mini normal 2226; who won

[Titus]

VOTE: Chaos

I like Meg's recent posts.

Give me the tl;dr on Chaos? (I realize this is kind of a silly phrasing given Chaos has all of 6 posts but you know what I mean)

That's the problem. Town Chaos is more leadery or tries to be.

I can only recall one game I've played with Chaos (years ago), and he was town in that game and was pretty much like this. Maybe his meta has changed though?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86774

[Prism]

For Chaos, 2007 join date means this is likely stylistic, but posting more doesn't mean you have to hyperpost like me/several others. It's just very hard both to push successfully & get a gauge on you if you're playing in such an isolated/quarantined way, and there is a healthy medium here.

Right now it just feels like you're passively pushing the pet scumread without really investing the energy/personal vulnerability to sell it.

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

Probably going to go Chaos -> Gamma -> read whole game. Will be shocked if I don't have hardreads on Lukewarm/Vulture/Gamma by the end of it.

Good. I hope our reads match there but I hope you get a townlean on Gamma and Lukewarm. If you trust me, please do so.

Given our, uh, previous track record for matching up (Warehouse/Happy Face as willow) I wouldn't hold my breath but this is a New Game and There Is Hope

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

Probably going to go Chaos -> Gamma -> read whole game. Will be shocked if I don't have hardreads on Lukewarm/Vulture/Gamma by the end of it.

Good. I hope our reads match there but I hope you get a townlean on Gamma and Lukewarm. If you trust me, please do so.

Given our, uh, previous track record for matching up (Warehouse/Happy Face as willow) I wouldn't hold my breath but this is a New Game and There Is Hope

Fair enough. I'm aiming for unlimmable but to confuse scum as to who to nightkill.

[Prism]

Looking at 762 I take it back Titus, maybe this is The Game

[Titus]

For Chaos, 2007 join date means this is likely stylistic, but posting more doesn't mean you have to hyperpost like me/several others. It's just very hard both to push successfully & get a gauge on you if you're playing in such an isolated/quarantined way, and there is a healthy medium here.

Fair enough as a general rule but he broke it previously

[MegAzumarill]

Lukewarm wrote:
post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon? -This seems like a natural question from Chaos’s perspective, as the a addition of a comment with his vote parroting what already was said seems awfully, redundant, but it seems like that is what Lukewarm is asking for.

Lukewarm wrote:
And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has? - this seems like the only way someone could respond to this accusation, trying to explain why that interpretation of their behavior wouldn’t make sense as scum. Overall this accusation on Chaos isn’t built on anything solid.

This was right before a large amount of backlash on the post, but mostly "its scummy" or similar. What is your guys' particular problem with the post?

[Alchemist21]

Lukewarm wrote:
post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon? -This seems like a natural question from Chaos’s perspective, as the a addition of a comment with his vote parroting what already was said seems awfully, redundant, but it seems like that is what Lukewarm is asking for.

Lukewarm wrote:
And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has? - this seems like the only way someone could respond to this accusation, trying to explain why that interpretation of their behavior wouldn’t make sense as scum. Overall this accusation on Chaos isn’t built on anything solid.

This was right before a large amount of backlash on the post, but mostly "its scummy" or similar. What is your guys' particular problem with the post?

All his energy this game has been put into justifying his actions as seen above rather than actually hunting scum. It looks more like scum trying to coast by with minimal effort.

[Prism]

I'm still going to be reading over the next day or so but I'm going to let the game breathe for a bit. Ideally I find a scumread but I'm more comfortable with the game+pacing now.

Really want more from Vulture even though I don't think I need it for their alignment.

[Lukewarm]

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

[Gamma Emerald]

last few posts are pretty bad. Gamma's played with me enough to know that I'm top tier scum so if Gamma genuinely thought I was scum I think he'd go back and make a genuine case. I'm going to stick with town for now, but that read is degrading fast.

I’m not quite certain you’re scum, I just think your theory crafting is off base in a way that indicates you have low expectations for the quality of tris’ modding, and imo there’s no reason for you to feel that way

[MegAzumarill]

Lukewarm wrote:
post 71, joins the Flubber wagon with no comment on it what so ever.

Post 101, asks Seanzie for thoughts on the flubber interaction, but still has not voiced any thoughts on it themselves

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon? -This seems like a natural question from Chaos’s perspective, as the a addition of a comment with his vote parroting what already was said seems awfully, redundant, but it seems like that is what Lukewarm is asking for.

Lukewarm wrote:
And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has? - this seems like the only way someone could respond to this accusation, trying to explain why that interpretation of their behavior wouldn’t make sense as scum. Overall this accusation on Chaos isn’t built on anything solid.

This was right before a large amount of backlash on the post, but mostly "its scummy" or similar. What is your guys' particular problem with the post?

All his energy this game has been put into justifying his actions as seen above rather than actually hunting scum. It looks more like scum trying to coast by with minimal effort.

This is a really weird observation as just briefly looking at their ISO it is evident that's not true.

Do you get similar feelings from 26/30 by Flubber? If not, what makes them feel different?

Seanzie, any thoughts about the Flubber/Umlaut interaction?

As for other reads I have, Umlaut, Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.

I am also interested in his jump off of Flubber, but I think his interaction with your slot has a weirder vibe. He votes you, tries being really nice not wanting to step on your toes at all, you post a readlist where he's town, and then he jumps off and says you're a top town read. It doesn't feel genuine./

I'm going to talk about this more further down, but it feels mechanical, like you're going through motions to look town and not actually scumhunting. It doesn't feel like you were trying to sort Aristeia, it feels like you were trying to buddy them and look productive while doing so.

285 from Alchemist feels weird to me bringing up his post count. It's not done explicitly, but it feels like he's trying to use that to show his towniness. I feel the same thing as Meg in 284 that I'm getting weird vibes from him, but I think there's a decent chance this is just playstyle difference, so I'm not really interested pushing there today.

They seem to be actively trying to hunt scum in every one of their post, I would like to hear more from them though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Have the vibes from you been bad, yes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re scum, but if you’re not scum I think you need some correction on what “normal” means to you

[Datisi]

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

what's your opinion on the newer stuff that meg's posted?

[Gamma Emerald]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.

You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread

Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.

Hrm

[Gamma Emerald]

Aristeia like actually makes sense.

I guess so, but something seems off with her posts

[MathBlade]

last few posts are pretty bad. Gamma's played with me enough to know that I'm top tier scum so if Gamma genuinely thought I was scum I think he'd go back and make a genuine case. I'm going to stick with town for now, but that read is degrading fast.

I’m not quite certain you’re scum, I just think your theory crafting is off base in a way that indicates you have low expectations for the quality of tris’ modding, and imo there’s no reason for you to feel that way

1) Poking a setup of which I believe to still be within the normal rules is not an attack on the quality of Tris’s modding. The entire point was I thought this was going to be similar to extra communication mafia and subvert expectations.

2) I literally just got done with a game where the mods gave town way too much power. The literal name of the game with the past few games I have been in is subvert expectations. It was in Calculasia and Boonskiies to name a few.

3) I have never been in a tris game before and not giving scum a PT imho is a brilliant setup design plan. I do not consider it “not mafia” as the mod said.

I think this post is disgusting as fuck here. Like you seriously make up crap about me not having scumread Chaos and now you’re poking at a bear long since dead? Are you trying to piss me off here? It’s working.

[MathBlade]

If you wanna scumread me go right the fuck ahead but don’t you dare say I am attacking the moderator’s skill to do it.

[Lukewarm]

I am considering moving my vote to meg, which, I

know

.

I was the one saying Chaos>Meg, and now people are moving my way, but yeah.

x.x

what's your opinion on the newer stuff that meg's posted?

Their read list in 509 578 felt made up.

The exact single line on each and every player I think is part of what makes it seem manufactured, because I feel like the average player actually has lots and lots of thoughts on some slots, but then not very many thoughts on others. So, the single line on each feels more like someone trying to manufacture a read list.

And even following that, it has taken questions for Meg to expound on things. And the way they have expounded, feels more like a conversation in abstraction then how they feel about each player they are talking about. Like, why each action could be read the way they read them in the read lists, as opposed to what they think about each player.

I'm fine to be today's mislim but I would like to discuss my analysis more in depth, especially when more people are online.

Try to curb your trigger happy hammering and not cut the day short, I have more to say but the discussion will take some time.

This line did nothing for me, and looks like just trying to buy time, and does not give me town feels

[Gamma Emerald]

The behavior/approach itself is what I found town even if there's scum incentive. I would not townread more experienced players for the same behavior.

I will grab you backlinks of me playing exactly this way as town if you insist.

If you had been playing all along and had context/progression on her slot I would agree that it absolutely makes sense for you to townread her here.

However you are replacing in cold.

The replacement was announced just a few minutes prior.

It's impossible for you to actually have done the work necessary and I don't think Town!You does a derail with not even doing the work because town!you is a perfectionist at these games to the point of unhealthy obssession.

Idk about this

@Prism

did you have a particular interest in this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Of course, I am supposing a competent scumteam and an incompetent or disabled town when I say that.

wat

[Prism]

I did not, I have been eager for any game at all and this was the first playerlist I found even vaguely playable. See: My hyperposting/aggression in Coalition before I was forced to replaceout.

What Aristeia is commenting on is my general attitude towards games, that of an obsessive perfectionist, but is wrong in arguing that this approach prevents me from starting very aggressive/headstrong as town. I am very eager to grow and take risks as town: I am relentless as town, but am an absolute perfectionist as scum. I will spend days and weeks puzzling over reads & how to get the most of players as town, but as scum I am an absolute control freak who can't stand losing. If I am scum I 100% have read this game already and am pretending not to. While a counterfactual, any glance over my scumgames will confirm this as it dates back years and is always mentioned in notes PT/postgames.

The above linked Coalition is also where my suspicion on a Vulture-tell derives, unfortunately you (Gamma) came out strong early this game and thus will not have the hydra-specific tell he did in Coalition.

[T3]

Prism has cleansed herself of Flubbers sins.

[Gamma Emerald]

last few posts are pretty bad. Gamma's played with me enough to know that I'm top tier scum so if Gamma genuinely thought I was scum I think he'd go back and make a genuine case. I'm going to stick with town for now, but that read is degrading fast.

I’m not quite certain you’re scum, I just think your theory crafting is off base in a way that indicates you have low expectations for the quality of tris’ modding, and imo there’s no reason for you to feel that way

1) Poking a setup of which I believe to still be within the normal rules is not an attack on the quality of Tris’s modding. The entire point was I thought this was going to be similar to extra communication mafia and subvert expectations.

2) I literally just got done with a game where the mods gave town way too much power. The literal name of the game with the past few games I have been in is subvert expectations. It was in Calculasia and Boonskiies to name a few.

3) I have never been in a tris game before and not giving scum a PT imho is a brilliant setup design plan. I do not consider it “not mafia” as the mod said.

I think this post is disgusting as fuck here. Like you seriously make up crap about me not having scumread Chaos and now you’re poking at a bear long since dead? Are you trying to piss me off here? It’s working.

Tbh I don’t have an issue with the theory about no Mafia PT, though I don’t think that would pass either. My problem was with you thinking using Discord as a substitute in order to subvert expectations would be something any normal reviewer would pass. Expectations can be subverted in normals but telling what is in essence a mod lie is not what I’d consider fair game.
And like, I kinda don’t care that you think my post is “disgusting” when IMO your own actions have felt pretty terrible.

[Prism]

Unfortunately Coalition doesn't actually dive further into why Vulture's lack of caring is AI but tl;dr: they're the reverse Bell and I will get vicious if I go further but it's a townlean