Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[Dwlee99]

Salsa, you can say that you would be more invested but in what way?

[MathBlade]

I don’t like Salsa voting Kyo here after my vote.

Next time pm me before you'll post here or vote anyone after seeing my vote, I'll not complain.

That’s against site rules.

You can’t be PMing other players during the game about the game.

And I don’t have to vote somewhere else when I am not sure. This is needle in a haystack and I have two guesses.

Google sarcasm

Sorry my sarcasm detector is busted.

[Dwlee99]

Any update on how reading is going?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I give you guys 2 propositions:

1. Eliminate me today and

Dwlee

tomorrow.

2. If you want to keep me alive today but eliminate me in the melo/elo, then eliminate

Dwlee

today!

My rl is a mess rn, can't help you that much.

Ok

Dwlee

, I

think

I can believe you for a short time

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Marci

By reading all these, now I think it'll be easier for town to sort scums on melo/elo by eliminating me today.

Marci

is saying right, they are also an easy target, so we both are towns ig.

ssbm

still town to me, that left:

Dwlee

Not_Mafia

Math

You can go for in this order tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Sorry Salsa but I always vote self-voters, including myself

Thanks for the scum claim, who are you trying to save?
Btw, don't remember if I say this already but I don’t buy your

I can read

geraintm

read, it’s sounded TMI. And at that point, if you could really read them correctly (while they were not active that much iirr), then you

should

read me properly too, because you were the mod in one of my scum games and you played with town!me in several game as both alignment. Yes, I change my play style recently but why scum!me will play like this, what benefit I'm having rn?

TL;DR you're scum!

UNVOTE: Salsabil Faria

VOTE: Not_Mafia

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: Dwlee

Reason? Top scumread

So the above 5 posts are like, Salsabil's progression throughout D3. Again there's this pattern of scumreading Dwlee, but when it is convenient, sheeping him. She briefly cases N_M, but it really feels unnatural to me. Somehow him self-voting is a scumclaim today when it was no problem on D1. For some reason, D3 he was trying to save someone, but Salsabil doesnt name who it is because there's no competing wagon, unless you want to count Dwlee? It feels made up, and she has no qualms about voting other players with little to no reason. So the cas here feels like TMIing her partner. And Salsa and N_M were voting Dwlee with me yesterday, so her stance on N_M doesn't align with her voting or her reads on dwlee.

Another thing, is

Manatee

really confirmed?? I mean I know she claimed friendly neighbour and sent pm to

ssbm

but

ssbm

herself not confirmed yet. Are they can be scums??

Also questioning the manatee confirmation is just wild. Manatee had messaged Math as well, so what, Manatee, Math, and I are all scum covering for each other? After DGB is already flipped. This just cant be real

One of the reasons I'm not that much invested in this game because I don’t roll

scum

here.

Another thing, I'm

not

stupid as scum. The mistakes I made here which you think I made as scum, scum!me will never do that, I

always

read the thread.

What were these mistakes, and who thought you made them?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

Hi guys!

VOTE: Saudade

*Visibly overreacting*

*Visibly ignoring*

NM, Salsa, and Saudade are also town. Manatee is another potential mafia.

^quotes are because I thought geraint also wasn't voting, was wondering why manatee did not ask geraint. But I had forgotten 59, thought geraint only made 1 post

But you voted

Titus

instead of

ManateeDude

.

Go to the top quote and read what happens between these two posts, then keep reading Salsa's catchup. Note that Salsabil's catchup doesnt comment on N_M or Looker at all, and they're both getting some heat in this period of time.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^actually it does comment on them in a positive light, which feels worse to me.

[MathBlade]

Kyo if you’re sure of your case why are you not voting?

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa, you can say that you would be more invested but in what way?

Check any of my completed games, I was more active, actively discussing, properly presenting my thoughts etc.
When I got the pm, I was relaxed to think that as I'll be busy irl, I don’t have to do more in this game as I'm not a tpr or a scum + I wanted to change my play style for some time, which I can experiment here without taking pressure on my back of being a tpr or a scum.

[Salsabil Faria]

One of the reasons I'm not that much invested in this game because I don’t roll

scum

here.

Another thing, I'm

not

stupid as scum. The mistakes I made here which you think I made as scum, scum!me will never do that, I

always

read the thread.

What were these mistakes, and who thought you made them?

You mentioned those already! Interesting fact is that you are thinking as

scum

I did all of this to put all the attention towards my back while having

Not_Mafia

and

DGB

as my scum-partners!! Either you're stupid!town who think I'm stupid!scum or you're the deep wolf who setting up for a LHF miselimination.

[Salsabil Faria]

I don’t like Salsa voting Kyo here after my vote.

Next time pm me before you'll post here or vote anyone after seeing my vote, I'll not complain.

That’s against site rules.

You can’t be PMing other players during the game about the game.

And I don’t have to vote somewhere else when I am not sure. This is needle in a haystack and I have two guesses.

Google sarcasm

Sorry my sarcasm detector is busted.

[Salsabil Faria]

Kyo if you’re sure of your case why are you not voting?

She did actually

[Salsabil Faria]

@Mod

, a vc please.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo if you’re sure of your case why are you not voting?

I think I did end up voting the more I read, but I didn't vote at first because I have overnight read notes I wanted to post this morning.

One of the reasons I'm not that much invested in this game because I don’t roll

scum

here.

Another thing, I'm

not

stupid as scum. The mistakes I made here which you think I made as scum, scum!me will never do that, I

always

read the thread.

What were these mistakes, and who thought you made them?

You mentioned those already! Interesting fact is that you are thinking as

scum

I did all of this to put all the attention towards my back while having

Not_Mafia

and

DGB

as my scum-partners!! Either you're stupid!town who think I'm stupid!scum or you're the deep wolf who setting up for a LHF miselimination.

I didn't use the word mistake, so I'm wondering what specifically you are referring to, because I can't tell from context. You didn't quote any particular post of mine when you said that originally - you quoted yourself, and it is not clear what you are talking about.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This is what I found overnight. Some I've discussed already - the general concepts, but I haven't had access to my notes to get specific post numbers over the weekend.

Some observations that came in order:

• Titus has now flipped, so we know that on N1, scum knew she was a town Babysitter
• Scum did not shoot Titus or Manatee because crumbs were missed.
• DGB died while it was travelling IRL and wouldn't have been around to help spot the FN crumb imo. When it got ran up as a wagon, it only had time to post a pleading post about "my husband is in the driveway already" or something like that. I think it's clear it did not have time to read closely. Not_Mafia seems to have been Not_Reading,
  so that leaves just the third scum responsible for both spotting the crumb, and choosing the NK.

The last part in bold is what prompted me to read Roden in ISO for motive. In retrospect, I don't think I found the actual motive, because I think the last scum is Salsabil. This is what I found that was pointing toward either Marci or Dwlee as the last scum.

Quotes in/around Roden's ISO

Also a lot of the pushing on me felt like they wanted me to out who my mason partner was cause it obviously wasn't Saudade.

I just wanted you to play, you're coming off as very passive and just sheeping other people. Even when pressured you're just lightly flailing. I don't think you're necessarily scummy, but you're not really doing much to help town and the Kyokou read isn't good. Who do you suspect besides her?

UNVOTE:

I'm gonna write up a reads list and figure who to push from there. Idk if Dwlee is the right vote today.

This felt similar to me how boxxy caught Dwlee in Mini 2216, which is detailed at the bottom of this post.

[ManateeGal], Titus, and Kyo

@roden

I feel like you keep asking me questions I've already answered or saying things about things I've posted that aren't true.

Why are you editing your own post to make your quote look more credible...?

So if I understand correctly, you told me I was misinterpreting your accusation. You aren't suspecting Kyouko just because she voted you. But here you're directly saying you suspect Manatee and Titus because they voted for you. You even throw in Kyouko

again

and say her vote is terrible.

What exactly am I misinterpreting?

I edited "you" to Manatee for readability... Dude what

You changed the content and formatting completely. The original post didn't look like the hero solve you tried to make it look like afterwards at all.

And it isn't that they're voting me alone. It's that they're voting me for terrible reasons. That's scummy

What terrible reasons? Were my reasons good then?

I grabbed these last 2 without any annotation on them, I think to show that Roden was pushing Dwlee during D1.

TOWN READS

Kyouko- Probably the closest we have to obvtown.

DGB- Looker spewed town before they replaced in.

TOWN LEANS

Not_Mafia- He's been inactive the past couple days but he was actually trying to solve early on.

Titus- She's not trying too hard to look town, she's actively trying to gain information, and her responses feel genuine.

Salsabil- She only has one read that I disagree with, which actually helps make me think her reads are authentic and not just following general consensus.

NULL

OMO and Saudade (not Math)- Both are Null for the same reason. Both have been fairly chaotic, which helps generate content, but they're not doing a whole lot of actual solving themselves.

Geraintm- Not much content to look at. He's done this as town before but it's ultimately NAI.

Dwlee- Idk why they're making such a conscious effort to look scummy. It makes me think possibly just confused town, but they've played long enough to know better.

SCUM LEANS

ManateeDude- I feel like she has scum equity with Max and Marci after we had our back and forth. She occasionally gives town vibes with her posts though, so not a definite scum read.

Math (not Saudade)- Terrible entrance, terrible vote, and fake sounding questions all make him sound incredibly scummy in a short amount of time. Combined with my read on Saudade, this slot doesnt feel good at all to me.

SCUM READS

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity. Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

This is the readslist I found while reading Roden that I think points towards me not being the last scum. In this post, Roden has me, DGB as TRs, and N_M as a townlean. Roden was also widely TRed and a part of the townblock. It would have been easy to not bus and keep Roden alive, and if I was going to bus for towncred, I think bussing N_M would have been the better play as he's a liability to be policied anyways. With what did happen though, it wouldn't make sense for me to kill Roden N1.

Marci, if you're town I really want you to defend yourself. I don't want you mis-elim'd if you're just a passive player, so please make a case for yourself.

The biggest thing that's pinged me are your associatives with Max and Manatee, and then the blatant distancing that happened afterward. Something I commented on and that Kyouko noticed too is that it also looked like you were trying to build fake scum equity with Manatee. Your vote on Looker/DGB also doesn't read as town since you've made several accusations and suspected others since then. Why did you never change your vote/why are you so certain about DGB?

These are the things that need to be addressed the most IMO.

This is where Roden starts to shift his focus onto Marci. I actually thought at first that this is where he landed for the day and began thinking Marci is more likely that Dwlee to want to kill Roden, but then toward EoD Roden comes back onto Dwlee a bit.

To be fair max probably deserves to be null on my list, I'm quite focused on manatee/marci and max sits down there still because she was there before

Pedit: oh okay well, hmm. I think Roden is town, I guess is all I can say. What do you mean he's "being weird" with you

Read our interactions. He misunderstands my posts in I almost all of them.

This isn't an explanation. This is actually just incredibly frustrating because I keep asking you to restate your posts since I supposedly keep misunderstanding them. I just asked you to do so again and instead you say it's weird that I don't understand your posts. This is just circular logic.

VOTE: Kyo
This might be scum. The inattentiveness thing is a very strange thing to push me on and I think town!Kyo knows I sometimes am just like that.

I know vibe checking is punishable by death at this point, but man the vibes on this read feel off. Do you really think Kyouko should go just because she made a push on you?

Uh no and I don't think this is a good faith attempt at repeating back what I said at all.

I didn't repeat anything back. How else am I supposed to interpret your post if your only accusation against Kyouko is "she should know that I don't pay attention"?

You said I voted Kyo for pushing me. If that's your interpretation you're severely misreading what I'm writing or trying to misrep me to make me look scummy.

Restate your accusation then. I'm standing by what I said, and I'm not gonna let you gaslight me into thinking I misread what was a very blatantly lazy retaliation post from you against Kyouko.

Proof that I asked you to and that you refused to do so.

This is where things start to heat up between Dwlee and Roden toward end of D1

Because if you can't figure out how to read my posts this is going to be terrible as long as we are both alive.

Refusing to cooperate is a scum tell then. Enjoy your likely Babysitter visit.

And this is where Roden implies Dwlee could get Babysitted. Maybe this was enough to scare scum!Dwlee, but again, since my overnight read, I've read more of Salsabil's D1 and seen that even outside of the times she was self-voting to avoid the DGB wagon, she has done other scummy things. It's no longer a case of "well she self-voted when we were eliminating scum", there are additional times where her votes and her reads and posts are inconsistent, especially so around N_M, and around Dwlee, who she keeps flip-flopping on. She goes from scum-reading Dwlee to sheeping him and then back, I think more than once.

Mini 2216 Scum PT Quotes

Okay cool. Honestly I'd appreciate any help in picking the night kill. Read all of day one if you can. It's pretty short and also a dumpster fire for us. I think I'm suspicious af rn and there are a lot of solid people townreading each other so I kind of want to set you up to end game if we can. There is a claimed roaming detective and we have to consider who should make the night kill and where.

Dwlee did not seem to consider shooting a claimed PR - in this game neither claimed PR died (we know Dwlee knew Manatee was softing FN)

I would agree that it is best to kill a widely townread person. I was thinking of whether I could claim town complex fruit vendor but I don't think that is plausible enough. If I tried it I would target boxxy to confirm him as a PR and then claim it. I don't think it works as a town claim though.

Roden was widely townread. A similarity, but in fairness, this is a lot of scum's reasoning when killing

Not sure about killing Kyo. Are we trying to set up Seanzie kind of? I was thinking it might be good to kill on the wagon and then maybe make the argument that the wagon is locktown and because I'm on it that argument might benefit us.

In this game, Roden is killed on the wagon, and then the deepwolf argument is made. This part in particular is more specifically similar to the current game than the previous quote, and is one of the most concerning things about Dwlee.

Lol Boxxy's read of me is so dead on accurate.

Boxxy's read on Dwlee from main thread of Mini 2216

Snipped quote

Reading Dwlee99 in iso, I don't like it. He seems a little too agreeable in how he joins up with powertown monkey/nom.

Goes from really liking my play

let's do boxxy guys. it's a good wagon

This is a super weird take?

I've liked boxxy's posting a lot.

I'm still trying to figure out nom though. I don't know if nom withholding the tell is inherently scummy but I'd really like to hear it if it's going to be justifying a scum read this early especially when it feels like cyrus town-slipped.

To joining the wagon once it had momentum but the content had not changed.

Okay, I've read over that interaction and I see what you're talking about now. I wish boxxy was here to respond and give some updates but I feel like him not is kind of by his own design.

VOTE: boxxy

Finally he hammers cyrus once it was a foregone conclusion. It just feels a bit too much like trying not to be objectionable and make friends with powertown.

VOTE: Dwlee99

[Dwlee99]

What is similar from Boxxy's read in that game to Roden's here? I don't think there are any similarities. Boxxy's point was that I flip-flopped on him extremely easily to join the wagon on him, and I only hammered Cyrus because it was going to happen anyway. Both things were true. Roden's posts you quoted were mostly about me not explicitly explaining why his interpretation of my post was wrong.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also a lot of the pushing on me felt like they wanted me to out who my mason partner was cause it obviously wasn't Saudade.

I just wanted you to play,

you're coming off as very passive and just sheeping other people

. Even when pressured you're just lightly flailing. I don't think you're necessarily scummy, but you're not really doing much to help town and the Kyokou read isn't good. Who do you suspect besides her?

UNVOTE:

I'm gonna write up a reads list and figure who to push from there. Idk if Dwlee is the right vote today.

What is similar from Boxxy's read in that game to Roden's here? I don't think there are any similarities. Boxxy's point was that I flip-flopped on him extremely easily to join the wagon on him, and I only hammered Cyrus because it was going to happen anyway. Both things were true. Roden's posts you quoted were mostly about me not explicitly explaining why his interpretation of my post was wrong.

The similarity is in green. Since taking these notes though I feel comfortable that it's a playstyle thing for you and the act itself is NAI. To get AI with it, the context of who your targets are, and your reads on them, matters.

I'm assuming in 2216's PT you were actually saying the assessment of your flip-flop is what was spot on? When I read it, I thought it was the buddying powertown and sheeping that you were referring to.

I dont think you have anything like that in this game off the top of my head. Your read on me has flipped at times (or has flipped to scummy and stayed, I'm not sure), but I dont think there is scum motivation in your change of opinion

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also 621 is what seemed similar to Boxxy's read to me. The other posts were just to illustrate that Roden was pushing you. I was going through Roden's iso looking for who he was pushing because I realized the Roden kill was probably the sole choice of the last living scum, and I think that is important in catching the last scum.

As I said in that post though, I think when I was reading Roden that I didnt actually find the true reason he died, rather, later on I found that he was advocating for you as flailing town, and Salsabil's reaction to that was questionable. Combine that with Salsabil's reaction to Marci saying on D2 that you're town for not hammering DGB, and that if anything omo looks worse. Salsa seems confused or upset that people do not want to mislim you immediately on D2. She probably killed Roden because he was your advocate. Salsa switches gears and pushes for omo instead at that point. I think Salsa was wanting to mislim you on D2 as it was in line with her D1 read, and I had made the case that you and omo were not voting DGB with the rest of town on D1.

Kinda like how I was as scum in 2213 (I think this was the number - Osuka modded the game) with Zyla. I just kept pushing Zyla D2, because she was my D1 scumread. It's easier to look town when you're being consistent, and by tunneling you can avoid taking stances on other players that you may need to mislim later.

[MathBlade]

I think my order is Salsa > Kyo > Marci here.

Sometimes I swap them but I think that’s pretty much the PoE.

I would like to reserve hammer to make sure no one has any questions.

[Salsabil Faria]

I'm switching my gear again

ssbm

UNVOTE: ssbm

VOTE: Dwlee

[Salsabil Faria]

I think my order is Salsa > Kyo > Marci here.

Sometimes I swap them but I think that’s pretty much the PoE.

I would like to reserve hammer to make sure no one has any questions.

Music to my ears

But you should consider

Dwlee

ig, on the next day I mean.

[MathBlade]

I think my order is Salsa > Kyo > Marci here.

Sometimes I swap them but I think that’s pretty much the PoE.

I would like to reserve hammer to make sure no one has any questions.

Music to my ears

But you should consider

Dwlee

ig, on the next day I mean.

I always reconsider everyone I just haven’t seen him scum yet and I mean like if the million word tome (hyperbole) and me rereading the game before today I don’t see it then I probably won’t.

If you flip town I would probably do another reread just to kinda steady myself as tomorrow would be a last shot of sorts.

[Dwlee99]

Yes it was the flip-flop that I thought was accurate.

I will just reiterate that I would never kill Titus there because I think I was just as likely her shot as Omo was. I think that kill should basically locktown me.

I think I agree with your order @Math, it's the same as my order from yesterday, I think I'm just a little concerned about Marci maybe? She ~feels~ town and I think so does Kyo, which makes me think we just win off of killing Salsa, but if we are wrong on Salsa I'll be confused.

[MathBlade]

Yes it was the flip-flop that I thought was accurate.

I will just reiterate that I would never kill Titus there because I think I was just as likely her shot as Omo was. I think that kill should basically locktown me.

I think I agree with your order @Math, it's the same as my order from yesterday, I think I'm just a little concerned about Marci maybe? She ~feels~ town and I think so does Kyo, which makes me think we just win off of killing Salsa, but if we are wrong on Salsa I'll be confused.

I view this as more a battle of PoE. We have two shots to get it right. Eventually we have to guess somewhere. If we are wrong we reread overnight and try again.

I think this, worst case scenario, is you and me deciding Kyo or Marci.

[Dwlee99]

I definitely agree with ending today on Salsa.

[MathBlade]

Then let’s do it
VOTE: Salsa