Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[marcistar]

VOTE: maxthefox

[ManateeDude]

hey marci

[Dwlee99]

Kyo seriously took exactly what I said but used way more words

Why did I wake up at 2am

[MaxTheFox]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I'm tunneling because I don't have many SRs besides omo. I didn't call anyone in my last towngame misguided town because the push on me there was valid: I was lurking. And in what way did I post more in Screaming? Read that game again, I was silent for most of D1.

[MaxTheFox]

Also with Manatee as townlean on a gut read it is evident she isn't reading, and the placement of Salsabil I'd say is questionable at best. Also, I dont ping them as anything??? That seems odd to me. They also have geraintm low on their list which is convenient considering the geraintm-salsabil dynamic and the plausible association with Salsabil

How is it evident I'm not reading? It's literally a vibe read.

[MaxTheFox]

Responses in bold.

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I promise to take a look at that game but how exactly is max tunneling this game?
I am shit with scumreads but I am pretty good with town ones and Max is a townread.
Like call it a vibe but I really think she’s town.
I wish I could explain it but I don’t think she is scum.

Spoiler: quotes related to omo

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Still waiting for you to explain this:

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

And this:

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

It should be obvious:

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

---

And just a normal response:

Getting kinda annoyed at the discreds coming at my slot because I crack jokes/play to unsettle occasionally just bc its unorthodox.

Cracking jokes =/= randomly accusing people. It just looked like scum trying to throw shade at someone early.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

You can't find anyone to have a confident scumread on because you are TMIing i believe and cannot find anything that looks scummy to you becauwe townies are towning and you dont wanna push your scumbuds.

I said I found your random pushing scummy. IMO that's not the way to move the game forward-- it creates false reads on people. The game can move forward naturally, look at other games, in many others of a comparable size RVSS ended earlier because a lead presented itself-- often someone saying something scummy, not because of a false accusation. The game's moving, but if you are town then it's moving in the wrong direction because you are scumread by many. Who are my scumbuds according to you?

If this isn't the case it would help if you could outline how you reached some of the conclusions you're tossing out.

I don't feel like "playing to unsettle" is a good play during RVS and in any case it came off as an attempt to miss-lim someone early or start a wagon rather than a genuine town play. That's my main conclusion: your play looked outrageously scum-motivated to me and most of the rest of the day so far was spent defending it.

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Also when I SRed her D1 she asked me to explain it and I never really did and she just dropped it.

You never pushed me again after that.

I also found these gems:

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

I feel activity is a weaker meta tell than playstyle usually. It's still a point against Dwlee tho.

So arbitrarily she will meta one player but rely on others for Dwlee. Her response is that Dwlee's activity is a point against him, which reads as a scumlean but I think should indicate a townlean considering he was more talkative as scum and is now less talkative. Weird choice of words, but it's ESL so maybe it's nothing.

Yeah I admit I worded it poorly.

I stand by my meta-read on Dwlee (town, he was more talkative as scum IIRC) and my general SR on omo.

VOTE: omo

Now she's saying after the scumflip, first thing in the morning, she stands by her meta-townread on dwlee, but is still tunneled on omo.

What's wrong tiwh tunneling the person you think is blatant scum?

I feel like

Dwlee is just wrong town I suppose. This is town Dwlee.

@Mod can we get a VC?

This is just a lazy faked read on dwlee and a lazy scum looking for the VC to find where to vote

I wanted a VC because I wanted to see how close people are to hammer.

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

Now it's tone, not activity, by the way.

Por que no los dos?

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

she seems like she's been pretty confident in dwlee as town all game until a wagon started up on him, pretty interesting.

Not that confident, if I was confident I'd have townbinned him...

There's also several stabs at rolefishing in her relatively short ISO which you'll want to read anyway to get an idea of the other, non-omo interactions she has had.

Show them to us.

[MaxTheFox]

So yeah Salsabil is now getting on the early bus of Max I think to try to ride towncred amongst the block. Also Salsabil, Max, and Looker are hilariously tunneling on omo, it's kind of absurd. I think DGB realizes on replace in that's kind of a dumb play and does the weird vote/unvote spam on Not_Mafia and Distance from Max and Salsa's stances on omo.

There are some pretty damning associatives between Max and DGB. When seeing my readlist that has Salsa and DGB as town, and Max as scum, she only cares to ask me why I SR her, even though she has DGB as scum that needs to come post. She should also be asking why I TR DGB if she is town.

She also posts frequently about DGB needing to post more but that she is giving DGB a pass for now - easy to shade your partner and not vote them.

There is also an unusual amount of focus on dwlee in he ISO and it took me a little bit to figure it out but ironically I think they thought he was a mason and were trying to buddy him.

I focused on Dwlee because I remember him well and wanted to take a stab at meta-reading.

[MaxTheFox]

its vv clear she is not reading and i dont see why town lies about that, the catchups r just random engagements and i dont think theyre made in attempt to start meaningful conversations but rather as an attempt to seem involved

How. Am. I. Not. Reading?

[MaxTheFox]

its vv clear she is not reading and i dont see why town lies about that, the catchups r just random engagements and i dont think theyre made in attempt to start meaningful conversations but rather as an attempt to seem involved

Engagements with people who push me, as well as pushing my main SR. Why shouldn't I defend myself?

[MaxTheFox]

I am trying my absolute best and I definitely feel more engaged than my last towngame. But it's frustrating when the harder I try, the more I get pushed.

[ManateeDude]

max you have completely missed the fact i am a claimed self confirming PR

[MaxTheFox]

max you have completely missed the fact i am a claimed self confirming PR

Yeah I missed that when making the list, I was nervous. You're townbinned.

[MaxTheFox]

Do you have any other complaints about my list other than me missing your claim?

[marcistar]

hey marci

hi, im a bit tired rn lol (2am)

- -

i wanna ask tho

max

, have you stated your opinions on the drippinggoofball wagon yet? if not, can u?
theres a wholeass scumflip to use to help with reasonings for things and such, it feels a bit weird u haven't explained things more.

[MaxTheFox]

hey marci

hi, im a bit tired rn lol (2am)

- -

i wanna ask tho

max

, have you stated your opinions on the drippinggoofball wagon yet? if not, can u?
theres a wholeass scumflip to use to help with reasonings for things and such, it feels a bit weird u haven't explained things more.

My opinions:
- I don't like omo's sudden hammer on it.

VOTE: DGB

whatever

there's absolutely no agreement here and I don't think DGB is that valuable to the gamestate anyways so yeah

I'm hammering this so no shit counterwagon happens because no one wants to go for any of my scumreads and this is at least low in my reads

It just reads like a frustrated scum hammering a doomed buddy last second for towncred. I'm not biased, in a hypothetical world where I TRed omo that would still raise an eyebrow. But this is just another finger towards omo.
- I probably should have helped push it instead-- there was little momentum on omo.
- It's interesting that it formed quickly, almost flashwagoning IIRC, then died down just as quickly and was revived. This seems like possible aborted bussing. You, marcistar, are the only constant on it in fact.

[geraintm]

something feels weird

i concur

i can't help but think of Catch me if you can when i see that phrase

That would be called a great thing if it happened. That’s a great way to misspell shame. I don’t believe you’re an investigative though but if one existed checking lurkers would be awesome and be #mathApproved

don't check me, its a waste

can someone give any example of a 4 scum normal game? always gets brought up and i never know why

SCUM LEAN

geraintm - suggested no-lim day 1 which is usually considered a bad idea. Also lurking.
.

i suggest no elimination day 1 in almost all of my games. it really, really isn't indicative of anything i promise.

I mean whatever I don't care, they're not good enough as scum to maintain it to endgame so I'm not too pressed about yall not figuring it out and TBH it'll help us in the longterm if they don't get turbo'd because it'll catch their other scumbud easily.

You seem to be assuming I am scum and going from there.

it would be a shame if an even night investigative caught them tonight though.

Is this a crumb or what?

this isn't a crumb. this is someone putting a pile of 27 loaves of stale bread in the middle of the road, with abig sign to it going "this might mean something". it could be fake, it could be not, but you didn't need to bring it to everyone's notice, we all saw it....

only player im ??? on is geraint atm. everyone else im >60% confident with

this is fair

[geraintm]

i resent being called out for lurking when Not Mafia is in the game btw...

[geraintm]

looking at mathblades votes from yesterday

early vote for owo
then maxthefox
then back to owo
then no vote
then owo again
then marcistar
then DGB at the end of the day

OWO

1st max
then marcistar
then roden (known town)
then manatee (town)
back to marcistar
then no vote
then the DGB hammer

so...OWO has the more known votes on townies during the day

but boh look hyper all day.

[Salsabil Faria]

Hello guys, I get a new solo project which I've to complete between tomorrow (I'm worried af, really want to impress my new boss ), so I'll be less active.

Btw, I'm lost in this game tbh
Last night I was thinking about it, and realized this:

Dwlee

most probably scum here. When

Titus

scramble their role first, iirr,

Dwlee

was the one who suddenly scumread

Titus

strongly and started a wagon on them which indicates scum!

Dwlee

caught the hint and wanted to eliminate

Titus

on the day phase only.

But when no one buying that, they switched to other town wagons (specially

Roden

) and didn’t vote

DGB

at all (but keep sheeping

OMO

for whatever reason, that's why I think

Dwlee

and

OMO

aren’t same aligned) and nk

Roden

to frame

OMO

and get towncred for not voting

DGB

by giving weak reasoning.

I know that's not much + WIFOM, but that's all I have rn.
@

Math

, if

Dwlee

is scum, then we may be not have any deep wolf? And I'm not convinced that

ssbm

is the deep wolf here (if we have any in the 1st place).
And when

Titus

claimed, I don’t think scum!them would know that

DGB

will be eliminated.

UNVOTE: Max

VOTE: Dwlee

[oʍo]

Why switch off max as soon as they get real pressure

[Dwlee99]

Still think Titus can flip red here.

[geraintm]

Still think Titus can flip red here.

yes, but with their claim of babysitter there is no point focussing on them today. if they are scum they'll get solved by the end of the game

[Dwlee99]

Still think Titus can flip red here.

yes, but with their claim of babysitter there is no point focussing on them today. if they are scum they'll get solved by the end of the game

But Salsa is saying that me pushing Titus is scummy when we don't even know if Titus is evil or not. And ftr no I didn't realize she was crumbing babysitter because it was a bunch of child words (and I questioned why she was doing it in thread).

[geraintm]

Still think Titus can flip red here.

yes, but with their claim of babysitter there is no point focussing on them today. if they are scum they'll get solved by the end of the game

But Salsa is saying that me pushing Titus is scummy when we don't even know if Titus is evil or not. And ftr no I didn't realize she was crumbing babysitter because it was a bunch of child words (and I questioned why she was doing it in thread).

Why is Titus' go to insult this game to call people children?

Informed of an innocent child?

i replied to your post with my guess at the time. it was obvious they were hinting at something but it wasn't clear what. but to say you didn't realise they were crumbing something means you ignored my post where i took a shot at what they wer ecrumbing.

[Dwlee99]

I thought your response was a joke.