Newbie 2073: Parfait (Over)

[Val89]

at the time i wondered what he was thinking when he called you out like that. was he concerned about your T3 push? or what? What pinged him about you?

And it just so happened to completely escape your attention that very shortly after, navigator came out with a strong townread on me?

Val: Honestly while the intense start seemed kinda off to me, now that things have entered a more serious stage and he's gotten deep into the scum-hunt (and coming in with the receipts in T3's case), he's gone up there with Meg as one of my strongest town reads.

I know we haven't played together before, but I'm not buying that you thought something very vague another slot said very early in the game, right before that slot then came out with a strong town read was relevant to a read on me D2, unless you were hoping you might imply that Navigator was scumreading me D1 from a single post (he isn't around to ask, but you can ask yourself how likley that is) and the fact he flipped a town PR means you might convince some poor naive sap who somehow forgot that Nav was TRing me from pretty much when I came back off V/LA that nav he was somehow actually trying to tell us I was scum and condemn me from the grave.

Nah, there was another reason that out of EVERYTHING you could have included in your short selection of things you wanted people to look at at comment on, you included that. Your sudden 180 seems like its trying to sell me (and maybe the rest of the thread) that you did so accidently, that've youve now realised your mistake and you don't want to go intot he anti-town discussion you know would result.

Not buying it was accidental. Not one iota.

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

[Save The Dragons]

And it just so happened to completely escape your attention that very shortly after, navigator came out with a strong townread on me?

yes

[Save The Dragons]

Nah, there was another reason that out of EVERYTHING you could have included in your short selection of things you wanted people to look at at comment on, you included that. Your sudden 180 seems like its trying to sell me (and maybe the rest of the thread) that you did so accidently, that've youve now realised your mistake and you don't want to go intot he anti-town discussion you know would result.

what 180

[Save The Dragons]

where i stopped voting for you? you haven't figured out why someone who's town would stop voting for you?

[Val89]

where i stopped voting for you? you haven't figured out why someone who's town would stop voting for you?

No, I'm struggling to figure out why someone who is town, who apparently saw what you saw, voted me in the first place; let alone posted that quote to the thread.

You don't understand why that was scummy as fuck?

[shwinnebego]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

This is my best guess for today.

[shwinnebego]

no because i didn't know what alignment T3 was

knowing that he's town makes me go hmm

Folks, I didn't really thinking I needed to explain in detail why this is crap. I know shwinn came in and said something but I assumed it was scum playacting. Since Roden is also now throwing this around, I guess I'll have to explain.

Until the fakeclaim, StD was openly townreading T3.

T3 and Navigator seem town to me, still reading the rest of y'all

t3 is town i bet. I feel like he would have done something crazy as scum by now. i don't know how accurate that read is but that's what my gut's saying.

Okay, thank you. This helped me to clarify the main thrust of the case.

He did not, perhaps deliberately, give a read on me yesterday.

There are two possibilties, and the question I posed to try and narrow it down that seemed to twig you all was aimed at distigushing between the two.

Either Std was scumreading me yesterday, in which case, as I suggested, he saw someone he thought was scum pushing on someone he thought was town, and decided to say NOTHING about it. I mean, town have decided it would be fun to just straight up throw this game, but what are the chances two townies decide to do that? I think this scenario can be ruled out, and StDs answer seems to imply the second, anyhow.

The other scenario, and the one that StD seems to suggest we are in, is that he was actually townreading me yesterday, and then reconsidered when he say that T3 was in fact, a mislim. I'm going to ask you all to reflect if any of you seriously thought that T3 was going to flip green there, and if so, why you didn't speak up sooner. I think we ALL (with the exception of the 2 scum) expected a red cad there; so StD actual case is "Looking back at it with hindsight, Val started a push on T3 that ended up wrong".

You know, I could possibly buy that that might be grounds for a little bit of suspicion, a reason to start looking at a slot. If we are seriously going to start scumreading anyone who is wrong about anyone, we are in some trouble, but the reason THAT makes no sense in this context is that catboi was ALSO pushing that wagon; as he said himself, there wouldn't have been a T3 wagon without him, and yet, StD says nothing about Catboi, in fact, he gives him a strong townread. If StD was truely re-evaluating postflip, I think catboi would have had to take some flack too - after all, StD has been playing long enough to know it's easier as scum to move forward with a miswagon someone else has started that to invent an entirely original and plausible enough case on a townie to start a wagon from scratch.

[shwinnebego]

Roden, you said you wanted to cast the hammer vote. You still gonna do that?

[shwinnebego]

(There could still be more information to be garnered - specifically I'd be interested in a renewed catboi take and a renewed General Wu take - past that I feel like we might be spinning wheels)

[Roden]

You just hammered, kinda can't now.

[Roden]

We still had five days. All that did was shut down discussion.

[catboi]

Are you kidding me?

[catboi]

good feelings on shwinn are gone

[Val89]

That wasnt hammer. He is at e-1.

[catboi]

I don't think Meg/GeneralWu are scum together but there's likely one in there

[catboi]

You're right, it's not hammer, I just got home, opened the thread, and freaked out.. Okay. Momentary paranoia on shwinn retracted.

[Val89]

You should note that StD CAN self-hammer here; so, to make sure catboi has a chance to say his piece.


UNVOTE:

[Val89]

Don't take that to mean I'm not limming StD today, short of a game breaking revelation, I most certainly am revoting, once everyones said what they feel they need to.

[Roden]

I was hoping no one would say anything, I wanted to see StD's reaction.

[Val89]

I've said this before in other games, and I'll say it again now - that move is a load of crap.

Say StD goes "Oh shit, you just hammed a townie you idiots!"; how do you know that is actually guenine, or if he can simply...you know...count?

[Roden]

Roden, you said you wanted to cast the hammer vote. You still gonna do that?

Don't take that to mean I'm not limming StD today, short of a game breaking revelation, I most certainly am revoting, once everyones said what they feel they need to.

Yeah I'll hammer that. If you know why, then you know why.

[Roden]

I've said this before in other games, and I'll say it again now - that move is a load of crap.

Say StD goes "Oh shit, you just hammed a townie you idiots!"; how do you know that is actually guenine, or if he can simply...you know...count?

That's like asking if it's worth trying to read anyone ever because you don't know if someone is genuine or not. This strat saved a townie and got my buddy elim'd instead in my first scum game, so I've seen it work.

[Val89]

It only takes one scumbuddy to fake hammer, one scum to do the "You hammered a townie!" routine, and one town who was on the the wagon to buy it to save one scum who was otherwise up for the chop; and suddenly you will have scumbuddies everywhere trying their luck risk free.

It might have worked once in the other direction, but I am of the opinion that if you are playing mafia, you can probably count to four.

[Val89]

This strat saved a townie and got my buddy elim'd instead in my first scum game, so I've seen it work.

Actually, come again? Which game was this?

I thought I had read all your games but I don't remember this one, so I might have missed one. I would be interesting to see another scum!Roden game if I have.

[Roden]

It only takes one scumbuddy to fake hammer, one scum to do the "You hammered a townie!" routine, and one town who was on the the wagon to buy it to save one scum who was otherwise up for the chop; and suddenly you will have scumbuddies everywhere trying their luck risk free.

It might have worked once in the other direction, but I am of the opinion that if you are playing mafia, you can probably count to four.

I mean, yes. But at that point it's up to town to read that situation and figure it out. If scum want to try that gambit they have a very high chance of revealing themselves if they can't sell it to the rest of town, so it's still good info at the very least.

This strat saved a townie and got my buddy elim'd instead in my first scum game, so I've seen it work.

Actually, come again? Which game was this?

I thought I had read all your games but I don't remember this one, so I might have missed one. I would be interesting to see another scum!Roden game if I have.

Newbie 2066

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86832