Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Flea The Magician]

And lets face it...
This is just you looking to affirm your towncred.
and I'll be blamed when you and tanner get ejected and win.

Okay Flea I’ll bite. Your Chara/Tanner theory doesn’t make sense from a wifom perspective. Why? Because if Yin actually handed us the entire scumteam and we yeeted either of Tanner/Chara and either flipped scum, the surviving one would then be doomed and scum would obviously lose. That’s why your Tanner/Chara theory doesn’t make logical sense based off of Yin wifom.

occams

...

razor.

It means that at least one - if not both of them are town, because we were meant to believe him because of Infinity/Nakata flips but why would he tell us the entire scumteam?

Yin knew about the reveal obviously which is why he’s the one that wound up detonating Ircher and not Nakata.

Occam's razor, Ockham's razor, Ocham's razor, or the principle of parsimony or law of parsimony is the problem-solving principle that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity", sometimes inaccurately paraphrased as "the simplest explanation is usually the best one."

We have been - through an extended process of elimination - given the solve to the game.

I have pointed out my own experiences with this lil dilemma.

and while town blames me for their incoming loss, I will laugh soundly at all of you.

I will not vote Tanner.
I will not vote Chara.
and I most certainly will not be dignified.

How is this Occams Razor?

Now had Yin not actually detonated Ircher, your theory would be more believable

Yin needed to detonate ircher to remove a confirmed town voice from acting against the scum win condition and we were attempting to to speedyeet ircher.

Yin absolutely had to detonate to meet the wincon for scum.

[Amy Dunne]

Ah, it seems i was unable to get an extension on my college assignments

So I have just today to do them all

My apologies, I won't have time until much later most likely.

If you want to elim me early thats fine,

my preferences as of right now are like Tanner>>>>Pooky>>Ydrasse>>>>Flea>>Chara>>>>>>>>>clidd

It's sad that you have me so low on your PoE judging from past experiences where you read me correctly even with almost everyone scumreading me, but I understand that my current post flow is too low and with weird interactions to justify any ratings above the null or null-scum margin.

My reads are kind’ve similar except I think Chara should be a lot higher. It’s really genuinely trying to solve - very similar to FL v Hectic and very much unlike Pokemon Battles.

Again, can someone please explain to me why Chara is scum here because I am totally not seeing it?

[Amy Dunne]

And lets face it...
This is just you looking to affirm your towncred.
and I'll be blamed when you and tanner get ejected and win.

Okay Flea I’ll bite. Your Chara/Tanner theory doesn’t make sense from a wifom perspective. Why? Because if Yin actually handed us the entire scumteam and we yeeted either of Tanner/Chara and either flipped scum, the surviving one would then be doomed and scum would obviously lose. That’s why your Tanner/Chara theory doesn’t make logical sense based off of Yin wifom.

occams

...

razor.

It means that at least one - if not both of them are town, because we were meant to believe him because of Infinity/Nakata flips but why would he tell us the entire scumteam?

Yin knew about the reveal obviously which is why he’s the one that wound up detonating Ircher and not Nakata.

Occam's razor, Ockham's razor, Ocham's razor, or the principle of parsimony or law of parsimony is the problem-solving principle that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity", sometimes inaccurately paraphrased as "the simplest explanation is usually the best one."

We have been - through an extended process of elimination - given the solve to the game.

I have pointed out my own experiences with this lil dilemma.

and while town blames me for their incoming loss, I will laugh soundly at all of you.

I will not vote Tanner.
I will not vote Chara.
and I most certainly will not be dignified.

How is this Occams Razor?

Now had Yin not actually detonated Ircher, your theory would be more believable

Yin needed to detonate ircher to remove a confirmed town voice from acting against the scum win condition and we were attempting to to speedyeet ircher.

Yin absolutely had to detonate to meet the wincon for scum.

Yes I obviously know that, which is why I don’t believe he laid out the entire scumteam.

[Amy Dunne]

Pooky, please towncase Chara. I feel extremely confident it’s town.

[Flea The Magician]

Flea's theory doesn't seem likely to me considering that we wouldn't just solve the game by asking those questions, but the process fae's using doesn't sound malicious, though the persistence isn't pleasant.

Need to see a flip to judge better.

Clidd we've clashed many many times. My persistance is one of the reasons for that. And you know I do not back down when we've played and I've done it as town.

[Flea The Magician]

And lets face it...
This is just you looking to affirm your towncred.
and I'll be blamed when you and tanner get ejected and win.

Okay Flea I’ll bite. Your Chara/Tanner theory doesn’t make sense from a wifom perspective. Why? Because if Yin actually handed us the entire scumteam and we yeeted either of Tanner/Chara and either flipped scum, the surviving one would then be doomed and scum would obviously lose. That’s why your Tanner/Chara theory doesn’t make logical sense based off of Yin wifom.

occams

...

razor.

It means that at least one - if not both of them are town, because we were meant to believe him because of Infinity/Nakata flips but why would he tell us the entire scumteam?

Yin knew about the reveal obviously which is why he’s the one that wound up detonating Ircher and not Nakata.

Occam's razor, Ockham's razor, Ocham's razor, or the principle of parsimony or law of parsimony is the problem-solving principle that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity", sometimes inaccurately paraphrased as "the simplest explanation is usually the best one."

We have been - through an extended process of elimination - given the solve to the game.

I have pointed out my own experiences with this lil dilemma.

and while town blames me for their incoming loss, I will laugh soundly at all of you.

I will not vote Tanner.
I will not vote Chara.
and I most certainly will not be dignified.

How is this Occams Razor?

Now had Yin not actually detonated Ircher, your theory would be more believable

Yin needed to detonate ircher to remove a confirmed town voice from acting against the scum win condition and we were attempting to to speedyeet ircher.

Yin absolutely had to detonate to meet the wincon for scum.

Yes I obviously know that, which is why I don’t believe he laid out the entire scumteam.

What was scums initially hidden objective Amy?

[Tanner]

lol i use it too clidd, i just found it funny coming from someone like you who gives off such a serious and formal vibe.

and uh yeah, another nightkill would be ridiculous. i'm just brainstorming the reasons that mason pt has for existing, because it doesn't seem like it's very useful right now. and my guess is that things don't just exist for the sake of it.

I've been trying to lessen that sense of seriousness a bit, as it's a feature that came about because of the language barrier, but yeah, I can imagine why that would sound funny.

Do you think this says anything about my alignment here?

probably not. i can imagine both town! and scum! clidd wanting to appear less serious if he happened to grow tired of that style, i don't think it's ai.

Flea's theory doesn't seem likely to me considering that we wouldn't just solve the game by asking those questions, but the process fae's using doesn't sound malicious, though the persistence isn't pleasant.

Need to see a flip to judge better.

whose flip do you need to see for this? because tweetie hasn't self-hammered so she's for all intents and purposes basically flipped town right now

[Morning Tweet]

My reads are kind’ve similar except I think Chara should be a lot higher. It’s really genuinely trying to solve - very similar to FL v Hectic and very much unlike Pokemon Battles.

Again, can someone please explain to me why Chara is scum here because I am totally not seeing it?

who is scum instead? Ydrasse and clidd?

[clidd]

Ah, it seems i was unable to get an extension on my college assignments

So I have just today to do them all

My apologies, I won't have time until much later most likely.

If you want to elim me early thats fine,

my preferences as of right now are like Tanner>>>>Pooky>>Ydrasse>>>>Flea>>Chara>>>>>>>>>clidd

It's sad that you have me so low on your PoE judging from past experiences where you read me correctly even with almost everyone scumreading me, but I understand that my current post flow is too low and with weird interactions to justify any ratings above the null or null-scum margin.

My reads are kind’ve similar except I think Chara should be a lot higher. It’s really genuinely trying to solve - very similar to FL v Hectic and very much unlike Pokemon Battles.

Again, can someone please explain to me why Chara is scum here because I am totally not seeing it?

I don't have experience with Chara, but from my perspective there are other slots more towny than it.

Do you have these games to quote? I'd like to take a look.

[Flea The Magician]

@Yin

Does the game end when Chara, Tanner and Pooky are Eliminated?

@Yang

Gengar is a Meth Clefable and the better version. So nyeh

[Amy Dunne]

My reads are kind’ve similar except I think Chara should be a lot higher. It’s really genuinely trying to solve - very similar to FL v Hectic and very much unlike Pokemon Battles.

Again, can someone please explain to me why Chara is scum here because I am totally not seeing it?

who is scum instead? Ydrasse and clidd?

Or Flea and Clidd? Idk but I’m asking you why is Chara scum? I want to understand why it’s being scumread.

[Amy Dunne]

@Yin

Does the game end when Chara, Tanner and Pooky are Eliminated?

@Yang

Gengar is a Meth Clefable and the better version. So nyeh

Yin is confiscum, do you think he’s going to tell us the truth?

[clidd]

Flea's theory doesn't seem likely to me considering that we wouldn't just solve the game by asking those questions, but the process fae's using doesn't sound malicious, though the persistence isn't pleasant.

Need to see a flip to judge better.

Clidd we've clashed many many times. My persistance is one of the reasons for that. And you know I do not back down when we've played and I've done it as town.

I know but I really don't think it would be possible to win the game that way.

The most confusing thing is that I don't understand where scum!you would come with this move and at the same time I don't understand why town!you are not letting the game flow with the flips (which would eventually show you whether you're right or wrong).

[clidd]

lol i use it too clidd, i just found it funny coming from someone like you who gives off such a serious and formal vibe.

and uh yeah, another nightkill would be ridiculous. i'm just brainstorming the reasons that mason pt has for existing, because it doesn't seem like it's very useful right now. and my guess is that things don't just exist for the sake of it.

I've been trying to lessen that sense of seriousness a bit, as it's a feature that came about because of the language barrier, but yeah, I can imagine why that would sound funny.

Do you think this says anything about my alignment here?

probably not. i can imagine both town! and scum! clidd wanting to appear less serious if he happened to grow tired of that style, i don't think it's ai.

Flea's theory doesn't seem likely to me considering that we wouldn't just solve the game by asking those questions, but the process fae's using doesn't sound malicious, though the persistence isn't pleasant.

Need to see a flip to judge better.

whose flip do you need to see for this? because tweetie hasn't self-hammered so she's for all intents and purposes basically flipped town right now

Fair, nai.

Hum, idk. I think I'll get a better view after seeing the flips happening.

[Amy Dunne]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

Scum!Flea in Royalty. Fae was pretty strongly tr in that.

[Flea The Magician]

@Yin

Does the game end when Chara, Tanner and Pooky are Eliminated?

@Yang

Gengar is a Meth Clefable and the better version. So nyeh

Yin is confiscum, do you think he’s going to tell us the truth?

He wasn't before?

Yin and Yang are SIMPLE concepts. They are opposites, they are in balance.

There is light in darkness.
There is darkness in light.
I can give you examples of both in real world situations.

Sometimes you just have to find it.

[Amy Dunne]

lol i use it too clidd, i just found it funny coming from someone like you who gives off such a serious and formal vibe.

and uh yeah, another nightkill would be ridiculous. i'm just brainstorming the reasons that mason pt has for existing, because it doesn't seem like it's very useful right now. and my guess is that things don't just exist for the sake of it.

I've been trying to lessen that sense of seriousness a bit, as it's a feature that came about because of the language barrier, but yeah, I can imagine why that would sound funny.

Do you think this says anything about my alignment here?

probably not. i can imagine both town! and scum! clidd wanting to appear less serious if he happened to grow tired of that style, i don't think it's ai.

Flea's theory doesn't seem likely to me considering that we wouldn't just solve the game by asking those questions, but the process fae's using doesn't sound malicious, though the persistence isn't pleasant.

Need to see a flip to judge better.

whose flip do you need to see for this? because tweetie hasn't self-hammered so she's for all intents and purposes basically flipped town right now

Fair, nai.

Hum, idk. I think I'll get a better view after seeing the flips happening.

Are you serious? In what world does scum!Tweetie not insta self-hammer?

[Amy Dunne]

I rn think Flea/Clidd team.

[Tanner]

Spoiler: some d1 clidd posts

Regardless, it's a decent vote for information. I'll give a try:

VOTE: Infinity 324

Moving on (before going back to Nakata)

VOTE: Infinity 324

Do you have any takes besides Nakata/Ircher?

pedit: I want to know all of those (literally)

I need to ask some specific questions for Infinity, but I didn't feel any malicious intent in the way she's been approaching the game. She's still reserved compared to my experience with town!she, but no scumping on her last set of posts. So, fine. Not super towny or transparent, but fine.

Personally speaking, I prefer to keep the pool between Ircher and Nakata.

A wagon on Infinity doesn't look very good in the period of time that we have and there are worse slots than Infinity to elim (more informative too).

My problem with the scum!Infinity theory is that she could've just avoided posting sus stuff like "Ircher towny" and keeping coasting until forced to react to a wagon on her.

Sorry, I'm not seeing.

But I wouldn't mind being wrong if an Infinity wagon materializes in elim (and also a scumflip).

ok, i'm gonna make like... an inverse of a read here that i made when i was scumreading infinity on day 1.

so, my "tell" on infinity was that she seemed to weakly call ircher scum, then disappear when people were actually trying to kill him, then appear at the last second to go "no no guys ircher is actually townie ahaha". now obviously, this was both right and wrong (because fucking silent star), but clidd's progression on infinity strikes me in a sorta... similar way?

like clidd starts off by calling infinity scummy, then votes her, then unvotes her on ??? reasoning, and keeps townreading and defending her on ??? reasoning, but it's obviously such a defense that wouldn't convince anyone. i did call them weird at the time, but once infy flipped red i didn't think much of it because the posts looked too bad to be scum/scum because i really don't think they were meant to convince anyone. but opposite wincons, no? when looked back in that light, they make *much* more sense. defense for the sake of defending and looking good later, but not one that actually stops anyone.

however, my other problem here is that if clidd is scum, who is he scum with? mainly, he went into the day going "flip ydra/tweetie/tanner, ez", and i don't think scum!him goes "yeah like flip these three townies and get 3/4ths of the way there for town's wincon lol ecksdee". i thought that would mean partner must be there (and fmpov can only be ydra, which would make sense if pooky is correct), but now he's swapped to mt/pooky/tanner, and now i'm paranoiaing pooky/clidd because i *still* think scum!clidd doesn't hand town 75% of their wincon to try to gain towncred that way

because if pooky is scum here and he flips first, everything he said is wifom, no? or goes for whoever flips red first, if they do.

[clidd]

@Amy

Maybe some mechanics we don't know yet.

But I don't support Flea's theory anyways.

[Flea The Magician]

I rn think Flea/Clidd team.

I actually give up.

[Tanner]

pooky probably talked about this somewhere in his giant reread posts but it just came to mind so

but this is partly why i feel like partnerhunting in traditional sense is difficult-to-impossible, because town is just gonna ignore whatever the first scum said and how would the other scum play around them and why did i join a bastard game

[Amy Dunne]

@Amy

Maybe some mechanics we don't know yet.

But I don't support Flea's theory anyways.

It’s scum’s wincon to get elimed. Tweetie is bleeding obvtown regardless of the non insta hammer, that just seals it.

[Tanner]

i had a thought that was like
what if we yeet whoever we think is really townie here which is tweetie right
and then
and then fucking hectic goes "achkhually nevermind that was a lie earlier, the wincons are standard shit, you just yeeted your most townie person fuck you"

what gave me this idea was the fact that yin originally said there were 4 criminals, and (i think?) he seemed to say criminals = scum, but we know (1) yin and yang are opposites and (2) yang is in a mason pt so logically yin is scum but if yin is scum then surely he's a criminal too?? so maybe there's only one scum alive and we will go insane partnerhunting partners that don't exist

[Amy Dunne]

Spoiler: some d1 clidd posts

Regardless, it's a decent vote for information. I'll give a try:

VOTE: Infinity 324

Moving on (before going back to Nakata)

VOTE: Infinity 324

Do you have any takes besides Nakata/Ircher?

pedit: I want to know all of those (literally)

I need to ask some specific questions for Infinity, but I didn't feel any malicious intent in the way she's been approaching the game. She's still reserved compared to my experience with town!she, but no scumping on her last set of posts. So, fine. Not super towny or transparent, but fine.

Personally speaking, I prefer to keep the pool between Ircher and Nakata.

A wagon on Infinity doesn't look very good in the period of time that we have and there are worse slots than Infinity to elim (more informative too).

My problem with the scum!Infinity theory is that she could've just avoided posting sus stuff like "Ircher towny" and keeping coasting until forced to react to a wagon on her.

Sorry, I'm not seeing.

But I wouldn't mind being wrong if an Infinity wagon materializes in elim (and also a scumflip).

ok, i'm gonna make like... an inverse of a read here that i made when i was scumreading infinity on day 1.

so, my "tell" on infinity was that she seemed to weakly call ircher scum, then disappear when people were actually trying to kill him, then appear at the last second to go "no no guys ircher is actually townie ahaha". now obviously, this was both right and wrong (because fucking silent star), but clidd's progression on infinity strikes me in a sorta... similar way?

like clidd starts off by calling infinity scummy, then votes her, then unvotes her on ??? reasoning, and keeps townreading and defending her on ??? reasoning, but it's obviously such a defense that wouldn't convince anyone. i did call them weird at the time, but once infy flipped red i didn't think much of it because the posts looked too bad to be scum/scum because i really don't think they were meant to convince anyone. but opposite wincons, no? when looked back in that light, they make *much* more sense. defense for the sake of defending and looking good later, but not one that actually stops anyone.

however, my other problem here is that if clidd is scum, who is he scum with? mainly, he went into the day going "flip ydra/tweetie/tanner, ez", and i don't think scum!him goes "yeah like flip these three townies and get 3/4ths of the way there for town's wincon lol ecksdee". i thought that would mean partner must be there (and fmpov can only be ydra, which would make sense if pooky is correct), but now he's swapped to mt/pooky/tanner, and now i'm paranoiaing pooky/clidd because i *still* think scum!clidd doesn't hand town 75% of their wincon to try to gain towncred that way

because if pooky is scum here and he flips first, everything he said is wifom, no? or goes for whoever flips red first, if they do.

Scum!Pooky couldn’t be arsed to put this much effort into such detailed and nuanced solving. Those screencaps he posted are exactly what he did in our Discord to solve my tm game.

Pooky is bleeding obvtown here for lots of reasons