Newbie 2074 | Game Over

[Dannflor]

would it help if i said i was in the shower thinking about this game and was gonna come back and vote SM before I even saw leaven's posts?

i know it won;t, but that's what happened

[Leaven]

Nah, I'm leaning Val84.

[Val89]

I'm just calling what I see, Dannflor.

[Dannflor]

I know and I’m implying you need to clean your glasses

[Ythan]

I'm too stoned to look at games when I think Dann is trying to subliminally buddy me by also talking about thinking about mafia in the shower.

Tbc I'm saying that's a dumb stoned thought not a serious one.

[Val89]

leaven probably dies tonight which leaves:

StrangeMatter
Val890
cowsloveSushirolls
Ythan

as possible Gamma partners

Speaking of subminal; anyone ever figured out what in the hell this post was? That is basically saying in a roundabout way "eveyone but me can be gamma's partner", right?

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 3.01

Now playing... Mother Mother

Dannflor (1):

Val89

StrangeMatter (1):

Dannflor

Not Voting (3):

StrangeMatter, Leaven,

Val89

,

Dannflor

, Ythan

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-08-15 01:45:00)

, at which point we will default to no elimination.

With five players alive, it takes

three

to reach majority.

Note:

Even with all the advances of modern dentistry, the aftermath of a tooth extraction is still quite painful.

[Ythan]

vc

It was like sixty years ago chill

[Dannflor]

leaven probably dies tonight which leaves:

StrangeMatter
Val890
cowsloveSushirolls
Ythan

as possible Gamma partners

Speaking of subminal; anyone ever figured out what in the hell this post was? That is basically saying in a roundabout way "eveyone but me can be gamma's partner", right?

it was me thinking out loud and trying to partner hunt

you'll notice i continued my train of thought by eliminating cowslovesushi as a gamma partner and saying ythan was less likely as a partner

[Val89]

you'll notice i continued my train of thought by eliminating cowslovesushi as a gamma partner and saying ythan was less likely as a partner

No, I don't notice that at all. I'm looking at your ISO in another tab, and that simply doesn't happen. In fact, I see you say, after some discussion, "it actually might just be ythan here but I'll deal with that tomorrow" - I might be wrong, but I took that to mean you were saying he was a likley partner, not a less likely partner.

What I do notice, and it's screamed loudly enough to override any doubts I have about Ythan, given there is only one scum remaining, is this. 3 out of the 4 names on that list could have CC'd Leavens cop claim. To that list, you can also add Gamma himself.

4 slots that could have potentially CC'd Leavens cop claim, and you didn't wait to hear from any of them. I think my 711 might well have indicated that I had some doubts about the claim, because a fake cop claim is

exactly

what you would have expected from a scum!Leaven at that point. We all now it wasn't a scum Leaven now, and the claim was legit, but Dannflor knew, and was confident in that, before 4 other slots had said anything on the matter at all.

I don't buy his explanation for it in 820 either. He suggests the alternative explanations to just being Gamma's partner and knowing leaven had a legit guilty are: having a PR read on Leaven, or being the possible doctor, or not wanting people to give away too much information.

I don't think ANY of those reasons for assuming a Cop claim from a (at the time) widley regarded as sus player who has just been forced to claim at E-1 and is claiming a guilty on a slot you had not long before placed 2nd highest in your list of townreads; is not going to be counter claimed when 3 slots are yet to check in and another slot is implying doubts about the claim, even if you were expecting there to be a Tracker or Cop claim at somepoint. That 3rd on is just straight up bull crap and makes no sense anyway. If I am to assume you didn't know the guilty was legit because you aren't Gamma's partner, then I have to assume you took a huge risk, TMI'd something else and then the real scum partner read that over night, miss it, and decided to kill CLSR over you anyhow.

I then have to buy all the other stuff to explain your play today, too; and its all just too much co-incidence to ask for me to assume to arrive at other conclusion than you are scum.

Sorry, but that's how it is.

[Dannflor]

Yeah it’s just SM

[Dannflor]

Nah, I'm leaning Val84.

Why

[Leaven]

I guess I owe val a reread with you as scum.

[Leaven]

Crap. Is it dann afterall?

[Dannflor]

I mean why were you leaning Val in the first place

Why is SM town?

[Leaven]

I dont like your iso #18 to #24.

[Dannflor]

Huh

[Val89]

I mean why were you leaning Val in the first place

Why is SM town?

Are you still trying to figure out if Leavens thought processes are natural, or whatever "not fishing" excuse you used for asking these questions to the other slots?

Let me help you out, Dann. He is town.

[Dannflor]

I want to know his reasoning because it might help inform my own reasoning

Having a conf-town’s thoughts are valuable information, no?

[Dannflor]

can someone who isn't me talk through their read on someone who isn't me

like, pick a town read, why are you town reading that person?

[Leaven]

Sorry. I meant 20-24 because of the voting and unvoting without explanation. And while possible, it doesnt seem as likely as other options.

[Leaven]

Val, how confident are you on your dan vote over SM or ythan?

[Leaven]

For people not sus of gamma, it seems that him flipping red would lead to massive overhauls of thinking about the game, but im not seeing that evolution really.

[Val89]

Val, how confident are you on your dan vote over SM or ythan?

Very. If this was an ELO between Dann and either of those two, I would bet the game on it.

I was susing Ythan because of his attitude, which he described today as me "annoying" him, by asking him to justify his statements regarding his read/play around James D1. As I pointed out earlier in 293 I think that attitude offers plenty of space for scum to hide in, and has proven to be utilised by scum in my previous game. Add the unannounced E-1 on Salsa, and the lurking in the bulk of D2, and I was fairly confident Ythan was scum in absence of other information about who the partner could be. I felt he was the scummiest in isolation. I had my doubts about CLSR before his flip mostly because he seemed to be going through quite the mental gymnastics to hold on to an underexplained town read on Ythan in face of that scumminess, but I accept now that he was probably correct.

For people not sus of gamma, it seems that him flipping red would lead to massive overhauls of thinking about the game, but im not seeing that evolution really.

On the contrary, while Ythan seemed individually scummiest, when Gamma flipped red, Danns reaction to that, and the ability to go back and re-read the interactions between Dannflor and Clarkbar/Gamma, and Gamma and Ythan knowing Gamma was one of the two scum makes me think Ythan is much less likely to be scum, and Dannflorr much much more likely.

We are in A1. You were roleblocked. Unless you are lying about that, and I see no reason for you to ever do so, then we are in A1, end of story. Danns' 820 came AFTER you outed you had no result, and I have no idea why he is continuing to pretend he doesn't know what setup we are in, and say things like "I think all of scum's night kills tend to point towards C1" when the N1 kill told us absolutely jackshit about the number or type of PRs, except maybe that scum thought James might be WIFOMing a PR claim with his D1 antics, and the N2 kill told we were NOT in C1, else they would have killed you, Leaven.

This is important, because the remaining scum is the roleblocker. That means, if scum were going to do any busing early, I think they would have chosen to do it with the RBer bussing Gamma, not the other way around. In that light, I think Gammas push on Ythan, as well as being an now-obvious attempt to latch on to my concerns/pocket me (which was somewhat successful, to be frank), also mean that a scum!Ythan is much less likely. Now look at Danns' interaction with Gamma when he replaced in. D2, before your outing of the guilty, Gamma is suddenly a lot townier than he remembers D1, and is up there on his second highest town read tier behind me and CLSR. It's true I was townreading Gamma myself, but I had done basically all the way through. Dann is try to sell us that he thought Gamma was scummy enough to be worthy of his vote D1, he still wanted to be the second vote on the Gamma wagon early D2, but had a change of heart to make him a high townread somewhere between Gammas ISO posts 63 and 78. I've tried reading through them with the lens as someone who doesn't know Gamma is scum, but who was scumreading him and see if there is anything there that could realistically make someone go "Hmm, perhaps he is town after all", and I can't see it. I think the scum team decided that as more and more people were expressing disquiet about how Leaven was pushing the Gamma slot (now explained as having a guilty he didn't want to out if he didn't have to), they decided it wasn't necessary to bus; hence:

the competing wagons should really be like SM and leaven right now

not this GE/Ythan crap

I've explained already why I am 99% percent confident Danns' play on the Gamma guilty reveal points to him being his partner rather than the other explanations he is trying to suggest, and his response to that was "Yeah it’s just SM". You can read into that as you will.

[Leaven]

I'm sold.