Newbie 2071: The Sandwich Debate - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 4-5

Grilled sandwich with Nutella, dark chocolate and roasted strawberries. This one stretches my personal definition of sandwich just a little too far with the dark chocolate.

petapan

(1): Looker

Looker

(1): petapan

Not Voting

(1): Lady Lambdadelta

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to eliminate.

Deadline: August 10, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-08-09 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- fferyllt-Cabd combined ISO for vote counts
-

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Peta, if you're scum, you convinced me to lay it down with the only move that convinces me specifically. I think you probably have easier paths to a win than this one though, so I can't imagine why you'd do it. If you did choose this path and went for style points... I dunno what to say.

Fucking hell.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Looker

i feel like i'm wrong but i dno't think i can get away from my own logic here

gg

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 4-5

Is this a sandwich? Please discuss.

Looker

(2): petapan, Lady Lambdadelta

petapan

(1): Looker

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to eliminate.

Deadline: August 10, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-08-09 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- fferyllt-Cabd combined ISO for vote counts
-

An Elimination and Win Condition Have Been Achieved!

[fferyllt]

Looker was a

Mafia Goon

.

Town Wins!

[fferyllt]

Thread reopened!

Thanks so much for playing! And special thanks to all the players who volunteered to replace into this game!

I'll post the PTs shortly.

If you asked for a private personal thread for this game and would like it to be made public, let me know!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Eyyyyyyy Let's goooooooooooo

[Cabd]

Phew. Nailbiter navigated!

[Clasko]

If you asked for a private personal thread for this game and would like it to be made public, let me know!

Mine can be made public - I have nothing to redact.

Good call, LLD!
Well played everyone! GG's!

[Lukewarm]

Hello. It is I, a watcher from the shadows

@LLD

Can you talk about what led you to making this play?

Spoiler:

Today is the day for a mass claim, btw. We're in a 5:2 situation, and we have 2 confirmed townies we can create, with a possible better outcome depending on roles.

So we need to organize a popcorn claiming list. We pick the scummiest person, and then make them claim, then, they tell someone else to claim, and we go down the list. This way, it makes counter claims a little harder to fake too.

I also think, for the immediate moment in the claim order, you shouldn't claim your ROLE, just whether you are a Vanilla Townie or a Power Role.

If we have any counter claiming, we can use that to try and catch people, but if we don't, we don't reveal what power is where to the scum.

Anyone disagree with this?

Never seen something like that suggested day 2 of a newbie game, and was the reason I started spectating this game lol

[Lukewarm]

Also, congrats on getting it right in Elo

[fferyllt]

Dead PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=87098
Mafia PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=87097
Mod Notes: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=87099

Clasko's PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=87153

[HockeyFan]

Pog town won, ggs. I could have probably played a bit better but im happy I pushed scum on d3. Wp LLD(even though u pushed me >:()

[petapan]

well that was a game of some kind

i really don't go to 3p as town very often at all so that was an interesting experience

glad to have gotten it in the end even if the hockeyfan read was a big whiff on my part


if any of the newbies who were in the game are still paying attention and want feedback, feel free to ask. not even sure how many of them stuck around given the unfortunate number of replace outs

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hello. It is I, a watcher from the shadows

@LLD

Can you talk about what led you to making this play?

Spoiler:

Today is the day for a mass claim, btw. We're in a 5:2 situation, and we have 2 confirmed townies we can create, with a possible better outcome depending on roles.

So we need to organize a popcorn claiming list. We pick the scummiest person, and then make them claim, then, they tell someone else to claim, and we go down the list. This way, it makes counter claims a little harder to fake too.

I also think, for the immediate moment in the claim order, you shouldn't claim your ROLE, just whether you are a Vanilla Townie or a Power Role.

If we have any counter claiming, we can use that to try and catch people, but if we don't, we don't reveal what power is where to the scum.

Anyone disagree with this?

Never seen something like that suggested day 2 of a newbie game, and was the reason I started spectating this game lol

So, let's start with the non mechanical reasons.

We'd just flipped a townie, and the game was at risk of hitting apathy. Forcing a mass claim creates new info and makes people have to chew on it and make decisions. I felt that using the mass claim timing here would provide town +EV if done like this.

Now, mechanical stuff: Popcorn because it prevents scum from being able to do weird fake claim stuff, and only claiming "power role or no" because of the same.

The way this setup is built creates the possibility for duplication errors. In that a cop is fine, ubt there's no guarantee the jailkeeper that claims is real or not, because the cop can't know the setup. It could be a real jailkeeper, or it could be mafia making the guess from that position.

Having popcorn'd order makes it harder to plan the timing of a fake claim, and having hidden role names and only claiming to have power or not hides the setup they need to duplicate.

Had more than one person claimed a power role, we would have been making them power claim in reverse order of the order they claimed, and then evaluating what came from that.

In essence, doing it this way created the GUARANTEE of a few confirmed townies, or gave us a guilty and a good plan. In this scenario, my play wasn't super necessary since we had a cop with a guilty

but what happens if the cop just claims the guilty and then the jailkeeper claims later?

Cop claims it, we kill 1, and the fake jail keeper "clears" someone as not the person who killed the cop and then it's GG. It's game over. Then the JK no kills, claims a guilty and boom.

We lose to duplication error.

Doing it this way prevents ALL that gambit shit.

[HockeyFan]

well that was a game of some kind

if any of the newbies who were in the game are still paying attention and want feedback,

How do you not get condemmed . Moreso, how do radiate town/towncase yourself

feel free to ask. not even sure how many of them stuck around given the unfortunate number of replace outs

[petapan]

Pog town won, ggs. I could have probably played a bit better but im happy I pushed scum on d3. Wp LLD(even though u pushed me >:()

hnestly i think in terms of your play you weren't really all that bad

this misread is 95% my fault here and i'm still not sure what i should have done differently

i think i was reading too deeply into your posts when the real answer (looker's slot) simply didn't have much content to go off that was actually incriminating - i really only got there in the end because i could figure out other people were town

as for yourself, i don't know. you were right and for okay reasons, i just couldn't figure you out. to tell you what you could do differently i'd have to first figure out where i went wrong. i think you did a fine job keeping up with the game in spite of the constant player turnover.

[Looker]

You chose correctly

[Looker]

GG

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hockey, the misread on you was my fault. I had you as my towniest player day 1, and then I saw T3 scum and I was like... Hockey/T3 makes a LOT of sense.

And with the free space we had to make 1 mistake, I didn't feel comfortable letting you live. If I'd relied on my initial instincts, I'd have kept you town.

Just saw something weird and got a little paranoid.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's also a function of how I refresh my reads after a town flip.

James flips town, gotta refresh, okay, T3 scum still, who else.

Okay, Hockey flips town and I'm not night killed... let's refresh again

[HockeyFan]

Pog town won, ggs. I could have probably played a bit better but im happy I pushed scum on d3. Wp LLD(even though u pushed me >:()

hnestly i think in terms of your play you weren't really all that bad

this misread is 95% my fault here and i'm still not sure what i should have done differently

i think i was reading too deeply into your posts when the real answer (looker's slot) simply didn't have much content to go off that was actually incriminating - i really only got there in the end because i could figure out other people were town

as for yourself, i don't know. you were right and for okay reasons, i just couldn't figure you out. to tell you what you could do differently i'd have to first figure out where i went wrong. i think you did a fine job keeping up with the game in spite of the constant player turnover.

Ok, thanks! yea about the reading too deeply into posts is a recurring theme across most players Ive played with(not just on this site). If 1 player does smth scummy, another play will likely call that player scum for the rest of the game without reconsidering thier read so dw about it too much, it was just unforunate that I paired a bit there with T3

[HockeyFan]

Hockey, the misread on you was my fault. I had you as my towniest player day 1, and then I saw T3 scum and I was like... Hockey/T3 makes a LOT of sense.

And with the free space we had to make 1 mistake, I didn't feel comfortable letting you live. If I'd relied on my initial instincts, I'd have kept you town.

Just saw something weird and got a little paranoid.

yea looking back, i probs should have pushed one of VFP/T3 harder

[Looker]

Yes - they're all sandwiches

[Lady Lambdadelta]

well that was a game of some kind

if any of the newbies who were in the game are still paying attention and want feedback,

How do you not get condemmed . Moreso, how do radiate town/towncase yourself

feel free to ask. not even sure how many of them stuck around given the unfortunate number of replace outs

So everything you did day 1 was so fucking town. It radiated it and I was never more confident.

The issue was, coming into day 2, your interactions with T3 about Looker specifically, and the instant Looker vote and the reason you gave for it were insinspiring.

If you'd said "Looker is scummy and I want more pressure here today" I'd have vibed.

But you said it so passively. "I'm not sure if he's scum but I wanna see more".

It made it look like a scum semi push.