Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 1.7

[4] ArcAngel9 (Spiffeh, unwnd, Annie Edison, Dunnstral)
[2] Lukewarm (ManateeGal, Titus)
[2] ManateeGal (Lady Lambdadelta, Lukewarm)
[2] Spiffeh (Snarky fishes, ArcAngel9)
[1] Medea the Alien (PookyTheMagicalBear)

[2] Not Voting (Medea the Alien, Here There Be Dragons)

With 13 alive, it is 7 to eliminate.

Spoiler: Shard Vote

[2] Dunnstral (unwnd, Annie Edison)
[1] Titus (Titus)

[10] Not Voting (ArcAngel9, Here There Be Dragons, Lady Lambdadelta, Lukewarm, ManateeGal, Medea the Alien , PookyTheMagicalBear, Snarky fishes, Spiffeh, Dunnstral)

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-08-17 11:00:00)

[ArcAngel9]

UNVOTE:

ceph i don't want to do medea

aa9 could you elaborate on the following more (re: Spiffeh)

And for the rest of your reads on others sounds fake and scum motivated.

~std

Since the first post itself - Post #41 - Who says that? and he has already given a scum team there!

VOTE: ArcAngel

Read ~most~ of the game. Only slot I felt nothing positive about so far. I feel really icky about the multiple allusions to misunderstanding/not knowing the set up below:

What about sending shards to mafia, since they are already are demons so sending shards doesn't affect them? I believe the mafia wins when convert at least 7 more town players into demons. Is my understanding of the setup is accurate? can someone validate and confirm on this?

this confuses me. i need to read the setup again!

The second quote in particular is not something that needs to be announced in the thread, and contributes to the "look at me I have no prior setup knowledge which makes me Town!" narrative established in the first quote where she assumes all scum are demonic which we know to be untrue.

She doesn't like the Medea wagon but instead of digging into that discomfort she decides to chase after notty and Penguin to answer questions that don't feel all that fruitful?

Basically several things feel off to the point where it could just be a playstyle quirk that doesn't sit well with me but I kinda have a lot of town and null reads so I don't have anywhere else I wanna put my vote atm

Also think notty is ridiculously obvtown and wanna sheep him even though I predict he will interpret this as buddying and be skeeved out by it!

This post really caught my eye. Not because he was voting on me but the reasons he shared.

1. I have never said or quoted saying that - "I didn't understand town and that makes me town" , It looks like he found an advantage to hop on to build a wagon. Why didn't others leap on this because a townie would rather want to build a solid case, not jump on advantages.
2. I didn't like medea because of the fact how quickly it was built (within hours) and what is wrong in wanting to figure out why everyone scum reading Medea. How does that make me scum but not others especially those who found no good reasons to hop into Medea wagon?

And in his post #789, he softly puts his scum read opinion on Medea so that he could hop into their wagon whenever he wants. (It sounds to me like Scum creating options on day 1 as Medea is a leading wagon)

[Medea the Alien]

I love that this game feels like a challenge.

Penguin compared it to Olympus at one point. There's no "easy" answer here it would seem.

[Here There Be Dragons]

Medea not agreeing with me will be an extremely huge problem. So much that I was willing to reveal myself.

A post in the Cephgame dead thread: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12904003

subsequent posts could be if interest, too.

I've asked Ceph about manatee's play here vs our dead thread convo. You were a player, so I think you'll probably have some thoughts and insights, too.

I'm certain this convo is weighted in medea's read of manatee.

Does it affect your thoughts on her play here?

i don't see manatee exhibiting the qualities you mention in 78. is she just a master who's turned on a dime/is it just variance? it's possible.

but, she has been taking a lot of pressure in this game and she hasn't had spectacularly bad reactions to it and hasn't shut down. so she's not at the top of my concern list.

[ManateeGal]

Spoiler: stuff i like from sleez

I like LLD.

Let people answer for themselves Annie. Your opinion is in queue.

VOTE: Lukewarm

Least comfortable vote on Medea, so much that even himself couldn't believe it. . Fraudulent behavior.

I am almost certain you know what I'm saying and you think being befuddled could make people townread you.

I said exactly what I wanted to.

Medea is awkward but not in a rousing manner.

Lukewarm continues to be very scummy.

What does it take to become initiated into the hive from you all. Talk to me, ask me questions.

Sleez which of my reads do you disagree with snd why?

I don't see why AA9/Medea are scum together. Your lower end of reads are basically incative players and then Medea, which has been a large focus to you. I think at this point Medea has been talked enough to where it's becoming an agitation, and it can even be shown by the way Medea is responding right now. Why is Medea such an object of desire to you? Why is it to everyone. I see a lot being talked about around Medea but you're the only person who is really trying to figure her out. I give you credit to that end but nobody else.

Lukewarm saw a fun little wagon then realized it might be a bad idea, and instead of owing up to the process made a convenient example for himself. He's very scummy.

Talk of AA9 made me look at her bigger post a bit more.

What about sending shards to mafia, since they are already are demons so sending shards doesn't affect them? I believe the mafia wins when convert at least 7 more town players into demons. Is my understanding of the setup is accurate? can someone validate and confirm on this?

This is probably untrue given that the mod listed the current demons as Low which is 0-2, and the scumteam is comprised of 3 last I checked the OP. I don't think this is a townslip.

I don't look at the game backwards. My objective is to remove scummy people. Lukewarm is still scummy. Manatee thinks he's scummy too, it's just bonus for me.

Sleez, what are your reads now?

• I would eliminate Titus, Dragons, and AA9. I've come around to AA9 just from the fact she is not here. It's never a bad idea to launch those people.
  
• I think Manatee is being truly misunderstood but don't think her provocateurs are entirely scum.
  
• I don't know what Pooky is doing.
  
• Medea is still awkward and weird. Her PA side is more direct but feels like I'm speaking to someone with a story of events instead of things playing out. I didn't like Bell-side chastising her in the way he did because they're just going to flail and have a good reason for it even if they're scum. It wasn't productive and now him constantly talking about her AtE is just going to make them spitefully AtE some more. Bell pretty much moved the goalposts and nothing else.
  
• I want to like LLD. I still do to some regard, but Annie's talk about people being afraid to approach LLD is interesting.
  
• I don't think Spiffeh has done anything objectionable. I'd want to know more why Bell believes the mouse in his words is scum.

This is why I'm fine with Manatee. I see the process, and her means of trying to work through it. Her apologies about being messy didn't seem like an excuse rather she just doesn't trust herself. I like that she seemed unguarded in that moment and just let it happen instead of pretending it didn't. She owned up to her own mistakes because she really wanted to have her thoughts get out there regardless.

I would even say that my theory is that while yes, town can use shards, scum actually wants to be the one to get them.

Look at what bork said. Look at what Medea said. Medea said they're a demon right now. That's 1. Is there 2? I would say if you're a demon go ahead and claim because it's numbers advantage.

{ManateeLass}

This one is wrong and I will fight you on it.

I'm not going to spell it out though. All I'm going to say is that I'm willing to speak more openly. I think Manatee isn't scum because I believe lesser scum are more inclined to give out reads at the drop of a hat. You know, look like they're doing something and being organic. Nothing about Manatee seems rushed, which bodes well for her behavior earlier about her own confidence. I don't believe this is a front and I expect scum who either 1) don't like being scum 2) are not very good at it to not be able to tap into their own stream of consciousness. So they pretend they know. I don't really see that from her.

I don't trust you yet Medea. I think you not seeing what I see in Manatee is a big problem.

How can you look at Manatee and think she would do the same exact shit she got clapped for last time. Even the most foolish of people know when a mistake happens, and the only thing that could be said is her openly being like 'i wanted to be scum to prove myself' and 'i want to work on my emotions when i get scumread' is the perspective slip you're looking for where she's spewing guilty conscience

[unwnd]

I have unwavering confidence in my Manatee read. I rather eat crow than submit.
I'm pretty sure notty is town.
Lukewarm moved to wait and see but town by behavior
I like LLD, but I have far less reasons for anyone else posted here.

That's 4 people I don't need to sweat for D1.

Hopefully I can get more in due time.

[Here There Be Dragons]

I already asked Dunnstrall if they were scum.

I have two issues:
1. Shard handing out when we were possibly in auto-lose if the game wasn't adjusted.
2. I feel like their Titus read should be the exact opposite of the conclusion they reached. What's to stop Titus from lying about their ability or for them to be scum wanting an extra shard or somethin.

Or any other scenario really.*

-Bell.

Hmph, the thing is, I don't lie about my abilities. If there's ever an investigator, I'd be caught. Roles change based on whether or not someone is a demon or not. There's no way I could depend on not being investigated.

We shouldn’t be in autolose day 1. That's fucking stupid.

i like this post

[Medea the Alien]

@Medea what was your thought process to approaching the game around your wagon? who were you targetting or trying to develop reads on? im finding your intent around this point hard to read.

This is a Penguin question, she's currently yelling at lab equipment and or Buzz but it did get seen and will be addressed this evening.

[Here There Be Dragons]

UNVOTE:

ceph i don't want to do medea

aa9 could you elaborate on the following more (re: Spiffeh)

And for the rest of your reads on others sounds fake and scum motivated.

~std

Since the first post itself - Post #41 - Who says that? and he has already given a scum team there!

VOTE: ArcAngel

Read ~most~ of the game. Only slot I felt nothing positive about so far. I feel really icky about the multiple allusions to misunderstanding/not knowing the set up below:

What about sending shards to mafia, since they are already are demons so sending shards doesn't affect them? I believe the mafia wins when convert at least 7 more town players into demons. Is my understanding of the setup is accurate? can someone validate and confirm on this?

this confuses me. i need to read the setup again!

The second quote in particular is not something that needs to be announced in the thread, and contributes to the "look at me I have no prior setup knowledge which makes me Town!" narrative established in the first quote where she assumes all scum are demonic which we know to be untrue.

She doesn't like the Medea wagon but instead of digging into that discomfort she decides to chase after notty and Penguin to answer questions that don't feel all that fruitful?

Basically several things feel off to the point where it could just be a playstyle quirk that doesn't sit well with me but I kinda have a lot of town and null reads so I don't have anywhere else I wanna put my vote atm

Also think notty is ridiculously obvtown and wanna sheep him even though I predict he will interpret this as buddying and be skeeved out by it!

This post really caught my eye. Not because he was voting on me but the reasons he shared.

1. I have never said or quoted saying that - "I didn't understand town and that makes me town" , It looks like he found an advantage to hop on to build a wagon. Why didn't others leap on this because a townie would rather want to build a solid case, not jump on advantages.
2. I didn't like medea because of the fact how quickly it was built (within hours) and what is wrong in wanting to figure out why everyone scum reading Medea. How does that make me scum but not others especially those who found no good reasons to hop into Medea wagon?

And in his post #789, he softly puts his scum read opinion on Medea so that he could hop into their wagon whenever he wants. (It sounds to me like Scum creating options on day 1 as Medea is a leading wagon)

that 41 is nai. maybe lean a little bad for the "i'm town" claim but the scumteam seems just random to me.

what's a real read spiffeh had that isn't on you that seems forced?

~std

[Here There Be Dragons]

im sure i dont need to say that i clearly had no idea who sleez was

[ManateeGal]

@anyone who played w me in NQN

do you think im purposely underplaying myself again in a way i admitted to in that game?

[Medea the Alien]

flurggghhh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laxative

[unwnd]

@anyone who played w me in NQN

do you think im purposely underplaying myself again in a way i admitted to in that game?

I'm one of your sole champions and you've got me confused why you're asking this

[ArcAngel9]

AA9 is there a reason you chose to vote for me over Annie Edison? In your catchup post you outline like five different posts that are scummy to you from Annie Edison and for me you really only go into detail about my read on you.

And can you state which reads of mine specifically sound "fake" and "scum-motivated"?

I had more to explain it to Annie because they were ranting with my name all over with big bad mouth.

Do I feel they are scum? Yes of course!

But you are my strong scum read. And your comparison to weighing my scum read to Annie is making me feel more confident about scum read on you!

[Annie Edison]

Manatee’s posts today have been giving me good vibes too.

Ninja-

[Here There Be Dragons]

I am still having a hard time seeing them as town.

Even thought most seem to not see it, I think that genguin's exchange with me and dunn early on was scummy.

I also am not a fan of the "actually, jokes on you, I was not trying to get town read anyways." Which I don't even think makes all that much sense just because of their demon status.

I actually find that really strange, but Ffery seems to get it. Maybe I am missing something.

If they were actively worried about the alternate win condition, I feel like they should have been trying to get thread control of the shard mechanic, instead of just shooting for null reads. Heck, they could have aimed to be widely town read, and just accepted the shards for themselves, which would guarantee that no new player was turned into a demon. Instead, they hung back and then just yelled at other people for trying to make plans.

From what I have seen of Town!Cabd, it seems like you can BoP them, and with me sitting at their scummiest scum slot, then I know that they are failing that.

I think that medea + mantee have a lot of scum equity together. With Manatee trying to vaguely discredit the medea wagon, and that being what got her caught. And now medea putting me as their #1 scum and then Manatee as thier #2 scum, despite that pairing making little sense, to me at least. But you know, fos your buddy, vote a townie and all. If that leads to a miselim on me, then congrats, but if manatee still goes through they can give off the appearance of passing a BoP

please stop eroding my scumread with good posts like this one. a little persuasive, too.

if you're missing something, i'm missing it too

[ManateeGal]

@anyone who played w me in NQN

do you think im purposely underplaying myself again in a way i admitted to in that game?

I'm one of your sole champions and you've got me confused why you're asking this

well that seemed to be the basis about what ffer was refferring to in the post ceph just quoted. im curious as to if anyone believes im doing the same

[Spiffeh]

I have less meta-experience, but I'm not getting similar vibes here so far in comparison to Town-Spiffeh in WH13.

WH13 was probably my favorite town game I've ever played because I was able to get a grasp on the game state so quickly and had a lot reads I felt passionate about (even if they were wrong) super early on. I was also coming off a streak of like four scum games in a row and was delighted to have finally rolled Town so I tried harder than I normally would in my Town games of old.

So while I hope to get to that level this game and understand why you'd use WH13 as a reference for meta purposes, if you use that sample size of one game to read me, nine times out of ten you're going to be disappointed.

[Here There Be Dragons]

VOTE: spiffeh

~std

[unwnd]

@anyone who played w me in NQN

do you think im purposely underplaying myself again in a way i admitted to in that game?

I'm one of your sole champions and you've got me confused why you're asking this

well that seemed to be the basis about what ffer was refferring to in the post ceph just quoted. im curious as to if anyone believes im doing the same

Why does that matter to you if you are?

The only thing that has stuck me in terms of if I'm wrong about you is that you were guilty conscience spewing earlier. I think a common tactic for scum is to sometimes to be dangerously honest, because it can trip townies up who are looking for more deceptive and evasive responses. Your thoughts to me this game are much more raw than what I observed in NQN

[ArcAngel9]

UNVOTE:

ceph i don't want to do medea

aa9 could you elaborate on the following more (re: Spiffeh)

And for the rest of your reads on others sounds fake and scum motivated.

~std

Since the first post itself - Post #41 - Who says that? and he has already given a scum team there!

VOTE: ArcAngel

Read ~most~ of the game. Only slot I felt nothing positive about so far. I feel really icky about the multiple allusions to misunderstanding/not knowing the set up below:

What about sending shards to mafia, since they are already are demons so sending shards doesn't affect them? I believe the mafia wins when convert at least 7 more town players into demons. Is my understanding of the setup is accurate? can someone validate and confirm on this?

this confuses me. i need to read the setup again!

The second quote in particular is not something that needs to be announced in the thread, and contributes to the "look at me I have no prior setup knowledge which makes me Town!" narrative established in the first quote where she assumes all scum are demonic which we know to be untrue.

She doesn't like the Medea wagon but instead of digging into that discomfort she decides to chase after notty and Penguin to answer questions that don't feel all that fruitful?

Basically several things feel off to the point where it could just be a playstyle quirk that doesn't sit well with me but I kinda have a lot of town and null reads so I don't have anywhere else I wanna put my vote atm

Also think notty is ridiculously obvtown and wanna sheep him even though I predict he will interpret this as buddying and be skeeved out by it!

This post really caught my eye. Not because he was voting on me but the reasons he shared.

1. I have never said or quoted saying that - "I didn't understand town and that makes me town" , It looks like he found an advantage to hop on to build a wagon. Why didn't others leap on this because a townie would rather want to build a solid case, not jump on advantages.
2. I didn't like medea because of the fact how quickly it was built (within hours) and what is wrong in wanting to figure out why everyone scum reading Medea. How does that make me scum but not others especially those who found no good reasons to hop into Medea wagon?

And in his post #789, he softly puts his scum read opinion on Medea so that he could hop into their wagon whenever he wants. (It sounds to me like Scum creating options on day 1 as Medea is a leading wagon)

that 41 is nai. maybe lean a little bad for the "i'm town" claim but the scumteam seems just random to me.

what's a real read spiffeh had that isn't on you that seems forced?

~std

In a nut shell

1. He tried to take advantage of my situation about being unfamiliar with the setup
2. He doesn't seem to have another strong reads except shown interest to join Medea wagon
3. And the vibe i got form his other posts and reads, doesn't seem town to me at all.

[Annie Edison]

I honestly think I’m okay with competing AA9/Spiffy wagons

[Annie Edison]

I honestly think I’m okay with competing AA9/Spiffy wagons

[Snarky Fishes]

I'd say Pooky/You (Snarky)/Medea are my three russians who I think contain at least one scum.

urge to OMGUS, rising.

It did not escape my attention that last night you mirrored something I said in the Guardians game about how we haven't had a game where we vibed.

I felt like the nearly normal game was close to a breakthrough in that realm, but maybe being in a hydra interferes.

I was thinking about this conflict last night.

My tendency when a townread of mine isn't townreading me is to take a can-opener to my head and transparify my thought process as much as possible, warts and all, especially if the townread doesn't know me.

I tried that with you, though I suspected you know my playstyle a lot better than you were letting on at the time.

sometimes transparifying helps. sometimes not.

and sometimes I wind up in a paranoid spiral about it. :/

[ArcAngel9]

I honestly think I’m okay with competing AA9/Spiffy wagons

On a second thought if Spiffeh is not happening . Town should lynch this!