Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Flea The Magician]

but this isn't a puzzle in a tabletop campaign. it's mafia.

You drive, Chara?

Human Stupidity is something you're taught and expected to account for in the UK driving test.

Ever work in Retail?

human stupidity at its finest.

Many applications, not just tabletop.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i dont really think hectic is dumb tho

[Amy Dunne]

tweet first is fine imo. she should give us her ydra town case tho b4 she selfhammers

Okay, I’m fine with that.

[Chara]

i do think Flea brought up something interesting re: hammertesting, about the "clear" scum using their clearness to push their partner through, and then still getting sentenced because they're "clear". so i'd rather flip Tweetie rather than going through and hammertesting other players without flipping them for my own sanity, once Tweet's done what she wants to do.

[Flea The Magician]

i dont really think hectic is dumb tho

It's not dumb, it's bloody genius.

People make things harder on themselves all the time.
Trust me I have ADHD and Autism, it's like our specialty.

[Morning Tweet]

Well I had hope that Flea would start talking to us if we proved Tanner is town

But apparently a hammer test would still not convince Flea

Sigh

Spoiler:

i'll be honest,

when I read this post:



it feels like someone who's mafia who is in utter disbelief that a town player could play so anti-town as to be close to having a jester role PM and in such a way that gets another anti-town playing townie close to elim which ironically happens to be very counter to the mafia win condition.

I don't need to say how much of a bad situation the mafia would be in if D1 had ended up with Robert pushing an Ircher yeet which leads to a Robert yeet on D2. Both town LHFs going out by playing out of their minds scummy in a game where the actual town win condition is to get yeeted?

One can only laugh at the irony of the situation.

Side note, thats hilarious although i dont think it's AI

I disagree with you that Ydrasse couldn't townread Ircher as town -- yes he had done little but it is true that he had 1-2 wallposts that were serious and I considered maybe being good for him -- but ultimately wrote off

In general Im not willing to say Ydrasse is scummy for disliking the Ircher wagon D1 or for feeling strong about Infy

[Chara]

but this isn't a puzzle in a tabletop campaign. it's mafia.

You drive, Chara?

Human Stupidity is something you're taught and expected to account for in the UK driving test.

Ever work in Retail?

human stupidity at its finest.

Many applications, not just tabletop.

Isis doesn't use "human stupidity" in her setup design and i doubt Hectic does either. this is a mafia game, it's not a real-world scenario.

[Flea The Magician]

Tweetie use your noodle. <3

Hell even the scum I'm pushing is agreeing with me on this one.

[Flea The Magician]

but this isn't a puzzle in a tabletop campaign. it's mafia.

You drive, Chara?

Human Stupidity is something you're taught and expected to account for in the UK driving test.

Ever work in Retail?

human stupidity at its finest.

Many applications, not just tabletop.

Isis doesn't use "human stupidity" in her setup design and i doubt Hectic does either. this is a mafia game, it's not a real-world scenario.

It's an every day psychological concept...

... in a game that relies on psychology....

[Flea The Magician]

Occams Razor
Human stupidity.

These go hand in hand.

and are an amazing base for a game.

Especially after Yggdrasil.
you know I promised us I'd be more confident in my mech spec after that game?

[Morning Tweet]

There were a ton of chances for Ydrasse to pivot off Robert but she didn't

See: the way I approached Robert and his claim. Was easy enough.

Additionally, Ydrasse turned on Robert as early as D1 when he made the bad vote on Ircher. Ydrasse wasn't exclusively scumreading scum this game -- she just really didn't like Ircher and was fine with the other wagons (Robert, Infy, Nakata) -- and was very strong on Infy. She was one of the main proponents to Infy though, yes

Like read pages 94-96ish... does Ydrasse come off like she not only knows Robert is town, but actually doesnt want him to die for her wincon?! What's the point of this, towncred? I don't think so.. I think it was genuine

And if Ydrasse was so cognizant of towncred, why'd she start D1 by only pushing scum and defending town (even if it was briefly?)

[Morning Tweet]

Tweetie use your noodle. <3

Hell even the scum I'm pushing is agreeing with me on this one.

I disagree -- after Tanner is cleared, you would then eliminate me, followed by Tanner.

I just wanted to do it for my own benefit so I can see your reaction. I dont want the elim order to be changed

No one seems interested though which is fine. I'm gonna do the actually important stuff

[Amy Dunne]

@Pooky in this day phase, can you see any agenda that Ydrasse could be possibly be pushing because scum!her always 100% has one.

She seems to be mindmelding with you and Tweetie and I wouldn’t expect her to just go along with it as scum.

[Morning Tweet]

Also the way Ydrasse played D1 doesn't line up at all with how I would play it or expect scum to play it, I think you try and get town to eliminate scum and nudge it along but dont outright drive. You let town (like Ydrasse on Infy) drive tbh

Clidd defending Ircher in a kinda odd way which I think he did? Very possible. But Ydrasse going out of her way to harass Infy as the first person to do so in the game? I kinda doubt it. And then switching to Nakata and defending Ircher!! I doubt it!!

And then all that hard pushing onto Robert which again read it, it comes off as genuine to me, but not only would Ydrasse know he is town she actually wants him to live!?! I doubt it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think the danger to the scum changes as the game state changes.

It's easy for scum to panick/push when there's no scum who have escaped. If a cascade starts where one town gets misyeeted after another, it will be kind of difficult for scum to recover.

However once scum begin escaping, then the focus will shift towards the second part of the game.

The scummiest thing I find is her flip from Nakata is scum because I have this awesome case that my cats ate to Infinity is scum even tho Infinity was pushing for Nakata to die and oh I don't think Nakata is scum now...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Pooky in this day phase, can you see any agenda that Ydrasse could be possibly be pushing because scum!her always 100% has one.

She seems to be mindmelding with you and Tweetie and I wouldn’t expect her to just go along with it as scum.

Well her agenda if she is scum is to escape.

She's decided she doesn't want to fight me because she doesn't have the energy for it and that's probably a good idea on her part since she tried to fight me off at the beginning and it didn't work so well so now she's just shut it down.

I don't see her trying to solve the game for who the bad people are, it's kind of just a "i town read ___ and ___ and ___ etc"

[Amy Dunne]

Also she has been consistently engaged, and her reads didn’t read fake tonme. She also doesn’t sound off here at all, which in every game I’ve played with her as scum she did. I’m not getting the impression she’s hiding anything.

So maybe she should go next after Tweetie?

[Amy Dunne]

@Pooky in this day phase, can you see any agenda that Ydrasse could be possibly be pushing because scum!her always 100% has one.

She seems to be mindmelding with you and Tweetie and I wouldn’t expect her to just go along with it as scum.

Well her agenda if she is scum is to escape.

She's decided she doesn't want to fight me because she doesn't have the energy for it and that's probably a good idea on her part since she tried to fight me off at the beginning and it didn't work so well so now she's just shut it down.

I don't see her trying to solve the game for who the bad people are, it's kind of just a "i town read ___ and ___ and ___ etc"

She’s says she’s really sick and I believe her, which is why we wait for her to feel better.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Also the way Ydrasse played D1 doesn't line up at all with how I would play it or expect scum to play it, I think you try and get town to eliminate scum and nudge it along but dont outright drive. You let town (like Ydrasse on Infy) drive tbh

Clidd defending Ircher in a kinda odd way which I think he did? Very possible. But Ydrasse going out of her way to harass Infy as the first person to do so in the game? I kinda doubt it. And then switching to Nakata and defending Ircher!! I doubt it!!

And then all that hard pushing onto Robert which again read it, it comes off as genuine to me, but not only would Ydrasse know he is town she actually wants him to live!?! I doubt it

I think we disagree on how much Ydra is comfortable with openwolf powerpushing.

You say its bad because it will give her suspicion.

but

she almost escaped very early today and more than one person has townread her for hardpushing the infinity wagon.

I don't think it's a coincidence that she hardpushed both Naka and Infy while defending Ircher and Robert on D1. All four of them were playing very strangely and having the exact combination that happens to line up with the scum win conditions is kind of improbable?

Like look at what happened in the Isis game where Infy and I were scum. Ydra was very indecisive as town towards the end of D1, it just doesn't feel here that she's uninformed to me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Pooky in this day phase, can you see any agenda that Ydrasse could be possibly be pushing because scum!her always 100% has one.

She seems to be mindmelding with you and Tweetie and I wouldn’t expect her to just go along with it as scum.

Well her agenda if she is scum is to escape.

She's decided she doesn't want to fight me because she doesn't have the energy for it and that's probably a good idea on her part since she tried to fight me off at the beginning and it didn't work so well so now she's just shut it down.

I don't see her trying to solve the game for who the bad people are, it's kind of just a "i town read ___ and ___ and ___ etc"

She’s says she’s really sick and I believe her, which is why we wait for her to feel better.

I believe she is not feeling well too.

I would love for her to feel better and come back.

[Morning Tweet]

I'll investigate that area specifically, then. Ydrasse has a big case on Nakata, but then Infy is scum.

I do want to note Ydrasse accused Infy of being off earlier in the game -- and I dont think Infy thinking Nakata is scum really is a reason to townread Infy, do you?

Spoiler:

picture: ydra has just spent several hours fretting over her usual laptop being ruined because her cats are chaotic

she breaks out the ol laptop she used before and sits down and sees it has 2 hours of time, thats way more than enough

she spents like 20 or so minutes writing up her thoughts in depth about nakata

she goes to edit in all the links to the post

boom, laptop turns off

VOTE: infinity

infinity i love you but don't be lazy my god

i'll vote ircher at this point

UNVOTE:

VOTE: infinity

i have absolutely no energy today and sorry for not writing the case i was going to but at this point i’m not as sure i want to pursue it idk if it’s cold feet but rereading satoru’s iso i’m less solid, and as for the ircher wagon that wall post ah... ircher’s clearly been paying attention and thinking abo this game even if he didn’t externalize it and i think that the things he has to say are pretty decent? it’s annoying because he’s not /doing/ anything with these reads but it fits into what he was going for this game according to what he says. maybe i’m a dumbass going oooo big word pile good word you give good word to us and it’s winning over but there’s a level of nuance there that i don’t know if scum!ircher could conjure having been so aloof otherwise which i feel still reflects a solving mindset

Okay -- so the effort for getting Nakata thrown out kinda disappeared, yes.

However, is there a difference between the two for scum!Ydrasse? Why does she feel the need switch to Infy and go cold on Nakata? both were viable wagons when she first voted! And when she voted the second time, Nakata was actually the primary counterwagon. What do you think is scummy about her switching?

I also want to note she let up on Infy when momentum swung Ircher's way again. But I will grant you that she did rejoin Infy at the next opportunity (which wasn't other ppl voting and her joining a wagon -- it was her starting the wagon again in response to Infy being scummy)

[Amy Dunne]

@Pooky in this day phase, can you see any agenda that Ydrasse could be possibly be pushing because scum!her always 100% has one.

She seems to be mindmelding with you and Tweetie and I wouldn’t expect her to just go along with it as scum.

Well her agenda if she is scum is to escape.

She's decided she doesn't want to fight me because she doesn't have the energy for it and that's probably a good idea on her part since she tried to fight me off at the beginning and it didn't work so well so now she's just shut it down.

I don't see her trying to solve the game for who the bad people are, it's kind of just a "i town read ___ and ___ and ___ etc"

If scum, she doesn’t win just by escaping. Her buddy also has to escape as well. And considering that she has been mindmelding with both you and Tweetie, how does this help her hypothetical buddy?

By agenda, she’s not pushing anything you and Tweetie disagree with.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't think her pushing her buddy would help them if she flipped first so by definition she shouldn't be doing that.

[Amy Dunne]

Also the way Ydrasse played D1 doesn't line up at all with how I would play it or expect scum to play it, I think you try and get town to eliminate scum and nudge it along but dont outright drive. You let town (like Ydrasse on Infy) drive tbh

Clidd defending Ircher in a kinda odd way which I think he did? Very possible. But Ydrasse going out of her way to harass Infy as the first person to do so in the game? I kinda doubt it. And then switching to Nakata and defending Ircher!! I doubt it!!

And then all that hard pushing onto Robert which again read it, it comes off as genuine to me, but not only would Ydrasse know he is town she actually wants him to live!?! I doubt it

I think we disagree on how much Ydra is comfortable with openwolf powerpushing.

You say its bad because it will give her suspicion.

but

she almost escaped very early today and more than one person has townread her for hardpushing the infinity wagon.

I don't think it's a coincidence that she hardpushed both Naka and Infy while defending Ircher and Robert on D1. All four of them were playing very strangely and having the exact combination that happens to line up with the scum win conditions is kind of improbable?

Like look at what happened in the Isis game where Infy and I were scum. Ydra was very indecisive as town towards the end of D1, it just doesn't feel here that she's uninformed to me.

Yes but neither of you were open wolfing. BOTH Infinity and Nakata were.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Yes but neither of you were open wolfing. BOTH Infinity and Nakata were.

Openwolfing doesn't really inspire confidence in your read tho?