Newbie 2073: Parfait (Over)

[catboi]

We're in MELo, we can't vote freely anymore since a mis-elim means we get endgamed

No, we are not. Don't buy the crap catboi is selling here; We WOULD have been in MELO if scum killed last night, but there was no-kill; and so there is an extra player (six, not seven, I give you that) that there would have otherwise been, and thus another chance today.

In any case, even if catboi truely beleived we were in MELO, wouldn't that be an even stronger reason to vote the slot you are suddenly sure is scum, and encourage others to do so?

I'm not going to rush the day. Keep mudslinging though.

[shwinnebego]

We're in MELo, we can't vote freely anymore since a mis-elim means we get endgamed

No, we are not. Don't buy the crap catboi is selling here; We WOULD have been in MELO if scum killed last night, but there was no-kill; and so there is an extra player (six, not seven, I give you that) that there would have otherwise been, and thus another chance today.

In any case, even if catboi truely beleived we were in MELO, wouldn't that be an even stronger reason to vote the slot you are suddenly sure is scum, and encourage others to do so?

There are 6 players, 2 of them are evil

If we quorum a good player, then there will be 5 players, 2 of whom are evil
Then tonight, the evils will nightkill a good, so there will be 4 players, 2 of whom are evil.

This ends the game, because there will be 2 evils and 2 goods. That is parity. Am I misunderstanding how this game works or are you

[shwinnebego]

We're in MELo, we can't vote freely anymore since a mis-elim means we get endgamed

In any case, even if catboi truely beleived we were in MELO,

This really isn't a belief, it's a fact. Unless the wolves fail to submit a nightkill order.

[shwinnebego]

I feel like I'm talking to a flat-earther

[shwinnebego]

Actually I could see Val being a flat-earther, galactic analysis of random noise coupled with boorish denial of very obvious truths

[catboi]

I think a val scumflip means STD and Roden are basically always town. Would peg the partner as being between shwinn and GeneralWu. I like shwinn's posting more but have no idea of his range and him and Val have been sort of dancing around each other with suspicion the whole game. That's be my guess but not highly confident on it.

If val is town, whatever, this whole game is a travesty start to finish but I was never going to get there

[Roden]

Why would you gambit something like that unless you were 100% certain StD was scum? And how could you be 100% certain?

I

AM

as sure as I can be that StD that is scum, here, Roden - and the longer catboi pretends that he doesn't know the scum play today is to shade me but not vote me, and the longer he shouts "val is scum" without following it through with a vote, the more confident I am catboi is his partner.

Ask yourself, did StD actually back off, or did he just constantly complain I wasn't outlining the case against him in the hope I would back off my soft claim? As I said yesterday, StD continuing to complain I hadn't outlined the case against him, while simulatainously demonstrating he understood I was soft-claiming mason reads to me like scum frustrated it

was

only a softclaim, and wanted a hard claim, so there wasn't any doubts and they could nightkill me knowing nothing could stop them. I wasn't about to fake claim, but I was going to continue to soft since it was very obvious StD thought he found a crumb, and I thought I could very well draw the night kill last night from them.

Like I said then:

I take the continued and repeated attempts by the slots I find most scummy at this point (StD and Shwinn) to continue to attempt to draw my slot in particular into further explanation on my case against StD (and note they are kicking up a fuss specifically against Val not having given a fully fleshed out case, despite StD being scumread and voted by multiple slots) as evidence scum might still have some residual doubts they want to try and resolve before today ends.

The problem here is that if you think the team is StD/Catboi, StD's responses to you yesterday don't necessarily come from scum because Shwinn thought you were being unnecessarily obtuse yesterday as well. That was a whole big that happened, to the point that I accused him of buddying, but now it looks actually valid.

This entire thing turned out to be a gambit now though and I don't see how you could've known StD would flip red. Your push was based almost entirely on you being a Mason but you aren't even a Mason. So if you're town, wtf were you expecting to happen if you were just wrong and StD flipped green? Hell, what if Meg waited until Day 3 to counter claim? Regardless of StD's flip, we always vote you Day 3 in a world where Meg survives and CC's you.

Like, I'm just struggling to understand what you expected to happen the following day.

Is that a SECOND slot suggesting I am the scummiest slot in the game, without following through with a vote?

I didn't even say that? Why don't you expect to look scummy when T3 made a similar play and got voted out for it?

[Roden]

We're in MELo, we can't vote freely anymore since a mis-elim means we get endgamed

No, we are not. Don't buy the crap catboi is selling here; We WOULD have been in MELO if scum killed last night, but there was no-kill; and so there is an extra player (six, not seven, I give you that) that there would have otherwise been, and thus another chance today.

In any case, even if catboi truely beleived we were in MELO, wouldn't that be an even stronger reason to vote the slot you are suddenly sure is scum, and encourage others to do so?

There are 6 players, 2 of them are evil

If we quorum a good player, then there will be 5 players, 2 of whom are evil
Then tonight, the evils will nightkill a good, so there will be 4 players, 2 of whom are evil.

This ends the game, because there will be 2 evils and 2 goods. That is parity. Am I misunderstanding how this game works or are you

We don't even go to the Night phase. We know we don't have any protective roles due to Masons, so a mis-elim is an automatic endgame since nothing can stop the kill.

[GeneralWu]

I feel like I'm talking to a flat-earther

Flat is justice.

I'm still going through everything, by the way.

[GeneralWu]

By the way, the best choice is to not eliminate anyone today.

[catboi]

By the way, the best choice is to not eliminate anyone today.

In all likelihood the no-kill was done tactically and mfia will continue to no-kill to force the cycle until we either eliminate or come to a draw (as per the rules, I believe, a certain cycle of no elim/no kill ends the game in a draw). Would be a rather disappointing way to end a newbie game, even one that's been as mismanaged as this one.


However, I actually feel like you're towny just for making this post because I don't see mafia making an intentional no-kill and then immediately suggesting a vote for no elimination.

[shwinnebego]

Here's an argument for catboi being evil:

Catboi was one of the most town-read players in the game and in my view would have been the obvious nightkill target for the evil team.

Everyone else has been part of some manner of circular firing squad or another.

Therefore, I think it's likely that, if the nokill was intentional (which seems likely - the night phase was so long and we know folks were generally around), then catboi is likely to be evil.

[catboi]

I don't think there's any reason I intentionally nokill here. It's a much greater advantage to have the game be winnable with 1 townie being wrong, rather than two. But we can cross that bridge if I'm still around on later days.

[shwinnebego]

The way I see it, the wolves realized that town would be in mislim and lose regardless of whether or not there was a nightkill.

With a 6 player mislim and lose, there are more ways for town to get it wrong than there are with 5 player mislim and lose.

Either way well played, wolves. Town solidly has approximately jackshit to go on lol

[shwinnebego]

Yeah I guess I can't actually come to any conclusions about this that don't end up super in the "wine in front of me," flipping back and forth among different explanations thing.;

If catboi is not a wolf then the wolves would want to eliminate catboi because he was so townie, but by not eliminating him they kept him in to attract precisely this sort of suspicion (which would otherwise more likely have fallen on them), but also catboi as a wolf would certainly want to avoid narrowing the field down by surviving, but ... etc

Yeah, not productive, abandoning that line of inquiry. I'm honestly quite flabbergasted right now. I'm keeping my vote on Val cuz he has so many pings against him but, yeah, i'unno

[GuyInFreezer]

Val89 is being replaced.

[catboi]

I have no real guess as to why they no-killed here either. Seems as though it'd be much more advantageous to have someone die. The only think I can think of is conspiracy theorizing around wanting people to vote val. But the fact that Val is going on incoherently about the nokill and acting like there's a spare elimination makes me think this was a move on his part to try to be confusing.


I think barring further input, I'll be voting Val. Even in the event we don't eliminate today, the lack of a hammer provides info on the following day.

[catboi]

I...okay.

[catboi]

I was going to type up a vote here because I don't even want to have someone replace into that slot but I feel as though that's bad form here. So I wait.

[catboi]

Sigh. You know what?

VOTE: no elimination

[Roden]

I honestly don't know what to even think here other than we probably just lose now. We needed to question Val and it's literally impossible to sort his replacement, since they won't be able to know what his thought process was if he was town and will have nothing to work with if they're scum.

[catboi]

It's very confusing and frustrating, yes.

[shwinnebego]

As much as it's a bit of a pain in the ass for whoever replaces Val, I'd like to just eliminate that player today and see what happens.

keepin' my vote on val/val's replacement

I hope folks will join me in hammering val and ending this game, it's getting a bit tedious tbh

[Save The Dragons]

damn

[shwinnebego]

(or not ending it if he turns out to be evil, i guess, but if people wanna spend another week of real life time spinning our wheels and relitigating the minutiae of wtf val was on about without val here i will probably need to request a replacement myself)