Newbie 2076 [Game Over]

[Roden]

I'm pretty low key this game because it's my first town newbie game in almost two months and I just had to use scum tactics as town in a themed game. I'm just kinda drained and taking it easy right now since I'm pretty sure town wins this game if the set up is what I think it is.

[Roden]

First scum is almost guaranteed to be between LQ and Margot btw. It's pinging me as TvS pretty hard. Pretty sure we can turbo elim both if the first one flips green.

[T3]

I'm pretty low key this game because it's my first town newbie game in almost two months and I just had to use scum tactics as town in a themed game. I'm just kinda drained and taking it easy right now since I'm pretty sure town wins this game if the set up is what I think it is.

whoa what newbie 2065 was 2 months ago?

[Roden]

I'm pretty low key this game because it's my first town newbie game in almost two months and I just had to use scum tactics as town in a themed game. I'm just kinda drained and taking it easy right now since I'm pretty sure town wins this game if the set up is what I think it is.

whoa what newbie 2065 was 2 months ago?

Yep, June 11th was the last post. And I'm only half counting Summertime since I replaced out early.

[T3]

Oh I joined 6 months ago
oh

[Umlaut]

StrangeMatter replaces Astra. Please welcome them!

[Roden]

Hey Strange, hopefully I'll actually finish this game with you this time.

[StrangeMatter]

Hello everyone. I’ve been looking and have some thoughts about the Tracker stuff in particular.

[StrangeMatter]

Nobody has claimed tracker but I still think the risks involved should be noted. We do know scum knows what column (A, B, or C) but not the PRs exactly. Of course, looking at the chart there’s three combinations of scum and PRs of Tracker claims. Town Tracker and Town Jailkeeper vs Mafia RBer, Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor vs Mafia Rolecop, and Town Tracker with Town Doctor vs Town Rolecop.
So if we’re in Column A, it’s basically confirmed there is a Jailkeeper they need to kill among 6 other people. If it’s column B, they only need to look into a group of 6 people with both a kill and seeing someone’s role.

[StrangeMatter]

In short terms, basically giving information to scum that shouldn’t be given for this trade off imo.

[Egix96]

Do you have any questions about those paragraphs? Or, also, does it help if I add that, in light of recent developments, part of the reason I had Margot so high was I thought she had hinted tracker, so I’m less confident now that I know that’s not the case. Can’t see enough to push to a SL though. As for the last paragraph, it was just some general comment on the wagon?

If I had had any questions, I would have asked them at the time, but it's just that the reasoning felt a bit contrived imo.

So the real question is what Margot thought they were doing (in their second vote on me). There was something else I didn't like... The fact that they very well know they can switch their vote to someone else (demonstrated by their Unvote of T3). So it's just really really weird.

Yeah. At this point I'm just waiting for her to give her side of it.

[Clasko]

If I’m processing right, everyone has checked in since Hockey’s claim except for Clasko, so unless Clasko cc’s then we can clear Hockey. So we’ll see tomorrow when the V/LA ends but odds are good.

Mobileposting on today’s catch-up so I’ll be doing shorter posts.

@Turtwig if you saw the end of my #55, you would already know I claimed I wasn't the Tracker.

I agree with your reasoning for the Roden slot. Whilst it's easy to hide behind a strategy, I think they've chosen a weird place to position themselves, and a possibly unadvantageous one as scum given T3's play at the beginning of the game, which is why I would give Roden slightly more townier status than your null one to them, rn.
Hockey is more-or-less conftown (so now I currently have no scum reads), and your Margot read I agree with (but slightly different reasoning). We differ on our LQ reads, and additionally I agree with your opinion, and Roden's #167 (after looking at LQ's ISO at start of game) that the wagon on them was too quick to form over a speculation of RQS.

Do you disagree/agree with any of my reads? #115 to #121? Granted #115 is incorrect, and ig they're sort of a lifetime ago at this point.

[Clasko]

@StrangeMatter

Welcome.

Ok fine I'll just claim so we can get T3/Roden to play the game!! I am tracker, im gonna go for the night so i will probs re read game tmr afternoon or smh after work

If you aren't countering his claim, then Hockey is conftown.
(sorry for the SL, Hockey)

[Clasko]

@MargotRosa:

I can't really disagree with your reasoning on me tbh, except I will contest you on your 'meh reflection on RQS' because I literally put my heart and soul into it.
Seriously though, my 'close the door on T3 elim' probably comes from a place of paranoia rather than what he's done in this game - you say 'Roden feels more like a wildcard than T3' but I'd reverse that opinion. T3 will do whatever he wants to do. Like Hockey I also heavily struggle to read him.

[Clasko]

For when you come back: are you able to explain why that was?
On that note: I'm finding Alstro's 130 to be meh, mainly because I don't vibe with the reasoning given in the first and last paragraphs.

Yeah - 'vibes' is kind of ambiguous, compared to your reasoning for reading slots later which I thought was much more solid.
That's why I'm calling it 'meh' - neither here nor there. Turns out you were right about Hockey, though.

Same question to you as I had to Turtwig: Any of my reads you vibe/don't vibe with?

[Clasko]

The wagon on LQ built up a little too fast. I think it's weird that he's focused on me saying "honestly" once, and he's clearly panicking and scrambling to avoid getting elim'd.

But this is feeling more like a townie flail than a scum flail.

Like, less like his back is against the wall and more like he got ganged up on and he doesn't think it's fair. Plus, there's basically been zero resistance to this wagon. If LQ is scum, then his scum buddy would have to be bussing him extremely early into the game.

First scum is almost guaranteed to be between LQ and Margot btw. It's pinging me as TvS pretty hard. Pretty sure we can turbo elim both if the first one flips green.

@Roden:

Given you thought LQ's flail was townie, would you yeet Margot first over LQ?

[Clasko]

Uhh... I'll join in with LQ here for the time being even though a green flip doesn't say much at this moment in time:

VOTE: T3

[T3]

Actually, LQ's post on me can't be faked.

[T3]

Uhh... I'll join in with LQ here for the time being even though a green flip doesn't say much at this moment in time:

VOTE: T3

VOTE: clasko
methinks this is perspective slip

[Egix96]

Same question to you as I had to Turtwig: Any of my reads you vibe/don't vibe with?

I'm not really seeing any issues with how you've been going about explaining your reads thus far, and I'm willing to admit you may have a point about Margot in 120.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Alstroemerial

^ Not feeling super confident in this vote as of rn, but it's better than idling.

[T3]

Clasko said 'a green flip'
Clasko is scum knowing I will flip green

[MargotRosa]

The site meta (which you should know by now) is that when someone gets to E-1, then either someone claims "intent to hammer" and then the person claims, OR if it is too early in the day or something, then you would unvote them so a quick Elim doesn't happen.

What doesn't makes sense is either Margot knew I was at E-1 when they voted me and wanted to unvote me, or they thought that they had to announce I was E-1 with their vote, which still means they knew they were putting me at E-1 with their vote. It gets a little confusing since Margot also voted me as an E-2 vote, which doesn't make any sense to me at all. I mean, I can see a world where Margot thought they had to announce me at E-1, but what I DON'T get is why they thought they had to announce I was at E-2. That doesn't make a lick of sense given what I said above.

Ok, so I'll go post by post to make it clear what happened.

VOTE: LQ

This is the first vote I cast for LQ. I just chucked the vote on. I thought, at this point, that Astra's vote did not count, but hadn't counted how many votes had gone down. This is why I made the following post, which makes no sense as the very next post unless I was being an idiot who had no clue what she was doing:

UNVOTE:

VOTE: LQ e-1

I unvoted LQ, and

in the same post

voted LQ again, with the e-1 tag. This should make zero sense to anyone, given the rules and given the fact that I thought LQ was at e-2 after my vote.

What makes it make sense is the fact that I misread the rules (again, 4 hours sleep average for the last week lol) and thought that adding e-1 to a vote meant that the vote couldn't be used to hammer, but rather meant that, if someone tried to hammer your vote, the vote would no longer count. (ie. it only counts up until # votes <= e - 1).

When I realised what had happened, I changed the vote a second time:

licketys at E-1 lol wtf? I think from Lickety's reactions to being put at e-1 is town+. They arent panicking like scum would nor are they doing damage control(ie giving some last min scumreads to distance from thier maf partner)

Totally misunderstood what e-X rules were. Thought it meant that your vote would only count up to n-1 votes, which meant people couldn't hammer off your vote. I believe the only votes for LQ are Roden, T3 and myself, so I'll correct

VOTE: LQ e-2

Worth pointing out that, in these three posts, I have not actually changed anything. Every single one was just a vote for LQ. I thought that the e-X was a modifier on what the vote meant, and how high the vote could be counted (which I'd realised by the third, which is why I clarified that it was e-2.)

Once I realised what had happened, and realised that Astra's vote for LQ still counted, I unvoted.

UNVOTE:

I know it all seems daft, and it is incredibly daft. I apologise and won't make the mistake again.

[MargotRosa]

And now I've screwed the formatting of the last post. Fml

[HockeyFan]

First scum is almost guaranteed to be between LQ and Margot btw. It's pinging me as TvS pretty hard. Pretty sure we can turbo elim both if the first one flips green.

This is like the easiest read to make in this gamestate lol. U dont think Margot can be town?

[HockeyFan]

Okay isoing alsotrmiel, I think they can stay at a TL for me

Okey dokey, here is where I am at.

I am getting strong town sense from Margot, contrary to what some others have said. It seems like she is really trying to sort -- some internal back and forth is good. I really liked 53 although I didn't check the math. It reads to me like a newbie who is really determined to put in the work.

I feel like scum intentioally doesnt have way differnet reads then others

Hockey is a town lean for me, though I disagree with the argument in 94 that withholding information is

always

anti-town. If someone is trying to bait a trap or is an investigation role who doesn't want to share results until they have a guilty, etc, there are some cases where that's good to hold back. If T3 was trying to do a spicy town play, which is totally T3, then not spelling out the details is beneficial. But the way that he's making his argument reads town, even if I disagree with it. Although I just realized it could be scum trying to get info on what the play is. Still not enough to change my read though.

T3 is probably town for the exact reason that Hockey outlined -- it's a huge gambit for scum to do right out the gate, so it seems unlikely.

Roden is null. 77 struck me as weird as well, but I don't see why scum would town lock T3 after that risky play. Then again, he then went on to walk back that town lock in 91.

Clasko and Egix are null.

The Astra slot is a sliiiiight scum lean because even with so few posts and the swift replace out, it seemed like she might have been jumping on the LQ wagon, and her RVS vote was also a wagon.

LQ -- I get a bad sense from 125. It reads a bit like complaining about getting scumread with a liiitle smidgeon of omgus, especially considering they imply that T3's gambit isn't scummy in 57 before bringing in a little more setup speculation.

The main thing that gives me pause is the very fact that LQ is a wagon already. It could be a quick and easy miselim. I also have no interest in pushing anyone to E-1 right now, so I'll leave my vote on the Astra slot for now to put a little extra fire on whoever joins in.

You mentioned in this post that LQ is on a wagon, yet you still SR them? Why dont u think LQ being wagoned makes them town

Overall, tho, I like the geuininesss of these reads enough that they might be town

Since I also took issue with a defensive tone in my reads post, I would say that being overly defensive is suspicious because, up to a point, town should be okay with being suspected — it helps other people develop their reads and everyone solve. Scum OTOH are often much more wary about how they’re perceived and more eager to satisfy town or take down any suspicions as soon and thoroughly as possible.

I say up to a point because, in a case like yours now that you’re a E-1, it becomes more troubling to town because you want to avoid getting mislimmed entirely.

I do agree that Roden’s agreement with T3 in and of itself isn’t AI — I will say that I’m also more confident in my T3 read and think there’s no reason for the two of them to do this as a team, so there is a universe where Roden is pocketing. Still I think it’s more likely for Roden to just also be an eager town.

What makes Roden town? Idt the whole interaction necessarily makes them town, I dont like the soft defending of Roden here, but eh w/e u can stay at null