[MT2225] Chrono Trigger Chronicles - The Rise/Fall of Yakra

[LavosCore]

Vote Count 1.6

Roden

(1)

:

Angel Warriors

Titus

(1)

:

Gamma Emerald

ssbm_Kyouko

(5)

:

House - Robert M Hunter - T3 - mastina - Guillotina

T3

(1)

:

Lukewarm

Angel Warriors

(1)

:

Roden

Robert M Hunter

(2)

:

Titus - ssbm_Kyouko

Not Voting

(2)

:

Child of Fairies - Marashu

With 13 players in the game, 7 are required to Yeet unto the Eternal Void .

Deadline for voiding is in (expired on 2021-08-09 08:31:06)

Mod Notes

Marashu is V/LA.
Child of Faries Has been prodded
Lukewarm is V/LA
Previous VCs have been amended to reflect mastina's missed vote.
I am bad at vote tracking lol. Fixed Guillo's vote.

Pronouns

T3- He/Him
Angel Warriors - They/Them
Roden - He/Him
ssbm_Kyouko - She/Her
Marashu - He/Him
Guillotina - He/Him
Lukewarm - He/Him
Robert M Hunter - He/Him
House - He/Him
mastina - She/Her
Titus - She/Her
Gamma Emerald - He/Him
Child of Fairies - Unspecified

[House]

Town has zero motivation not to clarify a read. Thanks for scum claiming, we can get you on Day 2.

That’s just how House be tho

VOTE: RMH

[Robert M Hunter]

Meh. RMH is a better vote.

I'm always the Day 1 yeet, let's try to be original.

[House]

Meh. RMH is a better vote.

I'm always the Day 1 yeet, let's try to be original.

Why is Guillo a better option?

[Robert M Hunter]

Just the thought of being able to experience a night in a mafia game is enough for me to piss all around the litter box in excitement.

[Robert M Hunter]

Can anyone help me get a read on mastina? Her posts read like a personal diary.

[mastina]

while I won't attempt to convince you otherwise about Chrono Cross (because I actually AGREE that the tie-in Chrono Trigger ending was a horrible idea)

To be clear, I am aware that Chrono Cross has a fairly happy ending, all things considered. Can depend, obviously, depending on the paths taken, but overall is more happy in endings than not.

I also recognize that Janus was

meant

to be in the game to give his arc closure, and that him not being in the game due to restrictions means that if the story was told that was intended to be told, he'd get his closure.

But I can't judge by what was intended, I gotta judge by what was actually in the end done.

And while the overall ending of Chrono Cross is still happy, even by the end of Chrono Cross it doesn't change how it fucked over the original happy endings of Chrono Trigger. I realize that Chrono Trigger basically implied a "and they lived happily ever after" and that no happily ever after is actually so, but the game at least carried the

implication

that the characters left lasting legacies.

Spoiler: Spoiler talk

(Fair warning; my talk about Chrono Cross may not be perfect, because I am, 1: talking from memory, and 2: my memory is about things I read about the game when I heard about there being a sequel to the game I belove above basically all else. So it's possible that I may be misremembering some details leading to me stating something that is technically not true and that the game is less harsh than I remember it being. BUT, at least to my memory, the ways they got fucked over were rather extensive.)

Chrono Trigger implied that, with the defeat of Lavos:
Prometheus/Robo got to live in a 2300 AD that was not post-apocalyptic, with his robo-girlfriend very much still alive, and he himself was

also

very much alive.

In Chrono Cross, they explicitly killed off Prometheus as part of the plot. And it is, explicitly by Word of God, him, Robo, the character you played from Chrono Trigger, you are killing. It's literally stated to be him explicitly by Word of God. (I believe the quote was something to the effect of, "I'm surprised players of the original game are not reacting more strongly to this death", in regards to Prometheus's mandatory destruction.) That's 1/7 player characters fucked over.

The Kingdom of Guardia is implied to last a long, long time, maybe to 1999 AD if not longer, and without Lavos may have even survived to 2300 AD.
Furthermore, Chrono and Nadia explicitly get married (this is admittedly shown in a cutscene that technically does tie the game to Chrono Cross butstill), and in the game it is explicitly stated they have descendants. They have children meaning they live decently long lives--and their children are still in positions of reasonable power, given that the descendant in 2300 AD was explicitly the head of his Dome.
Porre is shown to be prospering with a loving mayor that has a happy family and there is a boat fairing people from Porre to the kingdom of Guardia in peace that is stated to be expanding to Medina Village, with the implication of bringing in an even greater era of peace by the connection of the world.

Suffice to say: Dalton seeing Porre as the basis for his new empire, conquering the kingdom of guardia causing it to fall, with the explicit implication that

his forces kill Chrono and Nadia

, causing the entire kingdom to fall and for all of the above to be destroyed? Can't get more of a gut-punch than that, can you?

OH WAIT but you CAN by killing off Lucca in the plot of Chrono Cross! Which, when you add in the deaths of Chrono and Nadia and the destruction of their work and legacy, brings the player characters from the original game fucked over from 1 (Prometheus explicitly killed per Word of God) to 4 (Lucca killed in the plot, Prometheus killed in the plot, Chrono and Nadia

killed offscreen

in the background of the game).

And then to add insult to injury, Glenn's legacy was the powered up Masamune. He got it powered up by getting closure on Cyrus after having faced Janus. Well, the masamune ends up corrupted, fucking over Glenn's legacy, too! (Admittedly, I am aware that Dorean chastises the misbehaving Masa and Mune and that after doing so the blade becomes good again, bustill. It's an initial fuck over.)

Add to that that while Janus was planned to be in the game, but in the final version, wasn't? He ends up, technically, getting no closure and basically not existing, being absent. So while he wasn't fucked over the way the other 5 were, his absence means he's still honorarily fucked over.

Plus, the bonus boss saying "this is not your fight" when you can be max level and your characters are destined to, in the course of letting it be the next protagonists' fight, going to basically ALL END UP DEAD, in a game that explicitly has tones about not believing about destiny/fate in the first place for added bitterness, is just another gut-punch on top of the existing ones.

But I digress.

[mastina]

Can anyone help me get a read on mastina? Her posts read like a personal diary.

Well may as well, given I've given reads and don't have much to add to them since the game's technically out of the rvs but still feels like it's in the rvs in spite of being out so there's not a lot to have in terms of read progression.

Strongly North of Null:

House
Titus
Gamma Emerald
Angel Warriors
T3

North of Null:

Roden

Null:

Lukewarm (above the not-posters)
Marashu
Child of Fairies
Robert M Hunter (below the not-posters)

South of Null:

Guillotina

Strongly South of Null:

ssbm_Kyouko

I've not been able to get anything more refined than this though.

[T3]

Just the thought of being able to experience a night in a mafia game is enough for me to piss all around the litter box in excitement.

You vigged me night 1 in grand idea.

[T3]

Can anyone help me get a read on mastina? Her posts read like a personal diary.

Well may as well, given I've given reads and don't have much to add to them since the game's technically out of the rvs but still feels like it's in the rvs in spite of being out so there's not a lot to have in terms of read progression.

Strongly North of Null:

House
Titus
Gamma Emerald
Angel Warriors
T3

North of Null:

Roden

Null:

Lukewarm (above the not-posters)
Marashu
Child of Fairies
Robert M Hunter (below the not-posters)

South of Null:

Guillotina

Strongly South of Null:

ssbm_Kyouko

I've not been able to get anything more refined than this though.

Is this a legit readlist?

[Robert M Hunter]

Just the thought of being able to experience a night in a mafia game is enough for me to piss all around the litter box in excitement.

You vigged me night 1 in grand idea.

There was * a bit * of hyperbole in my statement

[Robert M Hunter]

South of Null:
Guillotina

Strongly South of Null:
ssbm_Kyouko

Care to give details on your reasoning?

[T3]

Also, why Titus?

[Gamma Emerald]

This is my mood @ 356
What the actual FUCK SquareSoft?

[mastina]

Is this a legit readlist?

uhoh mastina's day 1 fabricated readlist.

Oi!

I never fabricate readslists!

They are always real.

I may, in the rvs,

exaggerate

them for the sake of generating better content but I never

fabricate

them as every read has a reason backing it that makes it the truth.

So yes. It is.

I never have a readslist which

isn't

legit.

I don't know why the idea that I have readslists that are anything other than sincere has gained traction this year as I've made it very clear over the last five or so years that, no, I do not fabricate readslists in the rvs. They are

always

* genuine, sincere, and legitimate.

(*unless followed by a ' ' to denote that I am very very very clearly making what is a very very very obvious joke, e.g. having a readslist in the order of the playerlist, having a readslist based on the users' titles, etc., that are clear jokes made for clear memes that I unambiguously mark as such to make sure they are never to be confused for a real readslist.)

[mastina]

Care to give details on your reasoning?

Honestly, no, I don't have the energy to do so right now. I

can

, just...not now, not in my current mood/mindset/etc. with my energy levels and such.

Also, why Titus?

Like this as town.

Like this is town.

<3
Titus this wordplay is why you're amazing and wonderful and town. <3
(To be clear, this is in fact a read reversal from my initial 'scum?' call there; I didn't like that she made what looked like a deliberately broken vote on ssbm but her content since then is town.)

^

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: RMH
I’ll still keep watch but I think Titus’ response to me was the sort of response I would get from town!her

[T3]

VOTE: rmh
Let's all accuse me of opportunism.

[House]

Can anyone help me get a read on mastina? Her posts read like a personal diary.

Well may as well, given I've given reads and don't have much to add to them since the game's technically out of the rvs but still feels like it's in the rvs in spite of being out so there's not a lot to have in terms of read progression.

Strongly North of Null:

House
Titus
Gamma Emerald
Angel Warriors
T3

North of Null:

Roden

Null:

Lukewarm (above the not-posters)
Marashu
Child of Fairies
Robert M Hunter (below the not-posters)

South of Null:

Guillotina

Strongly South of Null:

ssbm_Kyouko

I've not been able to get anything more refined than this though.

Bump Lukewarm up & RMH down, and we be vibing.

[House]

VOTE: rmh
Let's all accuse me of opportunism.

Self-conscious, much?

[Lukewarm]

Just weighing in on the ssmb v guillo 1v1, I think that guillo's reason for calling ssmb's read on them fake is bad.

But I also think that this looks like town!guillo from the 2 games I have seen them in. Although, I have not yet encountered scum!guillo to compare.

Spoiler: @Mastina wrt to Chrono Cross

I think that Chrono Cross is a poor sequel, but is actually a good game if you pretend it is completely unrelated to Chrono Trigger

I actually played Chrono Cross first, and really enjoyed it.

Which then lead me to playing Chrono Trigger, and really enjoying it too.

So, basically, I think that Chrono Cross is a good game, but the "sequel" elements are poorly done.

[House]

Fair notice: RMH is E-2.

Not that I object, or anything. I think that's a lovely place for him to be.

Just don't want any excuses for a lolhammer.

If you're gonna lolhammer, just own it so I can shake your hand.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: rmh
Let's all accuse me of opportunism.

Self-conscious, much?

Looks like, you should join me on a T3 vote

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: rmh
Let's all accuse me of opportunism.

This is E-2 fwiw

[mastina]

Spoiler: @Mastina wrt to Chrono Cross

I think that Chrono Cross is a poor sequel, but is actually a good game if you pretend it is completely unrelated to Chrono Trigger

I actually played Chrono Cross first, and really enjoyed it.

Which then lead me to playing Chrono Trigger, and really enjoying it too.

So, basically, I think that Chrono Cross is a good game, but the "sequel" elements are poorly done.

Oh, I agree--if Chrono Cross were a standalone game with all of the plot elements it has, just with the slight shifts needed to remove continuity with Chrono Trigger (change Schala/Lavos to some generic good and some past generic bad, change Dalton to be some generic evil overlord from a distant land, change Lucca to some generic caretaker, etc.), it'd stand strongly on its own as a unique, individual, highly enjoyable world, where the events still are bittersweet but the overall happiness would lead to it being good.

They could've done it. Had it be from the makers of Chrono Trigger, set in a world inspired by it, or something to that effect. It'd have been a better game for it.

But by tying the game to Chrono Trigger in the shittiest way possible by destroying the happy ending and completely overriding it the way they did, it alienates basically anyone like me who has a love for the original game. I cannot pretend Chrono Cross is a separate world from Chrono Trigger, so I cannot enjoy Chrono Cross. Because officially, Chrono Cross IS a sequel to Chrono Trigger and thus the events in Cross both in the game and backstory of the game are considered canonical followthrough to Chrono Trigger. And as the makers of both games, Square Enix had the right to do that. But I as a consumer of the game also have the right to then, knowing what Square Enix did in the sequel to override the happy ending of the original, choose not to acknowledge the override.