mini normal 2226; who won

[Datisi]

Datisi => I don't think you post 512 as scum here. This shows an attentiveness to vote counts that you'd naturally have to keep up as scum.

there is a very specific reason i posted that, i was gonna wait until flubber reacted but he got replaced and prism did react so

there is a tell that i call "the iconeum tell" bc he taught it to me, the idea is that if you have two ~scummy wagons, and the two wagonees are playing around each other awkwardly, and/or are avoiding each other like the plague, they're more likely to be scum/scum wagons. (i used this in a recent c9++)

flubber's "lol why are we wagoning the v/la" struck me as possibly that, because obviously scum!flubber doesn't wanna die, but also doesn't wanna vote his buddy counterwagon. but i had to wait for meg. and once meg was like "flubber is scummy", *no vote*, and after saying they like having a vote on someone at all times? yeah it did no good things to that read

flubber dud end up voting meg, but ehhh his vote was... awkward at best. and prism entering with screaming about how dare we wagon meg, and immediately trying to discredit me based on ~tone~

will properly read the rest later, i skimmed a bit and this from math caught my eye so wanted to elaborate

[Datisi]

i will note that prism disliked my other post more than the tone, before someone starts yelling at me.

[Vulture]

Vulture, I'm very curious about your townread on Lukewarm.

To be blunt, I do not like your ISO, which is perhaps to be expected but it is how I feel nonetheless. Scum are heavily incentivized to play lower key Day 1/2 if they can get away with it.

This is the least surprising development and playing lower key is not just about this game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Given my level of engagement, however, and being reminded of Luke in every other town game that he’s played with no tonal differences (and also thinking that his town game is fairly exceptional) I have no reason not townread him for today. Other scumreads elsewhere to work with means I’m fine with meager reasons on a townread that seemingly everyone else also is fine with.

[Vulture]

Despite Meg elaborating it feels like most roads still lead to her as my vote. Or Chaos, I guess.

[Prism]

Will respond to the rest later as I start waking up but Datisi I would like you to be more specific/actually engaging with the substance of my response.

My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing. If you think I'm scum okay but consider humoring me.

I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments. I have a sneaking suspicion that Meg flipping town will not earn me a townread, which is fair, but focus on one player at a time.

[Aristeia]

In your theory, do you think that her push on me was supposed to work?

Or are you saying that she scum read me to get a town read, to then pivot to someone else?

Prism is very good at scum so yes

[Aristeia]

attacking the heaviest townread players and town leadership is a very good way to seize thread control if you are good at creating a false narrative.

its something prism has to do if flubber/meg is s/s.

[Prism]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

[Datisi]

okay so - re meg's 601

do you think alchemist is doing that in a scummy or townie way? why?

the explanation for aristeia feels off. you say how aristeia doesn't want to steer conversation in any given direction. then you note how scum *can* steer convos in a game, but then they would appear to have an agenda, and aristeia doesn't seem to have an agenda so she's town - but you just said that she's not steering the conversation? where would you expect that "agenda" to show up then?

*why* does my play come across as townie? like, what's making you sure that i'm town genuinely running around as opposed to scum looking to push through misyeets? especially considering you're currently my main target?

the luke/omega fight seems like a playstyle clash when you describe it that way, sure. but scum has a playstyle as well. so again, why is this t/t?

[Datisi]

Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.

what about my tone is weird? and what is wrong with my questioning? or rather a better question would be, have you read the things i was questioning?

[Aristeia]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.

You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread

Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.

[Datisi]

My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing.

you should maybe look at the slot's prior post before judging that one, because it was mostly getting grilled for providing poor/surface-level analysis, and it was obvious that people wanted "more proper analysis" from them - why is the asking for more time unlikely to come from a newbie? (and besides, i don't think meg is a newbie anyway, they said they played elsewhere and seem to be well versed in reasonings to read someone a certain way or the lingo or whatever)

[Datisi]

I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments.

does this mean you don't like it or that you find it scummy? i can understand the first one, regardless of your/meg's alignment really, but i'm gonna need some very good justification if you're trying to say you find it scummy.

[Prism]

I feel like there are way easier people to try and pivot the thread onto

Why not go after Chaos? Or Vulture? Or Umlaut? Or Titus? Or you?

Those all seem like easier people to pivot to then me, right?

why do it the easy way if the hard way gets you townread and allows you better positioning to take thread control?

you are making an assumption about Prism wanting to do things the easy way.

The hypothetical point of shoving Lukewarm would have been to get a townread from him over the course of several real life days. Again, this is within range. I think his response was decent.

Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.

I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.

[Prism]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.

You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread

Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.

This completely ignores my more aggressive tendencies. I can & do slow down when I want to but there are times even as town when you should be direct, vocal, and fast.

[Aristeia]

Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.

I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.

I think your town game is more marked by questioning and doubt.

You've been burned in the past by derailing a runaway bandwagon on scum before and you'd need significantly more evidence than a one post snap-read to try to do it here.

You demand the best from yourself and your team.

I don't think you/meg can get away with playing passively here, if meg flips red it will look very suspicious why she didn't try at all to vote/push an alternative, it casts suspicion onto the Altwagon which is you.

I think you went with the method of attack that had the best odds of resetting the narrative and taking control of the thread. I don't believe town!you does that here with no information coming in cold to a game.

[Prism]

Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.

what about my tone is weird? and what is wrong with my questioning? or rather a better question would be, have you read the things i was questioning?

I didn't like the more ingratiating approach with MathBlade. There is town incentive there to be so direct/accomodating but I remembered a more paranoid Datisi from ye olden days. The tone is the weaker part of this and I put little stock in it. If you didn't consider it more ingratiating then okay.

My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing.

you should maybe look at the slot's prior post before judging that one, because it was mostly getting grilled for providing poor/surface-level analysis, and it was obvious that people wanted "more proper analysis" from them - why is the asking for more time unlikely to come from a newbie? (and besides, i don't think meg is a newbie anyway, they said they played elsewhere and seem to be well versed in reasonings to read someone a certain way or the lingo or whatever)

Fair criticism, will do & circle back. Luke also requested this of me.

I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments.

does this mean you don't like it or that you find it scummy? i can understand the first one, regardless of your/meg's alignment really, but i'm gonna need some very good justification if you're trying to say you find it scummy.

I meant the former. I did not appreciate my question being outright ignored for a preflip on your end and by fear on Aristia's.

Alignment wise I did not like it until I realized you weren't likely intentionally dodging my question but we more genuinely curious as to what it meant for me, at which point I changed my post to accommodate that. Probably within range but eh.

[Prism]

Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.

I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.

I think your town game is more marked by questioning and doubt.

You've been burned in the past by derailing a runaway bandwagon on scum before and you'd need significantly more evidence than a one post snap-read to try to do it here.

You demand the best from yourself and your team.

I don't think you/meg can get away with playing passively here, if meg flips red it will look very suspicious why she didn't try at all to vote/push an alternative, it casts suspicion onto the Altwagon which is you.

I think you went with the method of attack that had the best odds of resetting the narrative and taking control of the thread. I don't believe town!you does that here with no information coming in cold to a game.

I absolutely have been burned by bad reads and my own aggressiveness, yet a cursory glance of my recent meta will reveal I am more aggressive than ever. I am wrong and I am wrong like clockwork, and I may be on Meg as well.

Casting my play this game as not marked by questioning & doubt is willfully blind. Go revisit and think how I am leveraging the snapreads/ISOs.

[Aristeia]

This completely ignores my more aggressive tendencies. I can & do slow down when I want to but there are times even as town when you should be direct, vocal, and fast.

This is a technical response to my question that is designed to sound reasonable by expanding out the response window.

I agree there are times you must be direct, vocal, and fast.

I'm saying it doesn't make sense for

town you to do that in this instance

and it feels to me as the action of someone with an informed agenda.

[Datisi]

re 691:

i can see my tone seeming like that, but that is just How I Talk and if this game turns into me having to dig ten billion meta examples of me Talking Like That i am gonna scream. though i'm not sure how you remembering a more paranoid datisi makes you ease up on that read? and sorry, what question was i avoiding there?

[Aristeia]

I absolutely have been burned by bad reads and my own aggressiveness, yet a cursory glance of my recent meta will reveal I am more aggressive than ever. I am wrong and I am wrong like clockwork, and I may be on Meg as well.

Casting my play this game as not marked by questioning & doubt is willfully blind. Go revisit and think how I am leveraging the snapreads/ISOs.

I'm not casting your play this game as not marked by questioning/doubt.

I am casing your entrance posts into this game as being unnaturally confident based off very limited information.

It also happens to be the method I believe scum!you would enter this thread in with a partner in danger of being eliminated.

[Prism]

My point is directly that I do believe it makes sense to play this way, see: above posts with Datisi. If it doesn't get me better reads, then okay, but I am intentional with my play and this game is no exception.

I am fine ceding the point that I plausibly go this aggressive as scum.

[T3]

Aristeia like actually makes sense.

[Prism]

I can wax on about my takeaways from the last X games in conjunction with preexisting ideas but I'm going to skip it.

[MathBlade]

I don’t want an opinion on something specific. I want you to show me you have reads and are scum/town hunting however you do it. If you’re town I want you to convince me that my read of you is wrong by being deep. If you showing your thoughts means pushing someone do that. If it means a read wall do that. Show me you have reads don’t tell me you do and ask me how to get out of the proverbial dog house.

Right now my solve is Prism - Meg - Alchemist21.


I don't like the way Prism entered the thread or the way Flubber voted for Meg.

I don't think it makes sense as town!prism, it feels like scum!prism entered, saw the top two wagons were scum!prism + scum!meg and decided to try to powerwolf and take control of the thread.

Specifically this entry post:

UNVOTE:

Given 610 and Meg's relative inexperience-why is this slot even on the table?

I will be reading over the game tomorrow and perhaps can answer my own question then.

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

This is better as it gives me something to read but bad in that the reason for Prism is bad and no mention of why the Alch scumread and barely a thought to Meg. Your entire worldview seems built on Prism scum and the “silly because” logic.

This post however is not bad.

Take point 1 no one has had a chance to respond to it.

Assume 610 was the moderator coming down saying Meg was town. No wiggle room. And you saw the wagon at a moderate size. You’d be angry right? And Prism was angry. Whether or not someone had time to respond doesn’t magically quell that anger.

And about the reason voting for her, so what? Sometimes people coming in fresh have a perspective different than those already in the game. Why would Prism have to have read the game before forming a read on Meg? Some posts are just townslips. I think if this second reason was your opinion you should have gone about this differently.

Overall I like the fact you’re doing something readable now but I am not impressed with the content.