mini normal 2226; who won

[MathBlade]

VC 1.09

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Titus 390, Vulture 456, Flubbernugget 537

D-1

Flubbernugget (3):

Umlaut 29, T3 113, Alchemist21 371

ChaosOmega (2):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 261

Vulture (1):

MegAzumarill 579

not voting:

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.

[Titus]

Both of these theories suck imho.

You don’t know what scum would or wouldn’t do until you find the narrative.

Start from what is known which is Umlaut scum.

We know Meg is town. We know Datisi is town. I know I am town. I trust Datisi's scumhunting this game so that Chaos is town enough to run a VCA supposing he is.

Not doubting any of those reads.
I am saying your VCA is flawed.

Your VCA is better when you have a scum narrative. Your biggest weakness when doing VCA is not finding it which then makes it a field day for scum to manipulate.

VOTE: Unvote

Datisi is not scum in any plausible universe so he is not manipulating me.

[Titus]

VC 1.09

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Titus 390, Vulture 456, Flubbernugget 537

D-1

Flubbernugget (3):

Umlaut 29, T3 113, Alchemist21 371

ChaosOmega (2):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 261

Vulture (1):

MegAzumarill 579

not voting:

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.

Day ends too early, suspicious hammer, draws attention, etc. Plenty of reasons

[MathBlade]

Didn’t say Datisi I said a deep wolf.

Yes. Those are possible reasons but those need to be looked at from the current narrative to see where scum are on the wagon.

You’re speaking in generalities and not actually analyzing the wagons here.

[ChaosOmega]

VC 1.09

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Titus 390, Vulture 456, Flubbernugget 537

D-1

Flubbernugget (3):

Umlaut 29, T3 113, Alchemist21 371

ChaosOmega (2):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 261

Vulture (1):

MegAzumarill 579

not voting:

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.

Why didn't Umlaut hammer here? Must be town oh wait.

Also, you, Alch, and Luke were all on the wagon when it went through, so I don't fully get your point here?

[MathBlade]

VC 1.09

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Titus 390, Vulture 456, Flubbernugget 537

D-1

Flubbernugget (3):

Umlaut 29, T3 113, Alchemist21 371

ChaosOmega (2):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 261

Vulture (1):

MegAzumarill 579

not voting:

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.

Why didn't Umlaut hammer here? Must be town oh wait.

Also, you, Alch, and Luke were all on the wagon when it went through, so I don't fully get your point here?

My point is find the differences between this post and end of day. Who stayed on who moved off and who moved on. VCA is shit without the why.

[MathBlade]

Yes Umlaut didn’t hammer IIRC he was posting at that time.

Why? What was Umlaut doing?

[ChaosOmega]

You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.

That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.

[Datisi]

umlaut was not posting at the time, i think. i skimmed from the y-1 vote to prism's unvote, i don't think he posted in that period. but also flubber incorrectly called the vote out as y-2 so lol? but i'm really really not interested in clearing anyone for not hammering there where we were in the middle of discussion about meg and mathblade was just catching up and whoever hammered would've been under a lot of heat tomorrow.

pedit: nice

[Titus]

Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town

[MathBlade]

You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.

That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.

Most D1s for a game of this size last about 600-1000 posts more or less.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12830137

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12834380

Outlier: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12899932

You can ISO other mini normals to see this too.

The fact Meg wasn’t flipped here and was later means something. D1 went abnormally long

[MathBlade]

umlaut was not posting at the time, i think. i skimmed from the y-1 vote to prism's unvote, i don't think he posted in that period. but also flubber incorrectly called the vote out as y-2 so lol? but i'm really really not interested in clearing anyone for not hammering there where we were in the middle of discussion about meg and mathblade was just catching up and whoever hammered would've been under a lot of heat tomorrow.

pedit: nice

Again why are people assuming clearing or scum based on this?

That’s not my argument. My argument is find the narrative.

[MathBlade]

Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town

I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there but anyone.

[MathBlade]

Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town

I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there but anyone.

By anyone edit by way of post.

I wish I had time to do a proper VCA but I don’t.

[MathBlade]

Also the whoever hammered would be under heat tomorrow is just historically not true.

If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
Furthermore it’s usually not hammers that get pressured. That’s a myth.

[Datisi]

most 13p games that i've played recently were ~70-80 page day ones. the obvious outlier is that game where caught scum got lolhammered on page 15. so i strongly disagree that ending the day there would've been natural, but whatever. my point anyway is that if anyone were to have hammered there, they would've been sticking out like a sore thumb the next day because multiple people were catching up / discussing.

Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town

I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there by anyone.

HOW does "meg didn't get hammered early by scum" = "omega is scum"?

[Datisi]

If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.

???????

are you serious? there was no way to know during d1 that he would've gotten a guilty??

[MathBlade]

most 13p games that i've played recently were ~70-80 page day ones. the obvious outlier is that game where caught scum got lolhammered on page 15. so i strongly disagree that ending the day there would've been natural, but whatever. my point anyway is that if anyone were to have hammered there, they would've been sticking out like a sore thumb the next day because multiple people were catching up / discussing.

Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town

I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there by anyone.

HOW does "meg didn't get hammered early by scum" = "omega is scum"?

Again not what I am saying.

I am saying a player town or scum hammers there. The day went on too long there that’s all. I have to go back and read that section to find why and see who hopped on later and who went off.

It’s more likely scum was on Meg and off later based on gut but I need to see what the thread narrative supports.

In a non deep wolf game Meg is hammered there.

I don’t like how you’re making arguments here that apply to specific players. I am analyzing the wagons to try to figure out what scum were doing combined with the narrative. It doesn’t point to players it points to gameplay style

[MathBlade]

If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.

???????

are you serious? there was no way to know during d1 that he would've gotten a guilty??

Not my point. I am saying that hammers don’t always get pressured.

[Datisi]

titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.

[Titus]

I look forward to engaging you when you have that alternative theory. I get that's not likely until tmo.

Humankind looks awesome.

[ChaosOmega]

If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED

Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.

[MathBlade]

titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.

No it’s not. That’s you making an assumption and putting words in my mouth AGAIN.

It’s what I am struggling with. That’s all. I don’t have an answer for that yet as I haven’t done a proper VCA.

Just because I point out a flaw doesn’t mean I necessarily have the solution.

[MathBlade]

I look forward to engaging you when you have that alternative theory. I get that's not likely until tmo.

Humankind looks awesome.

It does.

You know what?

V/LA until Wednesday after work maybe Thursday

This gives me time to enjoy its release and maybe time for an actual VCA. Not whatever that BS was.

[MathBlade]

If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED

Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.

I am saying someone would hammer there. SKs aren’t allowed in normals.

Day was way too long there. Find the reason for the outlier find the scum.