Do I think it's important that he tried insinuating my whole post is in bad faith by making a gotcha point out of part of 1 of my points, yes, obviously, don't be dumb.
eh when you put it that way
but imo it's not problematic that he only responded to one part, generally the way I'll look at things in larger posts is I'll take out any glaring points I see first, then potentially go over smaller problems, that way I don't have to spend more time trying to counter a point I think should be countered sooner rather than later
We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
In post 4597, Dwlee99 wrote:Gamma is probably only scum here if there are two left, given he replaced in and immediately voted Titus upon being told the lim was between Titus and STD
Are you suggesting no gamma lim tomorrow?
my interpretation is that it would be pro-D6 gamma lim, since that would be MeLo with 6 people alive
We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
Unless the 2 scum thing is reality and STD is his partner or something. I'm pretty much locked on thinking the remaining players other than chaos are town though as long as STD is actually clear.
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
In post 3882, Dwlee99 wrote:Nero night kill, defense of nom, pushing the "neighbors," at the beginning of the game pushing the me vs Peta TvT fight, all of the reasons Nero/Peta/Anya were pushing Titus day 1/2/3, play being uninspiring, townread on Osuka and Vax (vax may have fluctuated between null and town I think I need to check), early aligning with the "masons," there is a lot there on rereading parts of day one and two.
It's a shame that none of this was true D3 and you had to vote for Anya instead of Titus.
On a not snarky note, does Gamma not dying N3 affect your Titus read at all?
That first paragraph could cut through wood
In post 3889, ChaosOmega wrote:Kyo is in 3 of those 4 pairs, and I feel like you haven't questioned her or posted anything negative about her at all. That seems really weird to me. Is Kyo your top scumread?
Trying to get me to vote Kyo because I had her in two of my pairings (which I could have if I was evil and didn't want Titus to go through but didn't.)
In post 3929, VFP wrote:I'm starting to think it's just Andre / Titus or Andre / Gamma with Andre / Titus being the stronger scum pair. But that's only because I don't believe Titus didn't know it was a fake hammer. Even if that was some how true, its just not how Titus town responds.
Andres/Titus doesn't make sense given Gamma's check pool.
Agree with Titus that the lim should be Gamma today.
Rip
those first two actually look scummy because that's typically how I see scum try to feel out if a bus is called for
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
@DW I don’t know that I care about having an extended interaction. Chaos put forth most of what I’ve been arguing in better detail, and you’ve responded. I think your insistence that certain events be viewed a certain way is Scummy actually, but whatever I don’t really care.
Fmpov I'm arguing how things are (or, at least, how things are in a broad sense). For instance, I'm not going to agree with you that Titus was distancing from me (except maybe fake distancing to plant associatives) because I know I'm not partnered with her. I wanted to have a conversation about something else but we save it for post-game or in a cursed timeline if Chaos flips green next day phase.
I don’t have a rush to hammer - what do you want to discuss exactly?
And yeah I don’t see a lot of value from interacting with you about your posts or behavior. If you want to talk about Chaos for example I think that makes sense. Look from my POV, Chaos has been determined 2 consecutive days to get their view on your slot through. It’s been consistent and it doesn’t read like a fraudulent case. Now any vote or explanation can be wrong of course. But the way they’ve approached the argument seems Towny. But look this is my perception.
Obviously it helps that I noticed some of the same things and agree with the overall conclusion. And they posted some things in real time that I think point to a Town perspective. I mean hell, I thought some of the same stuff and wrote it down before reading their reaction.
I'm here, but I have nothing else really relevant to say. I've made my case as clear as I can, I think town's in good hands with Andres and Koba tomorrow. If anyone not named Dwlee has a question for me, feel free.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
I also don't want to be confrontational ftr. It's frustrating getting pushed, especially when I feel like I have been solidly showing my town colors and I feel there are bad faith arguments against my slot. And even when they aren't in bad faith, the argument is just completely out of my control and feels irrelevant to how I view my slot.
The case against me, summarized, is about associatives. I don't think there are things people think I'm doing that are scummy (except that I change my mind on things, but imo this is to be expected when new info and rereading old info combines). It's just like, you defended this slot, you pushed here but were wrong, etc. I'm bound to be wrong because my day one reads aren't spectacular. I had 2 scum north of null and tunneled town in FIA WRC. That doesn't change my alignment, and I feel like there are other ways to read people. Now, associatives are fine if things are extremely out of wack (Titus didn't push a single scum player the entire game, for instance, and I feel like Chaos' one reads list was TMI and that he didn't push those reads harder makes it look like bussing).
But I dont think things being out of wack is really applicable to my slot, because I had real progressions on scum slots that led to their death, even if I wasn't confident in my reads the whole way. Now that's just from my perspective etc. etc. and you can think it looks like bussing if you want to. It's just not something that I can exactly argue against except provide 1.) More context on what was happening and 2.) Explain my thought processes at the time.
But that's why I was so frustrated, and I apologize for that.
In post 4619, Dwlee99 wrote:The case against me, summarized, is about associatives.
This is not entirely true. It is definitely part of it, but another big issue is your desire to control the narrative and your defensiveness that seems higher than it should be given the pressure on your slot.
In post 4619, Dwlee99 wrote:It's just like, you defended this slot, you pushed here but were wrong, etc. I'm bound to be wrong because my day one reads aren't spectacular.
You argue that you are town because you were voting nom in the VFP/nom 1v1, isn't that a good day one read? This is why I scumread you, it all feels disingenuous. You argue you're town because of your D1 record, I say your D1 record is actually really bad if you look at it defending multiple scum, and now it's that your D1 reads are bound to be wrong, how could your pushes be good.
In post 4619, Dwlee99 wrote:I dont think things being out of wack is really applicable to my slot, because I had real progressions on scum slots that led to their death, even if I wasn't confident in my reads the whole way. Now that's just from my perspective etc. etc. and you can think it looks like bussing if you want to.
Because it super looks like bussing. For both scum lims, you suggest it at the beginning, you jump on at the end, and spend the time in-between trying to derail it. I would be more able to accept it as a town thought process and being unsure of yourself if you didn't constantly try to get towncred by saying how townie you are for leading these wagons on scum.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
Controlling the narrative or trying to lead town. Your pick of words. Nero died, and VFP and I worked together to lead the direction of the town. Having a strong voice to >do things< is important and the game probably stalls out if we didn't do that. Defensiveness isn't scummy especially when Koba was doing that "night kill analysis."
I had good points and bad points. That isn't spectacular. I never said all of my reads are wrong. I had Nero/Peta/VFP all pegged as town. I made some votes on scum but got off the nom wagon. Etc. But yes, some D1 reads are bound to be wrong unless you solve the whole team (which never happens).
I did more than just suggesting it for both Osuka and Titus but we have been over that.
I also just checked to make sure I remembered correctly, I only got off the nom wagon after the replace out and I went onto DGB who was positioning around the wagon with "I think it is bussing but I won't vote for nom" which was scummy.
