Open 821 | Fall With Your Friends | Endgame

[Prism]

More concretely, I don't cede control of the game Day 2 unless I have extreme faith in my partner.

To clarify on why this is, while I am a tryhard as town I straight up

refuse

to lose as scum. I haven't flipped it often but I haven't lost a scumgame since 2016, I do not just go "haha it's up 2 u now" and peace unless I foolproof it first. In a Newbie game or something I'd be a bit more deferential/open to teaching but with this table absolutely not.

[Something_Smart]

you and SS will always live in the could be scum range

Why us specifically?

[Something_Smart]

If I were to pick out people at this table with scary scumgames I would

not

be pointing to myself.

[catboi]

Sorry to rope you in again so soon cat, but I'm curious if you agree with me on HEM.

Don't have a problem with you talking with me, just didn't want to make it all

about

me because I felt that would be unproductive. Curious why you reached out to me in particular, though?

I don't solidly townread HEM like you do, but I think at this point I know well enough the reasons you townread people are often strange to me; we don't really think alike. I do like how 199 sounds, that is not a hard post to fake as scum but in the moment it would be hard to commit to such a gambit, because if the bluff gets called it's game-losing. Still mulling over how I feel about his posts on page 9, I can see the attack on murdercat coming from either alignment.

[MURDERCAT]

this is lazy

I'm not calling you scum but this is a bad way to play mafia I think

In this particular setup I am pretty confident that it makes sense to have questionable but leantown players pair up at some point. I'm not sure whether it makes more sense to do it early or later, but I do think it's advantageous.

[Dannflor]

Something_Smart just gets underestimated a lot I think

[Dannflor]

this is lazy

I'm not calling you scum but this is a bad way to play mafia I think

In this particular setup I am pretty confident that it makes sense to have questionable but leantown players pair up at some point. I'm not sure whether it makes more sense to do it early or later, but I do think it's advantageous.

I don't take qualms with that logic, I take qualms with the assumption that neither will become more readable

[Infinity 324]

If I were to pick out people at this table with scary scumgames I would

not

be pointing to myself.

You don't give yourself enough credit imo

[catboi]

So whats up catboi how do we know prism is town

I just

feel

it. Every time I try to explain it prism tells me it's a bad reason to be townreading them and that I'm scum for doing it and I yell at them they're scum for reading me wrong and I cry into my pillow for hours, and then in the end we both end up flipping town anyway. (´；ω；`)

So now I'm not even going to try to explain. Haven't actually encountered Prism-scum firsthand in a forum game, but have done some research, and I do not feel this is it.

[MURDERCAT]

I take qualms with the assumption that neither will become more readable

My point was more that I have respect for both of their scum games to the point that I would not want to have to choose one of them in endgame. If they are both town I think them pairing leads to autowin. I think there is something to be said about taking a bigger risk now because if prism/HEM pair and HEM is scum it's going to suck to figure out which of them to pair with later.

[catboi]

murdercat/catboi while we're doing hero solves

the cat team

I don't think we'd be so blatantly coming up with similar reads as a team, and in fact a trivial thought experiment of how to play this setup as scum made me realize that doing so would be actively atrocious strategy. Am questioning whether we're thinking similarly or he's just shadowing me, though.

[catboi]

I think Infinity is well-aware that she's likely to be caught out by the wider table. The "Why not?" approach is fine if you're pursuing one path but allowing for both, and Infinity is not.

Dannflor's last post seems +town but maybe I'm really starting to lower the bar if I think Dann/Murder/S_S are town just for giving mostly basic reads.

Not to give too much credit but the reversal from 232 to 237 feels genuine.

[Dannflor]

at the very least I don't think it'd be too controversial to say catboi and prism probably aren't buddies?

like i'm not completely discounting theatre but this feels like a very weird type of theatre to do for

[humaneatingmonkey]

I want to pair Dannflor with Something_Smart

[Prism]

Curious why you reached out to me in particular, though?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86615

I believe you have some experience with HEM as scum, and I recall you spotting him out quite easily.

You don't have to go indepth as to the specific behaviors if you want to keep a competitive advantage, but I would like to know the name of the games you looked at. I think this is a fair compromise given that I have exactly two scumgames since 2018 and a few posts from scattered ones where I had to replace out early.

[Prism]

Haven't actually encountered Prism-scum firsthand in a forum game, but have done some research, and I do not feel this is it.

Cool, feel free to clear me at any time so HEM feels better about it at any time. Totally not setting you up to be quarantined after I flip red, I promise.

[catboi]

Dann got the sweaty scum in rvs aura

I think I will claim my strategy. I want to be alive late into the game and won't be trusting until endgame

Towny

Prism/S_S town, this game is going to be over in like a day

like this is what I'm talking about, it feels like fake bravado

I think purely on tone this feels towny because oof they are excited to be sorting and giving a lot of takes but

it actually just feels more like catboi is making it up. mostly because most of his posts are *giving* takes in reaction to things but he's not actually interacting with any of things to plumb deeper. It's just observing and then spitting out the opinion

First move into the game I'm going to be firing surface-level takes, depth and nuance comes later as there's more to work off of, that stuff's all gut.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Murdercat, anything about Infinitys game so far that you are sus of?

[Prism]

I'm ambivalent towards humaneatingmonkey. I couldn't necessarily point to anything he said that was glaringly bad but his overall play felt a bit sideliney and geared toward targets that were either lhf or blatantly self-destructing. I had him as a pocket scumread coming into the game because some of his posts with regard to orctin felt rather shifty and he seemed to be minimizing attention on orctin while directing people's focus elsewhere, but I don't want to get too deep into preflip associatives. 558 about Dum is a bit of a head scratcher because he seems to be implying it's scummy for Dum to have fallen off in activity, rather than just being a case of someone not having enough time for the game. The townread on ninjastore today is a bit of a headscratcher as well in how loose/easy it is, feelsa disproportionate level of confidence for the reasoning behind it. Didn't like the way he was pushing JV but I sort of expected scum-him to continue tunneling me on my entry to the game if I presented myself as a threat but he agreed with me on orctin pretty quickly, he's either town or a very pre-emptive busser. I guess ultimately my feeling is while there's maybe only a few spots in his posting that strike me as odd there isn't anything I would say is necessarily obvtown and out of the scum range of an experienced player.

Do you believe HEM has displayed any similarities to the above, ex. sideliney, shifting attention, confident/ease of reads, pre-emptive busser

[Dannflor]

First move into the game I'm going to be firing surface-level takes, depth and nuance comes later as there's more to work off of, that stuff's all gut.

that is fair

it just felt like... posting to post?

I have yet to see that gut stuff be coalesced and synthesized into your later nuanced reads so it's possible I'm scum reading a play style

[catboi]

Curious why you reached out to me in particular, though?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86615

I believe you have some experience with HEM as scum, and I recall you spotting him out quite easily.

You don't have to go indepth as to the specific behaviors if you want to keep a competitive advantage, but I would like to know the name of the games you looked at. I think this is a fair compromise given that I have exactly two scumgames since 2018 and a few posts from scattered ones where I had to replace out early.

To be perfectly blunt: I'm not sure I could have confidently caught out HEM on his own there, and despite the strength of my read I wasn't confident enough I could present a convincing case for it. The primary strength of the read was based on his associations with his newbie partner who was obvscum; I think trying to compare play between the two games wouldn't be useful given the experience level is wildly different - you don't play scum around newbies the same way you play around experienced players, I think that's true for most players even if they're not fully conscious of it. The setup is atypical as well, traditional tells aren't necessarily going to work because we're not voting for eliminations.

[catboi]

Hmm, when did I go from being in your never trust group to being enough of a townread to want me to pair off?

We are up a pair and I think you and SS will always live in the could be scum range, so it would be good to solve both of you at once. It's not the mostly likely to be town pair, but it would polarize the rest of the players left over.

That's...kind of an odd approach to take, and why us two? I feel like something_smart is decently readable, given enough time. Why not aim for the more confident townreads early? That feels like a basic risk mitigation strategy.

catboi could literally make every post thus far as scum on 72 hours of no sleep and juggling 3 8 lb bowling balls oh fuck no

b4 u start crying in ur room about me tunneling u btw cat i'm not saying that every post you made is scummy or something (only the ones about me!!!) but 100% you doing basic reactions/reads is NAI

Compliment accepted, friendo~

[Prism]

If this is HEM/catboi I am going to be so salty because catboi is saying all the right things to make me internally doubledown on HEM town

[inutile]

I've dreamed about it for 4 trust fall games now

since not mafia in the four (3) person hydra game!!!

I wanna live until endgame and fall with kitty

why are people saying things of this sort when noone is proposing to them or indicating a desire to do so

Why inutile, murdercat?

hm

tbqh I don't think any combination of scum ever wins this setup

too cheeky right

Mostly looking forward to when inutile comes online, hopefully makes the game much easier.

reporting for duty

[inutile]

Why inutile, murdercat?

hm

i think murdercat was being kind to me regardless there