Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[Salsabil Faria]

No, that whole post is an appeal to Math not to eliminate N_M for bad reasons before the Day ends. We can eliminate him at deadline if we have to, but cutting the day short is giving scum refuge to wait out the day without contributing anything we can use to read them later. Even if N_M is scum, we still have to catch his partner.

2.a. is a case on you. 2.b. is a case on Salsa, and part of my read on Salsa is a pre-flip associative with scum!You,

not

the other way around. The main reason Salsa is scum is her self-voting and ATE in context with the DGB wagon as well as her self-voting and ATE today. I see those as weaker reasons for her to be scum than the reasons posted in 2.a. about you.

Then flip me today, what is stopping you?? After seeing me flip, it'll help you to sort others, that's what you're saying right? Then why you're not pushing me or even better, why you're not convincing anyone to eliminate me today???
I don't recall from how long I want

Dwlee

's elimination over anything but have to take myself back from that because of

you

guys!!
Now, you think I'm scum with

Dwlee

??? Hilarious!

I didn't want to use my own meta before, but you're giving me no choice rn. My scum games so far:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=85994
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86864

[Salsabil Faria]

Finally I get a page top!

[Salsabil Faria]

I always vote self voters

VOTE: geraintm

[Salsabil Faria]

Ok, going back to lurk

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, that whole post is an appeal to Math not to eliminate N_M for bad reasons before the Day ends. We can eliminate him at deadline if we have to, but cutting the day short is giving scum refuge to wait out the day without contributing anything we can use to read them later. Even if N_M is scum, we still have to catch his partner.

2.a. is a case on you. 2.b. is a case on Salsa, and part of my read on Salsa is a pre-flip associative with scum!You,

not

the other way around. The main reason Salsa is scum is her self-voting and ATE in context with the DGB wagon as well as her self-voting and ATE today. I see those as weaker reasons for her to be scum than the reasons posted in 2.a. about you.

Then flip me today, what is stopping you?? After seeing me flip, it'll help you to sort others, that's what you're saying right? Then why you're not pushing me or even better, why you're not convincing anyone to eliminate me today???
I don't recall from how long I want

Dwlee

's elimination over anything but have to take myself back from that because of

you

guys!!
Now, you think I'm scum with

Dwlee

??? Hilarious!

I didn't want to use my own meta before, but you're giving me no choice rn. My scum games so far:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=85994
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86864

@Salsa, I think Dwlee is scum, and I think you could be scum with him. However, I also think N_M could be scum with dwlee. Dwlee is the common denominator amongst these teams.

Separately, my degree of confidence on Dwlee I'd say is at around 80% right now. I'd but you around 65, and N_M at 50. Mathblade around 10 (this goes up if Dwlee is scum), and Marci around 20.

Dwlee is both my most confident scumread, and is the common denominator amongst 2 probable pairings.

You act like you want to vote dwlee, but you won't stick to it, possibly because you're distancing from your partner, or possibly to muddy the waters. Given my individual reads on you two, I would say the former is more likely. On D2, when it seemed apparent that omo and dwlee had both not been voting DGB with he rest of the voting block intentionally on D1, you pushed for omo's wagon over dwlee's, but also distanced from Dwlee verbally that day.

This is exactly the kind of distancing from Dwlee that Salsa has been doing all day - seeing something so blatant, I dont understand how the consensus can be on N_M today.

[Not_Mafia]

I always vote self voters

VOTE: geraintm

VOTE: geraintm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What I'm worried about is if we flip town!N_M is that there isn't a clear plan for MELO. Math has been willing to engage before and now that it's about Dwlee he's not down. I don't think this town will vote Dwlee tomorrow and that loses to deepwolf Math.

If we do Dwlee today and he is town though, that eliminates deepwolf Math from the likely pairings imo, given.his persistence on N_M today. That leaves N_M and Salsabil and I feel like in town!Dwlee world there is no way that's not the team.

Even if you dont want to talk about it in thread to prevent scum from having info on who to elim (bad reasoning as scum will be eliminating the conftown), think to yourself about what is left over for tomorrow's MELO on town!N_M flip vs. town!Dwlee flip.

[Dwlee99]

What's your plan for when I flip town Kyo? Then you'll kill the person doing nothing that you don't feel strongly about being town one way or the other?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you flip town, then either Salsabil or N_M is fine with me as I don't see Marci being scum here, and I only see scum!MathBlade with scum!Dwlee. I would prefer Salsa tomorrow, still for individual reasons, then Final 4 should be Me, Math, Marci, and N_M, and of those 4, N_M is clearly the scum imo. You should agree with me as well because you have vibes that Marci and Salsa are not teamed.

Assuming you are town, can you not see what Salsa is doing today? Why would you want N_M over Salsa? In fact, for anyone who is voting N_M (geraintm I've seen your reasoning but feel free to add more regarding Salsa if you like), why do you want to eliminate N_M

more than

anyone else?

It seems like everyone is afraid of having him in MELO tomorrow, but nobody but geraintm or I have offered reasoning as to why he is scum (that I can recall). The fact that everyone's quietly letting this happen feels wrong - does nobody else get that feeling?

[Dwlee99]

My issue is what if salsa AND Marci are town and you're deepwolf. I think I trust math enough. If he is scum he is doing a really good job buddying me. Math!scum wins the game if I die anyway because you said you wouldn't kill him unless I flip red, which I'm not going to. But fmpov I think NM + Salsa or NM + Kyo are possible. So I think it is best to kill the common link there.

[geraintm]

VOTE: not mafia

Voting an innocent child....scummy behaviour

[geraintm]

They aren't fighting their elimination.
Are they hoping we will all get bored?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: dwlww

[MathBlade]

If you flip town, then either Salsabil or N_M is fine with me as I don't see Marci being scum here, and I only see scum!MathBlade with scum!Dwlee. I would prefer Salsa tomorrow, still for individual reasons, then Final 4 should be Me, Math, Marci, and N_M, and of those 4, N_M is clearly the scum imo. You should agree with me as well because you have vibes that Marci and Salsa are not teamed.

Assuming you are town, can you not see what Salsa is doing today? Why would you want N_M over Salsa? In fact, for anyone who is voting N_M (geraintm I've seen your reasoning but feel free to add more regarding Salsa if you like), why do you want to eliminate N_M

more than

anyone else?

It seems like everyone is afraid of having him in MELO tomorrow, but nobody but geraintm or I have offered reasoning as to why he is scum (that I can recall). The fact that everyone's quietly letting this happen feels wrong - does nobody else get that feeling?

Mine is specifically game control.

I as pretty much confTown in like a majority of worlds should not be tipping my cards to scum at this point.
The entire idea of elo is to force scum to play by a very tight area of control.
Ideally if possible you want to force scum to vote first.

Not Mafia has a penchant for bucking any sort of rule or system set in place which means that if whoever we elim today is town we have a wildcard I can’t predict.

He has been given several chances to show a bare minimum of caring about the game and just hasn’t. Therefore he is either scum or just won’t give a damn in elo.

The more he blatantly trolls the more I think the former.

If I tip my hand too much the way I am thinking then scum adapt the scenario

Take a look at Calculasia where I was scum. Titus played that elo absolutely perfectly the way she was supposed to until she started publicly questioning which teams.

By breaking things down too much you give scum a clear path to victory.
There’s a sweet balance here.

We know the kills scum have to take which are conf town A and B. They have to make those kills OR they will no longer be in control of their vote. By remaining tight lipped at this specific moment whoever is scum doesn’t know I am a threat or not.

Elo is a big game of chicken and almost every time scum vote first town wins and vice versa if ran right.

For me to override what is a superior strategy every single time I have to be convinced that that person is 100000% scummier than someone who is seemingly not playing.

Which to be fair I don’t know if that bar is even possible.

[Not_Mafia]

Cows are very caring creatures, they even have best friends.

[marcistar]

If we do Dwlee today and he is town though, that

eliminates deepwolf Math from the likely pairings imo, given.his persistence on N_M today.

That leaves N_M and Salsabil and I feel like in town!Dwlee world there is no way that's not the team.

is this the only reason to eliminate math from a possible paring?

[MathBlade]

If we do Dwlee today and he is town though, that

eliminates deepwolf Math from the likely pairings imo, given.his persistence on N_M today.

That leaves N_M and Salsabil and I feel like in town!Dwlee world there is no way that's not the team.

is this the only reason to eliminate math from a possible paring?

It’s always good to be paranoid and talk things out. I am just literally not in the mood to post atm, kinda sick but if you have questions I will answer.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If we do Dwlee today and he is town though, that

eliminates deepwolf Math from the likely pairings imo, given.his persistence on N_M today.

That leaves N_M and Salsabil and I feel like in town!Dwlee world there is no way that's not the team.

is this the only reason to eliminate math from a possible paring?

I'm TRing Math right now but their interactions with Dwlee in this game are triggering my lizard brain, like something feels off about them. N_M is so inactive and out of the game it's hard to rule anyone out of being their partner from N_M's side of the interaction, but scum!Math doesnt have to push for scum!N_M's elimination here when he as you as an option because of your hammer. So imo a scum!N_M flip indicates Math is not the last scum due to the way he is pushing for N_M toDay.

I think the only way Math can be scum here is with Dwlee and that's part of why, from a poe perspective, I like my odds better leading the next 2-3 eliminations with Dwlee.

[Dwlee99]

But my lizard brain says what about a Kyo, NM team.

[MathBlade]

I’ve seen all I need to see I think.

[T3]

Votecount:

• Not_Mafia (4): MathBlade, geraintm, Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria
  Dwlee99 (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Not_Mafia

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2021-08-06 08:56:01).
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

Personally I think Marci fits the VCA a lot better.

It explains why the wagon stalled. Marci had a lag vote on DGB she planned to move then boom Kyo wagons DGB out of no where and she can’t move it.

Then the rest of us hurry on with the flash wagon and her partner can’t move.

It’s possible that Marci is town and Kyo is a deep wolf but I think it’s more likely Marci here.

VOTE: Marci

Kyo/you/omo but omo is dead now.

VOTE: Unvote

Damn couple things missing here for sure.

Btw, I think it's

Dwlee

&

Marci

...

VOTE: Dwlee

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

Wait, I forget about

Not_Mafia

....

Dwlee

's green flip will show the scumteam of

Marci

&

Not_Mafia

.
I'm more sure about

Marci

now than

Dwlee

(want to consider

Omo

's read here), so I'm switching my vote...

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Marci

Salsa > Marci > Kyo (except Kyo gives me the deepwolg heebie jeebies)

Ok,

Dwlee

is scum! Partner is either

Marci

or

Not_Mafia

.

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Dwlee

Final vote of today!

I'll edit the votes since last votecount when I'm not on mobile.

[/quote][/quote]

Spoiler:

VOTE: NM

VOTE: Unvote

I don’t like Dwlee’s naked hop on after having had plenty of time to do a VC or react to cases.

I just can’t tell if this is lazy Dwlee or scum Dwlee. I probably will be busy most of today but will read as I can.

If there is a vigilante or any town killing role I put the odds that "babysitter" is scum north of 80%, regardless of Titus' scummy day play.

VOTE: dwlee

Dwlee/N_M last 2 scum

Ok

Dwlee

, I

think

I can believe you for a short time

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Marci

By reading all these, now I think it'll be easier for town to sort scums on melo/elo by eliminating me today.

Marci

is saying right, they are also an easy target, so we both are towns ig.

ssbm

still town to me, that left:

Dwlee

Not_Mafia

Math

You can go for in this order tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Sorry Salsa but I always vote self-voters, including myself

I know there’s a lot of words and stuff I am supposed to read since work just ended I am just not feeling it.

I think we should do NM today since he’s not playing. If y’all feel more confident in a read do it. I just don’t.

VOTE: Not Mafia

[/quote]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Sorry Salsa but I always vote self-voters, including myself

Thanks for the scum claim, who are you trying to save?
Btw, don't remember if I say this already but I don’t buy your

I can read

geraintm

read, it’s sounded TMI. And at that point, if you could really read them correctly (while they were not active that much iirr), then you

should

read me properly too, because you were the mod in one of my scum games and you played with town!me in several game as both alignment. Yes, I change my play style recently but why scum!me will play like this, what benefit I'm having rn?

TL;DR you're scum!

UNVOTE: Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: geraintm

I always vote self voters

VOTE: geraintm

VOTE: geraintm

VOTE: not mafia

Voting an innocent child....scummy behaviour

VOTE: dwlww

[Salsabil Faria]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: Dwlee

Reason? Top scumread

[Salsabil Faria]

Another thing, is

Manatee

really confirmed?? I mean I know she claimed friendly neighbour and sent pm to

ssbm

but

ssbm

herself not confirmed yet. Are they can be scums??

[Salsabil Faria]

Cows are very caring creatures, they even have best friends.

So you voted me because you don't care about me??? I'm heart broken

[Salsabil Faria]

Another thing, is

Manatee

really confirmed?? I mean I know she claimed friendly neighbour and sent pm to

ssbm

but

ssbm

herself not confirmed yet. Are they can be scums??

that's my lizard brain is thinking