Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[borkjerfkin]

not even VCing here just flexing

i guess we're keeping amir garrett around in case he needs to fight the entire pirates bench again

because it sure isn't to pitch

yes i've been drinking

[Lukewarm]

If you want to kill Titus

Then why not vote Titus

Vote for what you believe in

Democracy

I want to kill both, but I only have one vote. smh.

I thought you wanted us to kill big fish?

[Medea the Alien]

Now to discuss each read and why they go to where they are.

[unwnd]

If you want to kill Titus

Then why not vote Titus

Vote for what you believe in

Democracy

I want to kill both, but I only have one vote. smh.

I thought you wanted us to kill big fish?

Diplomacy

[unwnd]

Penguin's reads, for convenience.

Spoiler:

This is just PA right now. You can get a more blended post from us later when we're back in the same county again.

First, I apologize that I couldn't be around last night. I feel really badly about telling people (Dragons) I wanted to talk and then ditching instead.

More useful to the game though, slogging down the Dan Ryan is surprisingly good for mulling over Reads: Why I Have Them, so here's where I am for all of you waiting so raptly:

Town

Dunnstral: He's just town to me. Aside from the mechanics understanding missing, I haven't seen a post from him that doesn't feel like it's coming from a town mindset. No attempts to ingratiate himself with others, no jumping to post opinions that others want to see from him. Measured in a way that comes from a town mindset.

AA9: This is probably the opposite of my Dunnstral read while still ending up as town. Way back in the day I got to play a lot of games with AA9. My temperament wasn't such that I usually (ever?) ended up getting pulled into her spat-fight type posting as a co-jouster, but I witnessed a lot of her play. It's...pretty much textbook town!AA9. If she managed to go on a multi-year hiatus and come back to jump into her first playing game perfectly replicating her town style as scum, well then, hats off. I'm hoping she can come in and reset from her and notscience's scenery-chewing fest and generate content elsewhere. But hard town read for me.

Annie Edison: Town read. I don't like all their content this game, but I like their in-the-moment reactions. Dropping off us and then circling back later felt like genuinely reassessing town. Dropping the elimbait AA9 fight and the way they did it, town. I'm aiming to go back and reread some of their posting with a more firm town-alignment assumption for them and see what I get from it.

Snarky Fishes: Yes, Bell, you can ride with ffery for me again. I've only skimmed a bit of what got posted last night, but I'm seeing some game-solvy stuff I like from Bell specifically (even if I think my take on Pooky is different). And having also spent some time navel-gazing about my own hydra dynamic with Cabd, I think I get what ffery is looking for, not seeing, and freaking about. I like their reachout to Lukewarm, and I like their thought processes elsewhere too. Moving on, but can elaborate more later today if asked.

Leaning Town

Spiffeh: I'm not a Spiffeh reading machine like some other players here purport to be. I've liked him more and more as the day goes on. I see him looking to engage and being...flashy? It's a lean, and I need to fully catch up and see if/what he posted last night more. P-edit: saw his 'first ten pages' thing and kind of like some of what he's seeing in hindsight. Happy with him in this tier.

Rhea: I'll start with my impression of LLD as a player overall. I don't see her as someone who has conversations with people who aren't her elim targets with the goal of having her mind changed. She engages with those people to make them believe her point of view, as town or scum. To me it probably doesn't much matter if Rhea's the one playing; I'm seeing the same kind of approach here from her. Her reachouts of 'talk to me' are 'ask me questions so I can tell you what you should be thinking.' I think I wish I was seeing more of a freely-chosen target choice more often from her here. Maybe someone else can frame this better. In terms of her alignment here, I'm leaning town but don't have anything shiny to point to in support of that. Just a 'surprised Rhea makes the plays she does here as scum' feeling.

Sleez/unwnd: I liked the Sleez posting better. Sorry? I suspect a lot of my discomfort with his play since then is because he's very much focuses on the clique thing, and for me personally the idea of being in a clique is uncomfortable and not how I want to see myself. Something I have to address internally I suppose if I opt to play any more games going forward. I don't like the framing around interacting with us as 'I do/don't trust you' because barring your own role PM or mod-confirmed info, you never fully trust someone. It's a lot of bluster about something that I don't think is very relevant to working toward game-solving as town. Having said that, I liked the independent thought from Sleez earlier on, and I appreciate the food for thought of some of his reads here.

Averaging out to Null

Pooky: I think my take on Pooky is colored by often having read his recent games either knowing his alignment or seeing his first few days of posting from a more removed point. But I'd disagree with Bell in that regard, that usually I can see where town-Pooky is pushing people toward content or doing things he can sort rather than going off into the outfield to pick daisies like he does as scum. I think he's a bit like Cabd-scum in that this can change if he sees something shiny worth doing in the main game as scum, but then it tends to be more--insular?--like the LOLMasons in that FakeGod game. I'm not seeing anything here so far that makes me think town!Pooky. That might change in a couple game days with more data, but that's where I am now.

Here There Be Dragons: I'm still at the flashes thing. I'm moving y'all up to null because a) I haven't read your overnight content and b) in my commute today amidst my navel-gazing about how my own hydra with my husband is working/not working so far, I think I have some sympathy for the dynamic of taking two people who may be quite complementary IRL and making their games mesh for the thread's consumption. I'll try to have more here later today.

Lean Scum

I'll preface this category with 'this is very mushy and I don't like how I've interacted with two of the three of these players entirely, but I also don't like how they've posted, so shrugface?'

Lukewarm: Yes, I'm leaning scummy here, but I don't want to vote here today. I don't like a lot of what I've seen, and some of that may be old-school sensibilities coming out, but I don't like that he jumped into my line of questioning at Dunnstral. I thought it was rude and unproductive for my read on him. I triple-ISO'd it and while it did end up cementing a Dunnstral town read for me, if Dunnstral had responded in a way I read as scummy I wouldn't have trusted it as much because of the derail. I'm not seeing town play here, but I want to give space and see what's generated today, plus what Lukewarm might do with actual flip data. I wasn't impressed with his reaction to the Snarky Fishes reachout yesterday; it seemed half-hearted after all the talk of wanting to be townread by ffery. IIRC it worked for ffery to read him better, and part of the 'not voting here today' thing is that I am townreading ffery and am willing to give some weight to her opinions.

ManateeGal: I'm seeing a lot of whiplash here, from an initial scummy reaction to being suspected that reads like a lot of squawky scum to trying to react 'right' to what people are saying in the thread. I'm not as happy about this read because I feel like I've been sticking my own oar in her reactions, and this is where Cabd's style really doesn't mesh with mine. I would have rather stayed mum about my interpretation of her reaction and readslist to see if she'd get there on her own instead of (relatively quickly) pointing out what I saw as a non-town mindset in her play. I feel like I've tainted my read on her, but I have a hard time seeing where I'd ever townbin her after her early play here.

Titus: Nothing in Titus's ISO feels town to me. There's a disproportionate reliance on the mechanic that I don't like on Day One, and while I make allowance for the weekend, I don't feel like there's any attempt to get into the game from a solving perspective. I don't buy the 'OMG game has so many pages' thing partially because she was quite critical of the idea of page limits in my Warehouse 13 game. To me, that implies being fine with Day One rambling on from a game perspective. She's also avoiding really mixing it up with anyone, and I don't feel like it's coming from a town place. More of a 'keep head down, shove the problem down the line, and see where I can jump later' thing that comes from a scum playbook.

VOTE: Titus

No, this isn't a fun vote, but it's where I think scum is living, and I'm more interested in cutting down scum numbers (especially since I suspect that if she's scum she isn't demonized yet) than having brilliant insights.

--PA

My current personal reads sit around something like (placement within same tier is all equal):

{fferybell, ArcAngel9}
{Titus*, Annie} *I have not done more than skim about the Luke case made about the claim and need to go re-read for content.
{Dunn, Spiff, Uwnd, Pooks}
{Rhea, Dragons}
{Luke*, Manatee} *See above note about Luke's recent content

But to be clear, it's not that those bottom four names are my hero solve, it's that I have good reasons to town read everyone above them. I am LITERALLY not scumhunting very hard this game, because this is a bridge builder game. I want to find town, bloc with town, and win the game that way. Shared cognitive load, because I'm not sure I can handle the pressure of "yet another hero game" and getting all the fucking flak for it too. Don't sit there like you didn't wax poetic about how much easy games suck. You got your illicit drug-dueled wish on the monkey's paw.

Oh yeah I'm having a great time

I love feeling lost but I don't love when D1 is gonna end up in a crater to be forgotten

[Medea the Alien]

{fferybell, ArcAngel9}

FferyBell

- Bell has exited his scum range, and despite the hyper-vigilance from ffery, her trepidation is believable because of tenet. I don't think this is the approach taken after tenet-2181 duels, but heck, maybe they're both godly scum players and it's my turn to get tenet'd. They deserve the fucking medal if that's the case though. I doubt it is. There's a lot more here that belongs in the Morph PT postgame. Maybe once we both go back on outside-of-morph-playing hiatus and then come out of it in another five years or something.

ArcAngel9

- I think this is the most obviously correct Meta read I've had since my return. Literally just go read a few games of each alignment from ArcAngel. It's like she never left. The fact that I could walk in to my newly-returned basement, dig through old Pokémon card binders to find ye olde metabinder 2014 edition, and pick up right where I left off is no strong surprise, nor is it any less valid.

[Annie Edison]

IM BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

[Lukewarm]

IM BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

You missed the kumbaya, we are all friends here moment from the last page

[Annie Edison]

I mean yeah

my number 1 character strength/flaw is i want to be friends with everyone

[Annie Edison]

I really liked the followthrough on Manateegal interacting with LLD. I think a lot of times people make throwaway commitments and dont follow through but follow through typically indicates town.

Speaking of lack of follow through I got majority of the way through the thread tracking LLD interactions and was coming up with zilch. A lot of people just avoided interacting altogether and the people who normally interact with her have all been doing so.

[Medea the Alien]

{Titus*, Annie} *I have not done more than skim about the Luke case made about the claim and need to go re-read for content.

Titus

- I didn't particularly agree with Penguin's scum read here when the vote went down, but I also encouraged her to explore it anyways. Titus is a player whose internal logic ~IS~ consistent, even if it may appear baffling to the outside, hence the "moon logic" recurring joke. The friendly neighbor seeking shards claim COULD have scum utility (and I feel like Luke got into this and we may even converge a bit in that regards) but I don't think that Titus, explicitly, is the type of scum to do that sort of claim with only two votes on her. Instead, this very much reads as Titus finally being dealt a hand she believes can be used as a mousetrap, and thinking a scum bear stuck his big toe into it. Either way, it sets Titus to not live until endgame and I feel like given Titus's recent won games (and narrow losses), she understands the importance of not lining up to lemmings off of cliffs as mafia.

Annie

- I feel like scum-Annie goes super hard into the ArcAngel tunnel there instead of backing off. Even the manner in which they backed off but also denoted that they reserved the right to still scum read her, felt town. I had serious misgivings early on, but it's sure better than thinking they were a scum neighborizer we'd have to town read until day two to reveal their nefarious plot to the world, eh? On a re-read with those early issues regressed to the back of my mind, earlier content shines a lot better than at first light.

[Medea the Alien]

This really does feel like a chore as opposed to something that is helping me read the game, but whatever, if it helps you all read me it's doable.

[Snarky Fishes]

In other news, spiffeh has officially left my "I want to kill list" and has been replaced by titus. Congrats to you both.

Would kill: Medea, Manatee, Titus

May I ask how you've come to the conclusion that you don't want to kill me?

I like hearing nice things said about me

I decided I wanted to kill Titus more

<3

Spoiler: hood

how do you weigh up your certainty about titus's posts with the possibility she's mod-confirmable town?

Do you think someone who should know more than we do about the setup, how the shards work, etc., would make that fake narrative hold up? She would be pretending to know even less about the game than any townie who took a moment to skim the setup description post.

I'm not convinced she's town by a very, very long shot.

I'm weighing that against giving the time needed for her claim to resolve...or not.

[Annie Edison]

Cabd I'm most interested in why Rhea is so low on your list. What am I missing?

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: hood

how do you weigh up your certainty about titus's posts with the possibility she's mod-confirmable town?

Do you think someone who should know more than we do about the setup, how the shards work, etc., would make that fake narrative hold up? She would be pretending to know even less about the game than any townie who took a moment to skim the setup description post.

I'm not convinced she's town by a very, very long shot.

I'm weighing that against giving the time needed for her claim to resolve...or not.

Spoiler:

Honestly, I am not quite sure. That is one of the reasons she made it into my scum pile, but not the person who received my vote.

If we want to let her claim resolve itself, then that requires us to commit to powering her up. And so far, that does not seem like the direction that we are headed. Or is that something that you would want us to consider?

[Medea the Alien]

Cabd I'm most interested in why Rhea is so low on your list. What am I missing?

Mostly? Other names deserve to be higher, and a snap realization that I nearly had this exact sort of ringamarole in yggdrassil. "other people get me into the game" and then "Cabd push until mod confirmed meant that we can't" although still waiting for drunkbork to announce we're a hidden inno child mass neighborizer role and that my "lol you're a fucking doctor who gets role blocked just by having literally anyone touch you" one is a sick joke in the vein of Bell's player name cop from Yggdra.

[Here There Be Dragons]

Cabd I'm most interested in why Rhea is so low on your list. What am I missing?

Mostly? Other names deserve to be higher, and a snap realization that I nearly had this exact sort of ringamarole in yggdrassil. "other people get me into the game" and then "Cabd push until mod confirmed meant that we can't" although still waiting for drunkbork to announce we're a hidden inno child mass neighborizer role and that my "lol you're a fucking doctor who gets role blocked just by having literally anyone touch you" one is a sick joke in the vein of Bell's player name cop from Yggdra.

i get why this role wouldn't excite you but i really would think you'd be better than to completely out yourself for no reason so this just feels like ATE!

[Medea the Alien]

?

I'm already out dude. What do you mean "out myself for no reason" I already claimed all of this?

[Here There Be Dragons]

did you say doctor specifically? if so, i missed it

[Annie Edison]

I had this post typed up about how I dont think thats what shes doing then realized I had to ask her a lot of stuff to get a bearing on where she stands on everything.

But its weird to swap it from you to me though, right? I feel like I dont have as much pull this game as morph did in yggdra.

[Lukewarm]

I remember the self roleblocking part of your claim, but this is the first time I have seen you mention being a doctor

[Here There Be Dragons]

i dont think it makes sense to out any of it anyway... you can dislike it but why guarantee that you won't be useful. maybe there aren't a lot of targeting roles in the setup, we don't know!

[Medea the Alien]

did you say doctor specifically? if so, i missed it

Did you miss the entire back and forth with ffery where we said we were a useless doctor a la the poison doctor in Tales of Vesperia?

[Annie Edison]

(cabd that was too deep for me its going to be too deep for most of the people here)

[Medea the Alien]

I mean maybe some of you are so used to not deepreading my posts that such things flew over your heads, but, whatever. It's felt like we've been out.