Newbie 2073: Parfait (Over)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 2.01

General Wu (1):

MegAzumarill

Save The Dragons (2):

shwinnebego, catboi

MegAzumarill (1):

GeneralWu

Not Voting:

Save The Dragon, Val89, Roden

With

7

players remaining,

4

votes to eliminate

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-02 20:12:11)

MegAzumarill - V/LA (7/25 - 8/1)

[shwinnebego]

I agree with your overall thoughts about good play during the RVS stage. I agree that off-topic posting is fine and maybe even helpful because it creates more opportunities for engagement in what is otherwise a void of nothingness.

I also agree that Meg's argument about pressure voting and hammering is pretty nonsensical since, apparently, no one gets hammered early around here anyway.

Beyond that, though, your arguments about Meg become less compelling to me, though I do not find them at all townie anymore. I know they're largely unavailable this game day, but I'd certainly like to hear more from them given the discussion that has transpired so far if that's possible.

Otherwise, though, I'd put them into my potentially scummier bucket

Towniest folks: catboi, Val

Limited read, but decidedly not townie: Roden, Meg

Favorite quorums: Save the Dragons, General Wu

[shwinnebego]

If the evil team is Val & catboi, well played.

[shwinnebego]

Roden: Are you holding off on voting StD because you're afraid of putting him one vote away from hammer? Or do you have other suspicions that you would like to discuss with the thread

[catboi]

By the way, I'm sorry I was mean to you on day 1, shwinnebego.

[shwinnebego]

By the way, I'm sorry I was mean to you on day 1, shwinnebego.

Aw thanks, I appreciate that

[catboi]

i guess it's just T3 here? i don't really see a good reason why town!T3 claims mason tbh.

Actually, here's a take: this is a post coming from someone who knows T3 will flip town.

VOTE: Save the Dragons

How come?

The language is almost too passive, it doesn't have the feeling I and other people did where we really jumped on T3 for fakeclaiming, it's kind of quizzical in the "oh huh why is he doing this", like he knows T3 isn't scum but has to push him anyway.

he was at E-1, if he wasn't i would have added a vote

For the record, it's not about the vote or lack thereof, it's about how you reacted to the claim being outed as fake.

[shwinnebego]

Actually I forgot about my earlier argument re: Roden - specifically, Roden galaxy braining a bit from the supposition that T3 was evil, something that an evil person could do if they put themselves firmly into town's shoes, but requires a bit more work. This puts Roden more into town territory for me.

Thus:


Towniest folks: catboi, Val, Roden

Limited read, but decidedly not townie: Meg

Favorite quorums: Save the Dragons, General Wu

[shwinnebego]

Dammit. The more I look at StD's original post: "i guess it's just T3 here? i don't really see a good reason why town!T3 claims mason tbh."

The less it actually seems like it's based on knowing something the rest of us don't.

That actually seems like...a pretty normal thing to say at the time. I said something similar myself. I couldn't figure out why a Town T3 would fakeclaim mason, and following from that I presumed that T3 was probably evil. It was clearly a gambit; but I couldn't for the life of me identify an even remotely viable *town* gambit that T3 could be attempting. StD's statement suggests that he was thinking something similar. I'm losing track of why I thought StD was evil in the first place.

[shwinnebego]

UNVOTE:

[shwinnebego]

oops that didn't work

[shwinnebego]

whatever just don't hammer him yet let's wait for more people to weigh in

[catboi]

stray thought, but was looking back at votecounts because I wasn't sure if who had/hadn't been pushing generalwu, and that wagon feels pure?

I meant to ask this yesterday, but what did you mean by 'pure', in this context?

In the sense that everyone who voted generalwu yesterday, at least on the initial wagon (Roden, Meg, me, T3) is either a townread or confirmed town to me
.

Why? Lotsa folks were voting Wu yesterday, seems like it would be an easy thing for anyone to do. If you would, please enlighten me (in simple language, please, remember, small brain here) as to why the initial Wu voters are townie.

I think Roden's play has been very town, the response to pressure, him suggesting the possibility of a masonry inthread when a scum player would likely keep his thoughts on that confined to the scum PT. I also think your point about his reaction to the fakeclaim is a fair one. I think Meg has faded somewhat as the game has picked up and his contributions have become limited, but I still feel as though he's more likely to be good here, especially if Save the Dragons flips red, since he was the only one willing to press him on day 1.

[catboi]

Come to think of it, yeah that logic "I think std is town; I checked his other games and he usually just doesn't post anything more than one-liners and stuff as town." doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

Making a poor argument isn't inherently scummy in my view (that would be rich coming from a half-baked non-rigorous poster like me), more just saying I strongly disagree with it.

Don't be too hard on yourself - I think your recent analysis has been great, I wish I had more to add on to it.

I have to ask what was going on with your day 1, though. Is it more typical for how you play to mess around on day 1 and get serious on later days?

[catboi]

Dammit. The more I look at StD's original post: "i guess it's just T3 here? i don't really see a good reason why town!T3 claims mason tbh."

The less it actually seems like it's based on knowing something the rest of us don't.

That actually seems like...a pretty normal thing to say at the time. I said something similar myself. I couldn't figure out why a Town T3 would fakeclaim mason, and following from that I presumed that T3 was probably evil. It was clearly a gambit; but I couldn't for the life of me identify an even remotely viable *town* gambit that T3 could be attempting. StD's statement suggests that he was thinking something similar. I'm losing track of why I thought StD was evil in the first place.

I don't think it's a smoking gun, but I feel like the way he phrased it: "

i guess

it's just T3" has a level of uncertainty that almost feels unnatural. I know you were uncertain, but you seemed to be more trying to evaluate why he did it when it didn't make sense from either a town or scum perspective, his wording feels ...unnaturally hesitant? But I think beyond the reaction to the claim STD simply hasn't been very townie. I don't want to act like that's the entire reason I'm voting him.

[shwinnebego]

Come to think of it, yeah that logic "I think std is town; I checked his other games and he usually just doesn't post anything more than one-liners and stuff as town." doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

Making a poor argument isn't inherently scummy in my view (that would be rich coming from a half-baked non-rigorous poster like me), more just saying I strongly disagree with it.

Don't be too hard on yourself - I think your recent analysis has been great, I wish I had more to add on to it.

I have to ask what was going on with your day 1, though. Is it more typical for how you play to mess around on day 1 and get serious on later days?

Indeed pretty much this.

On my home forum we tend to almost exclusively shitpost and joke around until about 30 minutes before deadline on day 1, and I was somewhat surprised at the degree of ire my jocular style garnered from a Very Serious Mafia vibe angle on day 1 (when I don’t personally feel that I generate much value for town by engaging in hard nosed town sleuthery; on the contrary, I find that I get wolves to slip up more precisely in their responses to my jocular all-shitposting manner of engagement)

[shwinnebego]

*specifically on Day 1. On later days I play more normally, as just shitposting through multiple game days of mafia would be, uh, tiresome for everyone including myself (and I’d hardly even be playing mafia at that point)

[Val89]

Reminder: It takes 4 votes to hammer someone today; just in case some of shwinns recent posting has been under the impression it was hammer at 3.

I'm ready to vote StD here. That would put him at E-1; and there is a chance he might self-hammer if he is scum, so is there anything burning that really, really needs to be said before I do?

[Val89]

Actually, I'm not sure if your unvote has counted or not, shwinn. For the avoidence of doubt, if you did intend to continue with that vote, you might want to reapply it so there is no ambiguity in the state of the vote.

[shwinnebego]

I would in fact like to

UNVOTE

until we hear from StD at least

I would like to hear StD's analysis of the gamestate

[shwinnebego]

Please share your thoughts. Why did T3 fakeclaim? What do you make of the folks who voted for him? Of the folks who didn't? Who do you think is most likely to be evil right now, and why? Cheers friends!

I don't know why T3 fake claimed.
But since you disproved T3's claim, T3 was guaranteed to be the lynch that day, so it's hard to distinguish who's towny and scummy based on votes alone.

This is a decent point by General Wu that we would do well to remember, regardless of General Wu's alignment. My gut tells me that the wolves split their vote yesterday - one of them probably voted for T3 and one of them likely did not. This is a guess, but it seems to make sense. To some degree it depends on how well coordinated the wolves are.

I feel like I had stronger reads right after the flip, and as time passes I'm less confident in them and am regressing to a "I don't know anything" gameread. That's not great. Should I just stick to my guns?

[Save The Dragons]

catching up now

[catboi]

Come to think of it, yeah that logic "I think std is town; I checked his other games and he usually just doesn't post anything more than one-liners and stuff as town." doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

Making a poor argument isn't inherently scummy in my view (that would be rich coming from a half-baked non-rigorous poster like me), more just saying I strongly disagree with it.

Don't be too hard on yourself - I think your recent analysis has been great, I wish I had more to add on to it.

I have to ask what was going on with your day 1, though. Is it more typical for how you play to mess around on day 1 and get serious on later days?

Indeed pretty much this.

On my home forum we tend to almost exclusively shitpost and joke around until about 30 minutes before deadline on day 1, and I was somewhat surprised at the degree of ire my jocular style garnered from a Very Serious Mafia vibe angle on day 1 (when I don’t personally feel that I generate much value for town by engaging in hard nosed town sleuthery; on the contrary, I find that I get wolves to slip up more precisely in their responses to my jocular all-shitposting manner of engagement)

Fair enough, that's entirely valid, to a degree I think mafia are more likely to slip up when there's some amount of differences and misunderstandings. Plus, it's just boring if everyone plays the same way, I don't want to hammer that out of you. In part because of the lengthy phases on this site, I think games tend to take on an atmosphere more resembling "hard-nosed sleuthing", as you put it. I tend to put my game face on and play more serious in newbie games here in part because I want to lead by example, in part because I feel most of the time newer players tend to be more...literal-minded, in a manner of speaking. More likely to misinterpret posts that don't make things explicitly clear. Of course in doing so I fell into a culture clash with you.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!

[Val89]

I would in fact like to UNVOTE until we hear from StD at least

I would like to hear StD's analysis of the gamestate

I have to point here that given the way StD is playing this game, the first sentence of that post makes the second much more unlikley.

You seemed to have an understanding to this when discussing why you were "joking" about hammering GeneralWu D1, so you might want to have a rethink on this one.

[catboi]

I feel like I had stronger reads right after the flip, and as time passes I'm less confident in them and am regressing to a "I don't know anything" gameread. That's not great. Should I just stick to my guns?

There's always uncertainty in games. I think in part though, as it's day 2 and we still have a spare mis-elimination, I'd recommend sticking to your guns unless you find a good reason to believe something else. ELO is the time for re-evaluating and getting paranoid.