Newbie 2074 | Game Over

[Val89]

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

This is the problem I have with this play. To be clear, that "another game" is ongoing. It's public, you can find it, you can read it, you can form your own opinions of what James did or did not do in that one; but what we clearly can not do it discuss it. I was hoping we had moved on from this, but here we are again.

Ythan feels like it's ok to challange people about the rules, while also lobbing in comments like he might have been 'playing against his wincon', and the above statement, which have clear negative connotations. The rest of us, who may or may not have a different opinion, including James himself, know that if we do want to stay on the right side of the rules, we just have to sit here, watch him do, and bit our tounges.

I don't think this should be fair game, and I don't agree that people should be calling my feeling this way "gross", either, frankly.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: Ythan Not comfortable with this at 3. Will be back this evening.

Not at E-1 but at E-2 feels a bit weird to unvote at.

Nope? We have 2 scums remember?

First of all the person putting it onto 4 would have to justify it. Then you hammer the hammerer D2 as a matter or policy.

this is my post but better

[Gamma Emerald]

I will not be retracting my claim, nor claiming a PR further down the game.

It sounds like you fail to understand that if you are town this narrows down scum's search for potential power roles.

You need to understand that this is wrong before you play real games, for real.

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

[Leaven]

the tinfoil theory is that leaven crafted their scumcase in a way that if james were to respond to

any

part of it they get modkilled

this isn't related to the last post I made

idk whether you're right but I think it's towny you're on the lookout for that

I missed this Sushi comment the first time, but agree it is a really astute observation, albeit one I hadn't considered the implications of at the time.

Welcome Gamma. Enjoying the energy you've brought to the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

if you guys care about setup talk, claiming VT early as scum is poor play in a double goon setup without elaborate planning for the other person to be the PR claimer. early claiming locks the scumteam from one of the major advantages of being in that world (being able to claim a PR uncontested)
i wouldn't base a read around this of course, but its worth keeping in mind

I might be way off the mark but in this type of setup there's very little scum can claim that'll help them live more than maybe 2 days? The primary reason scum have to claim PR in a setup like this is to draw out a claim from the real PR

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think your conclusion is wrong, but I think you overestimate how much of an advantage being able to claim PR is, when all the possible setups are listed in the OP

[Gamma Emerald]

And, in my opinion, outside of a better scum target, anyone who defends objectively anti town behavior done with basically the defense of "I know this is bad for town and last time I did it it was bad for town but i did it anyway because I'm experimenting" or because "as vt I'm more valuable to town on day 3 than a town PR" is at least equally if not more sus. Give me a better target, but without one, I'm going to go hard at antitown behavior and doing it doubly so to make it known that I will go hard against anyone who harms town for either scummy or personal gain over pro-town wincon reasons. We gave james an out by admitting this was objectively antitown and his defense was proff he has already done this before with an anti-town outcome. So he knew full well this strat doesnt help town and he did it anyway. If your conclusion is that anyone policing antitown behavior is now sus, town is already lost. Are we now in bizarro world where taking a hard stance against antitown behavior is now anti-town?

it took me a while to run through my thoughts on this post but I'm thinking both Leaven and Val have decent principles, but are kinda butting heads on policy matters
and while I don't think taking a stance against anti-town behaviors is suspicious, when it seems to have ulterior motivation, it does
That's what I'm pushing Ythan for, and what I presume CLSR was calling out Leaven for

on another note, 428 is probably town for the fact that it's saying "touche" to a post going

against

him

[Ythan]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

If you want to read the game you can.

Meta is for nerds.

[Ythan]

I will not be retracting my claim, nor claiming a PR further down the game.

It sounds like you fail to understand that if you are town this narrows down scum's search for potential power roles.

You need to understand that this is wrong before you play real games, for real.

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

James is doing a bunch of dumb shit in a newbie game I'm an se in so yeah there's a bit of that. Is it all I'm posting? No it isn't.

[Leaven]

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

Are you referring to Dr House MD, the character from the popular American Medical Drama series, as played by Hugh Laurie, where it's never lupus except for that one time it was lupus, or is there just another user here that goes by "House".

[Gamma Emerald]

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

Are you referring to Dr House MD, the character from the popular American Medical Drama series, as played by Hugh Laurie, where it's never lupus except for that one time it was lupus, or is there just another user here that goes by "House".

There is a user on this site who goes by House
And his avatar is House M.D., played by Hugh Laurie

[Gamma Emerald]

townies do outrageously pro-scum things all the time

scum try to look town

Who would you say is trying to look town rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

Val, do you accept that james took an objectively anti-town line by claiming vt? If so, then it's that simple anti-town = pro-scum. If not, then that's where we don't see eye to eye.

Wait, your joining date tells me you

should know

that anti-town behaviour is not always scum behaviour

UNVOTE: StrangeMatter

VOTE: Leaven

Does that mean he should push anti-town behavior? No.

[Gamma Emerald]

Shouldn’t *

[Ythan]

That does make more sense.

[Gamma Emerald]

Val, do you accept that james took an objectively anti-town line by claiming vt? If so, then it's that simple anti-town = pro-scum. If not, then that's where we don't see eye to eye.

Wait, your joining date tells me you

should know

that anti-town behaviour is not always scum behaviour

UNVOTE: StrangeMatter

VOTE: Leaven

Join date aside he did qualify for this game as a newbie.

That being said I think it would be lovely if you elaborated on that vote a little more because I can see where you're coming from but also I can see where else you might be coming from if you know what I mean. I expect there's a at least a little more that could be said.

They has more experience than me according to the joining date, at least I assume that. So they should know anti-town doesn’t necessarily scum indicative + they want to policy elimination

James

at D1 while the 2 scums (I think

James

is town) are setting up for a D1 miselimination. We can policy eliminate anyone later imo.

Policy eliminations are definitely NOT better saved for later

[StrangeMatter]

Policy to me should not take priority over your actual reads though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw, if

Leaven

flips red,

StrangeMatter

most likely their partner I think.

Well, you’d be wrong about only this, if he does flip red.

Also, do you have Town reads?

Dan

,

James

,

Val

.

Is it just me or does it feel remarkably like Salsa is trying to pocket Dann? Her reads mirror his a bit

too

much imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Policy to me should not take priority over your actual reads though.

Leaven has indicated he isn’t really doing that though?

[Gamma Emerald]

^^ Would you consider her to be a bit scummy if her answer to that is "lol, that's obvious" then refused to answer it when you told her it wasn't?

So now you're trying to convince me I'm scum? Performative. Disingenuous. Scum.

[JamesTheNames]

149 was about another game entirely
why are you trying to point out rulebreaks within other games outside of discussing ongoing games?

He said he did it in another game and got speedwagonned so he's going to try it again.

If you want to read the game you can.

Meta is for nerds.

Not telling you to analyse anything, I also hate meta and think it isn't in the spirit of the game but you can see what happened or just read it?

[Gamma Emerald]

So if Salsa, Leaven, and James all flip town this game. What are the takeaways.

- With Salsa, scum can freely do anti-town things and even be town-bucketed for it. Furthermore, if people vote that scummy behavior, they will actually be scum-bucketed for it.
- With myself, scum will know they can't easily get away with anti-town things.

What advantage does town get (now or in the future) from laying a red carpet down for scum to freely behave against the interest of town? I'm happy to create an environment that discourages anti-town behavior.

If James was randomly 25% Scum, 25% PR, 50% VT, now I have him at 30% Scum, 5% PR, 65% VT. Still overwhelmingly likely to be VT, but as I've said previously, outside of a better option (which we likely will have in 5 days), my vote lands there.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnngggggggg

If you have time, check my meta, will see how townie I am all the time

This is scummy.

Why?
I kinda think it is too, but I don’t think it’s gonna be the same logic as yours.

[JamesTheNames]

So if Salsa, Leaven, and James all flip town this game. What are the takeaways.

- With Salsa, scum can freely do anti-town things and even be town-bucketed for it. Furthermore, if people vote that scummy behavior, they will actually be scum-bucketed for it.
- With myself, scum will know they can't easily get away with anti-town things.

What advantage does town get (now or in the future) from laying a red carpet down for scum to freely behave against the interest of town? I'm happy to create an environment that discourages anti-town behavior.

If James was randomly 25% Scum, 25% PR, 50% VT, now I have him at 30% Scum, 5% PR, 65% VT. Still overwhelmingly likely to be VT, but as I've said previously, outside of a better option (which we likely will have in 5 days), my vote lands there.

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnngggggggg

If you have time, check my meta, will see how townie I am all the time

This is scummy.

Why?
I kinda think it is too, but I don’t think it’s gonna be the same logic as yours.

As far as I'm concerned, if your sole argument is "Look. Meta." as to why you're town, you aren't town.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you have time, check my meta, will see how townie I am all the time

i have time
name a few games?

This is gonna be fun...

[Gamma Emerald]

As far as I'm concerned, if your sole argument is "Look. Meta." as to why you're town, you aren't town.

Impressive. It’s not what my logic is, but it definitely blows mine out of the water.
I was thinking the sheer amount of time Salsa was calling stuff “boring” was scummy
Which has a merit to it I think, but the last time I saw someone do the “I’m town because this is my town game” thing they were scum, and someone actually whipped out this exact same point against them