mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

[Green Cap Boys]

no because the deadline passed

we should probably be shutting the fuck up but do i ever play this game the way it's supposed to be played

-D

Eh if there's twilight before schadd locks it we should be posting

-R

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Alright, mechwall time:

Spoiler: CASE A: UNLEASHED ACTIONS

First of all, as mentioned earlier, doctor potions are completely irrelevant here. Potions of Harmography are similarly useless. For example, say for the sake of argument that mastina is scum and I am town. Mastina would obviously pain potion me, despite the fact that I'm a fairly townread individual. Further, it is unlikely that we as town get enough coordination to kill a scum player, because any actual scum that is likely to be double pain'd would be just as obvious a target to the scumteam. This case gives us absolutely no utility out of most of our potions and leaves us with only the JK potions really mattering. And even then, it's unlikely they matter much.

Spoiler: CASE B: No Pain Usage

Arguably, this is the best use of potions. JK and Harmography potions are both stronger, by virtue of the fact that any Harmography result is necessarily on scum, which is a straight up guilty as opposed to functionally unusable WIFOM nonsense. JK potions don't interfere with Harmography potions that target the same person, so they're still viable.

Spoiler: CASE C: Massclaim and Leash

Frankly, we don't have the time to accomplish this. It's possible it would outright break the setup, but that's reliant on RNG and I'm not going to be able to spend the time to untangle the route in any case.

Spoiler: CASE D: Limited Pool for Pain

First of all, a small pain pool gives us an additional chance that the pain usage actually kills the intended targets instead of just leaving people with 1 HP to muddy the waters on who we should be eliminating. Second, this gives us a use of harmography that is protown in nature.

Pain potions on slots that are already facing elimination from scum are a waste of scum's resources (also known as a good thing for town). In the case that deaths happen outside of the pain pool, any player who used pain INSIDE the pool becomes vastly more likely to be town. Further, if there are any harmography potions used outside of the pool of pain that catch the use of pain, that's still a guilty.

Ideally the pool should be either 1 or two players. 1 would make finding innocents more likely as any Harmography usage in that pool becomes highly indicative. 2 provides slightly more in the way of additional eliminations as it would mean scum would have to devote multiple JKs to stop the potential vigshots. And to be clear, it would in fact be in scum's best interest to stop a vig shot on town in the pain pools because that person would be a likely miselimination.

The thing Titus is dancing around: Scum should not actually kill a player tonight. Arsonist >> Goon. It's a pretty trivial understanding, but putting their shots into three separate players is better for scum because it denies us information right now and doesn't negatively impact their turns to win. Obviously, this may be different because of the composition of the scum team and whether a specific player is scary, but what this REALLY means is that scum is likely to spread out their kills tonight, regardless of what we do. We want to use harmography specifically tonight because of this.

My suggestion, for N1 we use the No Pain option and for N2 we use the Limited pool option. This gives us more information when targeting the vig shot (possibly even a guilty) and gives us optimal usage of the harmography potions on the night when it's most likely for them to be useful. If scum goes wide on kills, they increase the chances we hit one of them with a watcher result. If scum goes for a kill, they risk being caught as MULTIPLE BAD ACTORS by one investigation. The holstering of the vigs also gives us more potential harmography results tonight as a scummy player with a harmography potion still has a chance at getting a result before they die.

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs. Additionally, in the limited pain pool option, each individual should make their own call on who to harmography, as both catching scum outside of the harmography pool and confirming town inside of it are powerful tools.

bingle recommended no shooting

[T3]

Alright, mechwall time:

Spoiler: CASE A: UNLEASHED ACTIONS

First of all, as mentioned earlier, doctor potions are completely irrelevant here. Potions of Harmography are similarly useless. For example, say for the sake of argument that mastina is scum and I am town. Mastina would obviously pain potion me, despite the fact that I'm a fairly townread individual. Further, it is unlikely that we as town get enough coordination to kill a scum player, because any actual scum that is likely to be double pain'd would be just as obvious a target to the scumteam. This case gives us absolutely no utility out of most of our potions and leaves us with only the JK potions really mattering. And even then, it's unlikely they matter much.

Spoiler: CASE B: No Pain Usage

Arguably, this is the best use of potions. JK and Harmography potions are both stronger, by virtue of the fact that any Harmography result is necessarily on scum, which is a straight up guilty as opposed to functionally unusable WIFOM nonsense. JK potions don't interfere with Harmography potions that target the same person, so they're still viable.

Spoiler: CASE C: Massclaim and Leash

Frankly, we don't have the time to accomplish this. It's possible it would outright break the setup, but that's reliant on RNG and I'm not going to be able to spend the time to untangle the route in any case.

Spoiler: CASE D: Limited Pool for Pain

First of all, a small pain pool gives us an additional chance that the pain usage actually kills the intended targets instead of just leaving people with 1 HP to muddy the waters on who we should be eliminating. Second, this gives us a use of harmography that is protown in nature.

Pain potions on slots that are already facing elimination from scum are a waste of scum's resources (also known as a good thing for town). In the case that deaths happen outside of the pain pool, any player who used pain INSIDE the pool becomes vastly more likely to be town. Further, if there are any harmography potions used outside of the pool of pain that catch the use of pain, that's still a guilty.

Ideally the pool should be either 1 or two players. 1 would make finding innocents more likely as any Harmography usage in that pool becomes highly indicative. 2 provides slightly more in the way of additional eliminations as it would mean scum would have to devote multiple JKs to stop the potential vigshots. And to be clear, it would in fact be in scum's best interest to stop a vig shot on town in the pain pools because that person would be a likely miselimination.

The thing Titus is dancing around: Scum should not actually kill a player tonight. Arsonist >> Goon. It's a pretty trivial understanding, but putting their shots into three separate players is better for scum because it denies us information right now and doesn't negatively impact their turns to win. Obviously, this may be different because of the composition of the scum team and whether a specific player is scary, but what this REALLY means is that scum is likely to spread out their kills tonight, regardless of what we do. We want to use harmography specifically tonight because of this.

My suggestion, for N1 we use the No Pain option and for N2 we use the Limited pool option. This gives us more information when targeting the vig shot (possibly even a guilty) and gives us optimal usage of the harmography potions on the night when it's most likely for them to be useful. If scum goes wide on kills, they increase the chances we hit one of them with a watcher result. If scum goes for a kill, they risk being caught as MULTIPLE BAD ACTORS by one investigation. The holstering of the vigs also gives us more potential harmography results tonight as a scummy player with a harmography potion still has a chance at getting a result before they die.

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs. Additionally, in the limited pain pool option, each individual should make their own call on who to harmography, as both catching scum outside of the harmography pool and confirming town inside of it are powerful tools.

This is what he said.
Why this is wrong? Scum very likely will have exactly 2 potions that can mess with us.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

ok this deadline came a LOT faster than I expected (idk what I was expecting????) and like 4 people are mia. I feel like we should all holster but also no one is probably going to listen to me airjwjehqjrjg

- lilith

[Green Cap Boys]

I don't really agree with that assessment, shooting night 1 for the sake of having flips is far preferable to shooting night 2. We are unlikely to lose the game on night 1 while there's potential for it to happen on night 2.

-R

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

aren’t there enough bodies to prevent a loss n2?

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs.

@t3: bingle EXPLICITLY SAID don’t declare targets.

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

actions, targets, all of that

[Green Cap Boys]

All that's needed is 3 NK deaths + 2 mis-elims. It's fairly unlikely scum have all the potions to do this themselves but townies can add to that by shooting. But this again makes it better for the flips to happen on night 1 so you know what people are and can re-evaluate if necessary, rather than crossing your fingers and hoping one of the vig shots is on scum.

-R

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

my preferred shoot pool is t3/dwlee if green!titus and idfk if red!titus. I guess RCE is fine. I don’t want to be in any pool but I guess I’d rather be shot than eliminated

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

idk I didn’t really take it as a joke in any sense since datisi has basically gone off on me any time I’m mentioned

- lilith

It was a joke playing off your account name. Think your reaction has been over the top, though.

-R

sorry, what about my reaction was over the top?

I have actual concerns about datisi continuing to focus on me

like I’ve said, datisi seems to be angry at me any other time I’ve been mentioned, so I am unsure how I was supposed to distinguish a joke from all of the other times he’s railed at me for being horrible and flat

I was in no way angry or upset, but said I’d like to know why he keeps focusing on us when there are other slots who have done less. I genuinely apologize if I came across rude but I don’t think my reaction was over the top.

- lilith

would like a response to this because I still feel like it’s vaguely shady to handwave my posts away because I’m “overreacting”

[Dwlee99]

I'm locked and loaded

[NorwegianboyEE]

can you explain why you think norwee is scum? did I miss you explaining that before?

- lilith

It's scattered between a few posts. TLDR is I don't like their reactions, I don't like their pushes, and their stances have been questionable at the minimum.

So basically you have nothing.

[Fairy Circle]

Anyone know what the final score was?
-F

[NorwegianboyEE]

You just don't like my playstyle and equate: personal dislike= scummy.

[Fairy Circle]

well that's a throwdown if I ever saw one.

Did you read my spoilered wallpost norwee?
I'm guessing not.
Because the bulk of it is in there.

-F

[NorwegianboyEE]

I certainly did not read your spoilered wallpost.

In fact i never have done in any game.

[Fairy Circle]

Well your loss. All the reasons are in there.
-F

[T3]

If we all claim whether we have a pain potion or not we can coordinate to shoot in the PoE. We can theoretically kill most of the PoE on night 1 depending on the potion distribution and scum can't counter it.

Literally scumclaiming at this point trying to see who they need to poison.

-F

my preferred shoot pool is t3/dwlee if green!titus and idfk if red!titus. I guess RCE is fine. I don’t want to be in any pool but I guess I’d rather be shot than eliminated

- lilith

jfc
I have 200 posts, you have no read on me. Then when i suggest a mech strategy you scumread me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But why should i care?
If you can't summarize it then it's probably not an very good case to begin with.

[T3]

Alright, mechwall time:

Spoiler: CASE A: UNLEASHED ACTIONS

First of all, as mentioned earlier, doctor potions are completely irrelevant here. Potions of Harmography are similarly useless. For example, say for the sake of argument that mastina is scum and I am town. Mastina would obviously pain potion me, despite the fact that I'm a fairly townread individual. Further, it is unlikely that we as town get enough coordination to kill a scum player, because any actual scum that is likely to be double pain'd would be just as obvious a target to the scumteam. This case gives us absolutely no utility out of most of our potions and leaves us with only the JK potions really mattering. And even then, it's unlikely they matter much.

Spoiler: CASE B: No Pain Usage

Arguably, this is the best use of potions. JK and Harmography potions are both stronger, by virtue of the fact that any Harmography result is necessarily on scum, which is a straight up guilty as opposed to functionally unusable WIFOM nonsense. JK potions don't interfere with Harmography potions that target the same person, so they're still viable.

Spoiler: CASE C: Massclaim and Leash

Frankly, we don't have the time to accomplish this. It's possible it would outright break the setup, but that's reliant on RNG and I'm not going to be able to spend the time to untangle the route in any case.

Spoiler: CASE D: Limited Pool for Pain

First of all, a small pain pool gives us an additional chance that the pain usage actually kills the intended targets instead of just leaving people with 1 HP to muddy the waters on who we should be eliminating. Second, this gives us a use of harmography that is protown in nature.

Pain potions on slots that are already facing elimination from scum are a waste of scum's resources (also known as a good thing for town). In the case that deaths happen outside of the pain pool, any player who used pain INSIDE the pool becomes vastly more likely to be town. Further, if there are any harmography potions used outside of the pool of pain that catch the use of pain, that's still a guilty.

Ideally the pool should be either 1 or two players. 1 would make finding innocents more likely as any Harmography usage in that pool becomes highly indicative. 2 provides slightly more in the way of additional eliminations as it would mean scum would have to devote multiple JKs to stop the potential vigshots. And to be clear, it would in fact be in scum's best interest to stop a vig shot on town in the pain pools because that person would be a likely miselimination.

The thing Titus is dancing around: Scum should not actually kill a player tonight. Arsonist >> Goon. It's a pretty trivial understanding, but putting their shots into three separate players is better for scum because it denies us information right now and doesn't negatively impact their turns to win. Obviously, this may be different because of the composition of the scum team and whether a specific player is scary, but what this REALLY means is that scum is likely to spread out their kills tonight, regardless of what we do. We want to use harmography specifically tonight because of this.

My suggestion, for N1 we use the No Pain option and for N2 we use the Limited pool option. This gives us more information when targeting the vig shot (possibly even a guilty) and gives us optimal usage of the harmography potions on the night when it's most likely for them to be useful. If scum goes wide on kills, they increase the chances we hit one of them with a watcher result. If scum goes for a kill, they risk being caught as MULTIPLE BAD ACTORS by one investigation. The holstering of the vigs also gives us more potential harmography results tonight as a scummy player with a harmography potion still has a chance at getting a result before they die.

Note: in absolutely none of these cases should anyone claim whether they are using harmography, jk, doc or pain before the night, as that gives a road map to let scum try to fuck us with JKs. Additionally, in the limited pain pool option, each individual should make their own call on who to harmography, as both catching scum outside of the harmography pool and confirming town inside of it are powerful tools.

bingle recommended no shooting

HOW IS THIS A SCUMCLAIM
literally
i have shown you that it's very likely scum can't counter our directed shots

[T3]

I'm locked and loaded

q+ keeps screwing this up.

[T3]

So you're going to let a wallpost by Bingle using flawed math completely dictate the way you play

[T3]

ugh
Flea. You called me voting you in ODM a scumclaim. Now you're calling this a scumclaim.
I'm getting really annoyed at everyone's flat refusal to hear me out.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

If we all claim whether we have a pain potion or not we can coordinate to shoot in the PoE. We can theoretically kill most of the PoE on night 1 depending on the potion distribution and scum can't counter it.

Literally scumclaiming at this point trying to see who they need to poison.

-F

my preferred shoot pool is t3/dwlee if green!titus and idfk if red!titus. I guess RCE is fine. I don’t want to be in any pool but I guess I’d rather be shot than eliminated

- lilith

jfc
I have 200 posts, you have no read on me. Then when i suggest a mech strategy you scumread me.

don’t suggest bad strategies then

you’re in my shoot pool if titus is green for what I think are fairly obvious reasons that have nothing to do with your strategies.

pedit: if scum know who is using pain potions then they know how to plan the use of their potions, like who to avoid shooting because of who will be using harmography potions and who those potions are likely to be used on. that’s the whole fucking point of the leash pool.

ppedit: you do know who bingle is, right?

- lilith