mini normal 2226; who won

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Post Post #1975 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:21 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 605, tris wrote:
VC 1.09Image

MegAzumarill (6):
Datisi , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , Titus , Vulture , Flubbernugget
D-1

Flubbernugget (3):
Umlaut , T3 , Alchemist21
ChaosOmega (2):
Lukewarm , MathBlade
Lukewarm (1):
ChaosOmega
Vulture (1):
MegAzumarill

not voting:


with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.


deadline:
(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)
We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #1976 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:22 am

Post by Titus »

In post 1973, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1970, Titus wrote:
In post 1968, MathBlade wrote:Both of these theories suck imho.

You don’t know what scum would or wouldn’t do until you find the narrative.

Start from what is known which is Umlaut scum.
We know Meg is town. We know Datisi is town. I know I am town. I trust Datisi's scumhunting this game so that Chaos is town enough to run a VCA supposing he is.
Not doubting any of those reads.
I am saying your VCA is flawed.

Your VCA is better when you have a scum narrative. Your biggest weakness when doing VCA is not finding it which then makes it a field day for scum to manipulate.

VOTE: Unvote
Datisi is not scum in any plausible universe so he is not manipulating me.
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Post Post #1977 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:23 am

Post by Titus »

In post 1975, MathBlade wrote:
In post 605, tris wrote:
VC 1.09Image

MegAzumarill (6):
Datisi , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , Titus , Vulture , Flubbernugget
D-1

Flubbernugget (3):
Umlaut , T3 , Alchemist21
ChaosOmega (2):
Lukewarm , MathBlade
Lukewarm (1):
ChaosOmega
Vulture (1):
MegAzumarill

not voting:


with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.


deadline:
(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)
We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.
Day ends too early, suspicious hammer, draws attention, etc. Plenty of reasons
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Post Post #1978 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:26 am

Post by MathBlade »

Didn’t say Datisi I said a deep wolf.

Yes. Those are possible reasons but those need to be looked at from the current narrative to see where scum are on the wagon.

You’re speaking in generalities and not actually analyzing the wagons here.
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Post Post #1979 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:27 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

In post 1975, MathBlade wrote:
In post 605, tris wrote:
VC 1.09Image

MegAzumarill (6):
Datisi , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , Titus , Vulture , Flubbernugget
D-1

Flubbernugget (3):
Umlaut , T3 , Alchemist21
ChaosOmega (2):
Lukewarm , MathBlade
Lukewarm (1):
ChaosOmega
Vulture (1):
MegAzumarill

not voting:


with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.


deadline:
(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)
We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.
Why didn't Umlaut hammer here? Must be town oh wait.

Also, you, Alch, and Luke were all on the wagon when it went through, so I don't fully get your point here?
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
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Post Post #1980 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:29 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1979, ChaosOmega wrote:
In post 1975, MathBlade wrote:
In post 605, tris wrote:
VC 1.09Image

MegAzumarill (6):
Datisi , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , Titus , Vulture , Flubbernugget
D-1

Flubbernugget (3):
Umlaut , T3 , Alchemist21
ChaosOmega (2):
Lukewarm , MathBlade
Lukewarm (1):
ChaosOmega
Vulture (1):
MegAzumarill

not voting:


with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.


deadline:
(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)
We know Meg is town here at this point.

Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?

Same with Alch and Luke.

These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.
Why didn't Umlaut hammer here? Must be town oh wait.

Also, you, Alch, and Luke were all on the wagon when it went through, so I don't fully get your point here?
My point is find the differences between this post and end of day. Who stayed on who moved off and who moved on. VCA is shit without the why.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #1981 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:30 am

Post by MathBlade »

Yes Umlaut didn’t hammer IIRC he was posting at that time.

Why? What was Umlaut doing?
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Post Post #1982 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:37 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.

That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.
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Post Post #1983 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:38 am

Post by Datisi »

umlaut was not posting at the time, i think. i skimmed from the y-1 vote to prism's unvote, i don't think he posted in that period. but also flubber incorrectly called the vote out as y-2 so lol? but i'm really really not interested in clearing anyone for not hammering there where we were in the middle of discussion about meg and mathblade was just catching up and whoever hammered would've been under a lot of heat tomorrow.

pedit: nice
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Post Post #1984 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:42 am

Post by Titus »

Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
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Post Post #1985 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:43 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1982, ChaosOmega wrote:You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.

That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.
Most D1s for a game of this size last about 600-1000 posts more or less.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12830137

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12834380

Outlier: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12899932

You can ISO other mini normals to see this too.

The fact Meg wasn’t flipped here and was later means something. D1 went abnormally long
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Post Post #1986 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:44 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1983, Datisi wrote:umlaut was not posting at the time, i think. i skimmed from the y-1 vote to prism's unvote, i don't think he posted in that period. but also flubber incorrectly called the vote out as y-2 so lol? but i'm really really not interested in clearing anyone for not hammering there where we were in the middle of discussion about meg and mathblade was just catching up and whoever hammered would've been under a lot of heat tomorrow.

pedit: nice
Again why are people assuming clearing or scum based on this?

That’s not my argument. My argument is find the narrative.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #1987 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:45 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there but anyone.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #1988 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:46 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1987, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there but anyone.
By anyone edit by way of post.

I wish I had time to do a proper VCA but I don’t.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #1989 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:49 am

Post by MathBlade »

Also the whoever hammered would be under heat tomorrow is just historically not true.

If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
Furthermore it’s usually not hammers that get pressured. That’s a myth.
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Post Post #1990 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:49 am

Post by Datisi »

most 13p games that i've played recently were ~70-80 page day ones. the obvious outlier is that game where caught scum got lolhammered on page 15. so i strongly disagree that ending the day there would've been natural, but whatever. my point anyway is that if anyone were to have hammered there, they would've been sticking out like a sore thumb the next day because multiple people were catching up / discussing.
In post 1987, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there by anyone.
HOW does "meg didn't get hammered early by scum" = "omega is scum"?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1991 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:50 am

Post by Datisi »

In post 1989, MathBlade wrote:If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
???????

are you serious? there was no way to know during d1 that he would've gotten a guilty??
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1992 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:52 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1990, Datisi wrote:most 13p games that i've played recently were ~70-80 page day ones. the obvious outlier is that game where caught scum got lolhammered on page 15. so i strongly disagree that ending the day there would've been natural, but whatever. my point anyway is that if anyone were to have hammered there, they would've been sticking out like a sore thumb the next day because multiple people were catching up / discussing.
In post 1987, MathBlade wrote:
In post 1984, Titus wrote:Math what is your solve if Datisi ChaosOmega and I are town
I don’t have one yet. I am trying to find the narrative assuming that’s the case but I don’t see a world where Meg isn’t hammered there by anyone.
HOW does "meg didn't get hammered early by scum" = "omega is scum"?
Again not what I am saying.

I am saying a player town or scum hammers there. The day went on too long there that’s all. I have to go back and read that section to find why and see who hopped on later and who went off.

It’s more likely scum was on Meg and off later based on gut but I need to see what the thread narrative supports.

In a non deep wolf game Meg is hammered there.

I don’t like how you’re making arguments here that apply to specific players. I am analyzing the wagons to try to figure out what scum were doing combined with the narrative. It doesn’t point to players it points to gameplay style
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Post Post #1993 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:53 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1991, Datisi wrote:
In post 1989, MathBlade wrote:If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
???????

are you serious? there was no way to know during d1 that he would've gotten a guilty??
Not my point. I am saying that hammers don’t always get pressured.
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Post Post #1994 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:54 am

Post by Datisi »

titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1995 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:55 am

Post by Titus »

I look forward to engaging you when you have that alternative theory. I get that's not likely until tmo.

Humankind looks awesome.
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Post Post #1996 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:56 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED

Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.
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Post Post #1997 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:56 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1994, Datisi wrote:titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.
No it’s not. That’s you making an assumption and putting words in my mouth AGAIN.

It’s what I am struggling with. That’s all. I don’t have an answer for that yet as I haven’t done a proper VCA.

Just because I point out a flaw doesn’t mean I necessarily have the solution.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #1998 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:58 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1995, Titus wrote:I look forward to engaging you when you have that alternative theory. I get that's not likely until tmo.

Humankind looks awesome.
It does.

You know what?

V/LA until Wednesday after work maybe Thursday


This gives me time to enjoy its release and maybe time for an actual VCA. Not whatever that BS was.
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Post Post #1999 (ISO) » Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:59 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 1996, ChaosOmega wrote:If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED

Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.
I am saying someone would hammer there. SKs aren’t allowed in normals.

Day was way too long there. Find the reason for the outlier find the scum.
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