Newbie 2074 | Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

^ THIS

[Gamma Emerald]

Assuming I'm wrong about this, it'll look absolutely bad that I said that.

It's probably a town thing to say, but why would you cut the legs off of your own stance here?

[Ythan]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

As I said in this very page, three purpose of newbie games is in part to educate about the rules. I am not litigating the matter and don't think it's necessary to send a warning to the mod in a newbie game when I can just tell them they've made a mistake.

But here you are being willfully obtuse again.

Keep reading Gamma.

[Gamma Emerald]

Scientifically speaking, the best fruit is the kiwi.

Spoiler: off topic memeage

[Dannflor]

oh no

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I think you replaced into a scum slot :/

[Dannflor]

GE + SM ?

[Gamma Emerald]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

As I said in this very page, three purpose of newbie games is in part to educate about the rules. I am not litigating the matter and don't think it's necessary to send a warning to the mod in a newbie game when I can just tell them they've made a mistake.

But here you are being willfully obtuse again.

Keep reading Gamma.

I disagree about whether asking the mod to give a warning via PM is called for
when the matter is public, it impacts public opinion on the players, and as a mod you want moderator actions and duties to have as little undue effect on the game as possible
Also, in my ruleset I'm pretty sure I have something stating that dragging private moderator messages into the thread is an offense, because I feel like most times people do that it messes up the game somehow

[Gamma Emerald]

dont scumread james for self voting and early claiming lol you guys are weird
if you read my tiny case you actually have reasons for why i didn't include them in towncore
reading back, responding to everybody

I take it you think James is scum but not for the reasons everyone else does?

[Gamma Emerald]

Though I do advocate early E-1s. Applying some lovely pressure early in a Day phase is much more efficient than in the middle of a Day phase.

this makes sense
if a PR claim is gonna happen as a response to a wagon it's probably better for it to happen earlier in the day so those voting can course correct

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dannflor can you please explain why you scumread both me and Leaven? I saw your post but you never really said why.

I myself am surprised by it because y'all were my first two TRs
but I also don't know whether I should ACTUALLY be surprised given recent experience with Dann

[Ythan]

The why were your 148 and 149 posted to the game thread and not directed to the mod in PM?

If your true intent was to correct a newbie, rather than g ain some in game advantage, a quiet word with Nahdia who could have had a PM discussion with James would have been a better way to deal with it than publicly call him out on it, no?

As I said in this very page, three purpose of newbie games is in part to educate about the rules. I am not litigating the matter and don't think it's necessary to send a warning to the mod in a newbie game when I can just tell them they've made a mistake.

But here you are being willfully obtuse again.

Keep reading Gamma.

I disagree about whether asking the mod to give a warning via PM is called for
when the matter is public, it impacts public opinion on the players, and as a mod you want moderator actions and duties to have as little undue effect on the game as possible
Also, in my ruleset I'm pretty sure I have something stating that dragging private moderator messages into the thread is an offense, because I feel like most times people do that it messes up the game somehow

In a newbie game I'd rather try to just point out the infraction if possible. Neither issue has come up again thus far afaicr.

[Gamma Emerald]

In other words, no, it isn't blindlingly obvious to the degree you can safely assume anyone confused is either pretending or an absolute idiot?

I guess my prior post is me saying im an idiot.

Oh? maybe this is your point, since it's not obvious what is even be contested that it's not clear cut that confused parties are clearly playing dumb or are dumb. That is, they are legitimately having a tough time following the argument. I've even lost track of the greater context. I think we're talking about the James VT claim. Dann states explains it wasn't pro-town with explanation, and refutes that James explanation of trying to move things forwards isn't more valuable than what was given up for the town by his action. James doing it as a troll never seemed to be a point and Ythan clarified as such and then you are asking why the troll wouldn't repeat themselves. I just get lost here. So if James was trolling (not claimed) and if Ythan called him a troll (didn't happen) and if Ythan had an expectation of the troll repeating himself (which he stated he wouldn't because of the posts clarifying that there was no claim of trolling), why wouldn't a troll in that hypothetical situation take the action of repeating a prior explanation that was deemed not to be a troll?

TBH, none of this seems at all productive and if there is a read to be made, please clarify cause I'm simplifying it all to whether or not James is unintentionally sabotaging town as town because he feels it worth the sacrifice to move things along and/or to experiment in a newbie game, or if it is just scum making poor excuses for said sabotage.

I feel like this sort of attempt to find the lead (in the sense of a hint) that was lost track of is a town action generally

[Gamma Emerald]

In a newbie game I'd rather try to just point out the infraction if possible. Neither issue has come up again thus far afaicr.

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games? Honestly I didn't entirely get it until just now but I see why James felt he couldn't defend without breaking the ongoing games rule, because you were trying to smear him for actions within a game that isn't this one that I don't think you have a proper grasp of the events of. So maybe I'm reading too far into it but I think he specifically meant he couldn't defend against the accusations of rulebreaking.

[Gamma Emerald]

kinda sad that the towncore isnt getting much resistance, now i just feel like a weenie with thread consensus reads

was that the plan?

[Gamma Emerald]

- He's dumping this game again as VT for an even future scum game (worse than last time because of how last time went)

I don't think doing it as VT is as problematic as you seem to?
Town dying doesn't cost their side as much as scum dying does, due to the numbers of each side

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

[Gamma Emerald]

the tinfoil theory is that leaven crafted their scumcase in a way that if james were to respond to

any

part of it they get modkilled

this isn't related to the last post I made

idk whether you're right but I think it's towny you're on the lookout for that

[Ythan]

because you were trying to smear him for actions within a game that isn't this one

Did not once smear a single person in relation to this topic.

[Gamma Emerald]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

see the post above this
one VT dying is not enough to lose the game for town

[Gamma Emerald]

because you were trying to smear him for actions within a game that isn't this one

Did not once smear a single person in relation to this topic.

maybe not on purpose, but by posting that suggestion in public you essentially did so

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

see the post above this
one VT dying is not enough to lose the game for town

Make sure you know what counts as playing against your win condition to head off any future awkwardness.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: Ythan Not comfortable with this at 3. Will be back this evening.

Not at E-1 but at E-2 feels a bit weird to unvote at.

Nope? We have 2 scums remember?

Do you think the scum would out themselves this early?

[Ythan]

because you were trying to smear him for actions within a game that isn't this one

Did not once smear a single person in relation to this topic.

maybe not on purpose, but by posting that suggestion in public you essentially did so

I'm pretty sure the whole point of newbie games and SEs is to try to keep players from making it into other games still believing stuff like that.

[Gamma Emerald]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

see the post above this
one VT dying is not enough to lose the game for town

Make sure you know what counts as playing against your win condition to head off any future awkwardness.

If it were as you say I would've gotten told off for times I've self-hammered as VT in the past
but I haven't, so no, one VT doing something that gets themselves eliminated is not "playing against win condition"

[JamesTheNames]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

If you want to read the game you can.