reads from the games you linked and where'd you get your reads from this game

[Infinity 324]

1. Catboi, dann, inutile, prism
2. Catboi/Dann
3. Me/murder, monkey/prism

@dann I don't think murder has a particularly strong scumgame, and his solving energy is very genuine. I've seen it a few times before from him

PEdit: hmm I think I'm approaching this game the same way but expressing myself differently maybe. I don't feel the need to be as open with reads atm for whatever reason.

I get that I don't need to be paired off to win, but why wouldn't I want to be? I think murder can read me well enough that that can happen, and also I'm probably gonna be more towny this game than usual.

PEdit: murder doesn't want to.

[Prism]

i'll do you one better; explain your meta

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12861663
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12612853

I often try to hero solve for style points

I'm very null on Dannflor, but can you talk more about HEM?

I concur that he has some incentive to interject with the trust as scum but there's definitely reasoning there as town if he legitimately believes Hectic trusting was a scumclaim and/or wants to test for Hectic/Ydrasse. Is there something else about his slot that I'm missing?

Discarding the stuff about me that I suspect is fake, I think the rest thus far is very trivial for catboi either way.

[Dannflor]

@dann I don't think murder has a particularly strong scumgame, and his solving energy is very genuine. I've seen it a few times before from him

what solving has he done this game? this feels like a tone read but I feel like tone reads need a lot more time to develop before they approach anywhere near lock-levels

[humaneatingmonkey]

1. Catboi, dann, inutile, prism
2. Catboi/Dann
3. Me/murder, monkey/prism

let's move on to the next step and discuss how you came up with these reads, except for the pairing which obviously is from recent events

[Dannflor]

murdercat/catboi while we're doing hero solves

the cat team

[Infinity 324]

what solving has he done this game? this feels like a tone read but I feel like tone reads need a lot more time to develop before they approach anywhere near lock-levels

Ehh that really depends

I'm not sure how to answer "what solving has he done", it's just all his posts? Every time someone posts something his gears are reflexively turning to update his reads based on that (look a when he townread prism for example)

[Infinity 324]

Seeing as inutile hasn't posted, everyone else done something to move above null for you? IDK, feels premature, even though I don't think it's scummy.

I could add Dann in maybe for that last post. Otherwise yes

I think I made up a murder townread on prism but 167 is a good example of what I'm talking about.

[MURDERCAT]

where'd you get your reads from the games you linked and where'd you get your reads from this game

I'd rather not to be honest, if anyone else cares I will but it would be faster if Infinity just trust tests me

[MURDERCAT]

can you talk more about HEM?

Trying to avoid 2 townies pairing plus shading me is where the read is coming from

[Dannflor]

never mind I think murdercat is towny

[Infinity 324]

1. Catboi, dann, inutile, prism
2. Catboi/Dann
3. Me/murder, monkey/prism

let's move on to the next step and discuss how you came up with these reads, except for the pairing which obviously is from recent events

I townread you and s_s for reasons I'm having a hard time explaining and can maybe get back to later. One think I like from you is the followup here--it would show more of an agenda if you only cared about murder having quick reads and you could've made an excuse not to question me about this but you're still doing it. Prism is on the list cause ~paranoia~

I've talked about my read on murder so that leaves the 4 I mentioned.

I'm somewhat convinced by prism's point on catboi that he wouldn't hard townread prism so early as town and he felt locked in to say that he hard townread prism by their question. I don't even know if this was prism's point but it's mine.

Dann feels like scum having a hard time getting his footing. As town I think there's a decent chance he takes it more slow, but I feel like he's trying to look active here.

If that doesn't make sense then gut.

[Prism]

I think Infinity is well-aware that she's likely to be caught out by the wider table. The "Why not?" approach is fine if you're pursuing one path but allowing for both, and Infinity is not.

Dannflor's last post seems +town but maybe I'm really starting to lower the bar if I think Dann/Murder/S_S are town just for giving mostly basic reads.

[Infinity 324]

I'll probably trust test murder tomorrow if that would be helpful for people just in case my confidence in him comes from sleep deprivation but I don't think so.

[Prism]

Actually yeah I missed that the Murder townread was a turnaround preceded by the catteam hero solve I'm not slotting Dannflor as town for that.

[Dannflor]

As town I think there's a decent chance he takes it more slow, but I feel like he's trying to look active here.

I have actually been deliberately trying to take it slow for whatever that is worth

[Infinity 324]

Infinity is not

What do you mean by this? Sure it's fine if I don't trust fall, it's just...I think murder will townread me so I think I can trust fall. I don't see how I can or can not "allow" for a scenario where I don't trust fall because it's mostly just up to murder (and everyone else).

[Prism]

Infinity is not

What do you mean by this? Sure it's fine if I don't trust fall, it's just...I think murder will townread me so I think I can trust fall. I don't see how I can or can not "allow" for a scenario where I don't trust fall because it's mostly just up to murder (and everyone else).

You are not earnestly pursuing or making the minimum accommodations for a path to winning that involves something else until called out. This is a problem regardless of alignment.

[Infinity 324]

What accommodations are there to make? I'm not going to tell other people who to trust fall with specifically, my obligation in the scenario where I'm not trust falling is to give reads and...I'm doing that

[Prism]

When interrogated over it. I am not going to devolve into further pedantry on this. Best of luck with your pursuit if town.

[Infinity 324]

Sure, I don't really know why you think I would've have given the reads if not interrogated

[Dannflor]

I think SS #40 with his initial reaction of rolling into this game being that, "oh shit, I can't read anyone here" is fairly genuine. I would kinda of expect scum coming in here to take some sort of stance or another on the ydrasse-hectic thing, but instead SS follows it up with a question meant to sort Hectic.

I at first didn't particularly like Prism's shading of Hectic and his decision to trust fall Ydrasse. It felt slightly too close to annoyed scum that the trust fall would work, but on the other hand, I feel like Prism knew it was going to happen and I'm not sure he'd be taking that stance so strongly with the knowledge that Hectic and ydrasse were about to flip town.

it's a little weird focus has been on HEM for seeding doubt over prism though, if that is a legitimate concern people have

#91 is a little performative, not scummy necessarily, just performative

I also thought Murdercat's post about his game plan to be performative and a little scummy, but rethinking I feel it's less likely he makes that post as scum A. immediately after town just got a YOLO fall right off the bat and B. when it's likely to increase town's chances of trust falling each other instead of him. especially given the assumption that Mudercat does not have a particularly strong scum game, (I'm trusting Infinity here) I doubt murdercat would suddenly decide that his best plan was to stay until late game, make sure his partner got away, and then use a ton of town cred to get away. seems way too risky overall

Infinity I think has been really town so far. her read on murdercat especially reads genuine and was the main thing that got me rethinking my read. has actively tried to engage almost everyone and none of her solving seems performative. idk I don't really feel the need to case this

prism is mixed but gun to head I would lean town

leaving: HEM, catboi, inutile

[Infinity 324]

Sure, I don't really know why you think I would've have given the reads if not interrogated

wouldn't have*