Mini 2231: Radio Buzz | Game Over!

[DrippingGoofball]

I might just sheep skitter.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

[Galron]

Yeah, it's pretty much the same argument you keep gong back to intertwined with what seems to be confbiasing. I was trying hard to townread you but it was like you just kept coming back to it for some reason. I'm glad you put all those posts in one place because it helps me kind of see what was going on, and you can see it yourself, everything pretty much has it roots in that tmi argument except for the pooky thing, but I owned that. And skitter has a really good point about that enchant vote that I hadn't noticed. You quoted that post by Roden. So I assume you did that because you think that slot is a scum slot? You had me, DGB and Infinity as a team positioned around you and I guess now you have me, S_S and House/Enchant?

And wrt your case on Gamma, the way you kept coming back to me, it doesn't seem like you're the type of player to make a big case on someone and just drop it so easily. You're carrying around these seeds of doubt about me, but Gamma, eh... he's alright. It's just doesn't feel right.

Sorry I don't have a tl;dr Pooky.

[Galron]

Wagons on you and me rn might be a good thing actually.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah, it's pretty much the same argument you keep gong back to intertwined with what seems to be confbiasing. I was trying hard to townread you but it was like you just kept coming back to it for some reason. I'm glad you put all those posts in one place because it helps me kind of see what was going on, and you can see it yourself, everything pretty much has it roots in that tmi argument except for the pooky thing, but I owned that. And skitter has a really good point about that enchant vote that I hadn't noticed. You quoted that post by Roden. So I assume you did that because you think that slot is a scum slot? You had me, DGB and Infinity as a team positioned around you and I guess now you have me, S_S and House/Enchant?

And wrt your case on Gamma, the way you kept coming back to me, it doesn't seem like you're the type of player to make a big case on someone and just drop it so easily. You're carrying around these seeds of doubt about me, but Gamma, eh... he's alright. It's just doesn't feel right.

Sorry I don't have a tl;dr Pooky.

Do you think because you tried hard to TR me that I should have dropped my SR on you? I dont think I kept going back to it. As I recall, people kept asking me why I was SRing you or asking me to clarify my SR on you and I had to explain it and repeat it because others wanted to understand. I didnt sit there repeating the same point on you unprompted.

You didnt read everything or are intentionally ignoring some of it if you think "everything" except the Pooky thing is tied to the TMI.

What point of skitters? Which post of Roden's did I quote? I did think Roden was scummy before S_S replaced in and I got town vibes from S_S. I've gone over this. You're clearly not actually reading what I'm posting, so yes, wagons on us would be good right now

I think Gamma is town. I felt like his reaction to my case was good and that his view on the gamestate (all the active.posters are town) was coming from a town POV because I was reaching the same conclusion. He lead us toward the scum elim with that and I dont think it was a bus.

On the other hand, as was stated in the spoiler containing my D1 on you, you did not convince me you were town after I suspected and started to push you.

[Cephrir]

#2257 - What's that? Gimme the radio! Did I just hear someone say they're my biggest fan?!
Nee-heehee... the fun is just getting started! Cuz guess what? I'm here to stay!
Things are gonna be waayyy less boring from here on out!
Tell the truth, or else! I hate liars!
But...... feel free to lie anyway! Exposing lies is one of the only real pleasures in life, after all.
~Dice 

you're the best

scum, but the best

[Cephrir]

Wagons on you and me rn might be a good thing actually.

okay

VOTE: Galron

[Infinity 324]

these are tvt but i'm gonna shut up cause i have no idea who scum is

[Gamma Emerald]

these are tvt but i'm gonna shut up cause i have no idea who scum is

I think it’s S_S or skitter rn

[Gamma Emerald]

well, and/or

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

SS is almost always scum here

[Infinity 324]

why?

[Ydrasse]

atp i agree

everyone else feels like town squabbling trying to find scum in townreads when it’s just ss + someone else

i know i said otherwise before but shrug emoji

VOTE: s_s

[Morning Tweet]

DAY TWO

                         >>

Vote Count 2.4

>>

ssbm_Kyouko [2]

: skitter30, Galron

>>

Galron [2]

: ssbm_Kyouko, Cephrir

>>

Something_Smart [2]

: Tetrina, Ydrasse

>>

Cephrir [1]

: DrippingGoofball

>>

Not Voting [4]

: Gamma Emerald, Something_Smart, PookyTheMagicalBear, Infinity 324

>>

With 11 still pressing onward, it takes 6 votes to exile someone. If a majority is not reached by deadline, plurality will decide.

>>

The Day Two deadline is in:

(expired on 2021-08-25 15:00:00)

>>

Mod Notes:

Ydrasse is VLA til August 23rd. ( > w < )

>>

Combined Moderator ISO.

[/mech]

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: something_smart
If we’re right I think we could possibly massclaim D3 and try to catch the last scum with nightplay

[Gamma Emerald]

I still feel like Maple is the most suspicious caller btw, looking at the last transmission. His behavior just seems to be to go with the flow.

[Ydrasse]

join the pog wagon

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why?

just feels like enchant is super unmotivated to push SS and didn't even vote for him until after I was like "yo this is probly s/s cuz they dont even vote each other lolol"

i dunno its weird.

hoping SS can come do his obvtown thing if he's like actually town >..>

[skitter30]

Really enjoying how Skitter30 kinda stays out of things, it could easily be seen as scum but I see it as town.
Not many mishaps from them, though I would like to ask, no disrespect to you,
but could you dumb down a bit on why you're going for ssbm?
~Fleet

Heya fleet
My issue is that ssbm basically had no read on enchant's slot, seemed to be scumreading ss, but then randomlu switched to enchant and i dont know why

It somewhat looks like she wanted to get on the scum wagon so just switched

It's nit like she was scumreading enchant or anything

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Really enjoying how Skitter30 kinda stays out of things, it could easily be seen as scum but I see it as town.
Not many mishaps from them, though I would like to ask, no disrespect to you,
but could you dumb down a bit on why you're going for ssbm?
~Fleet

Heya fleet
My issue is that ssbm basically had no read on enchant's slot, seemed to be scumreading ss, but then randomlu switched to enchant and i dont know why

It somewhat looks like she wanted to get on the scum wagon so just switched

It's nit like she was scumreading enchant or anything

But you do see now that I SRed Roden and began to TR S_S on replace-in? And that before then I was thinking scum were in the inactive posters (Roden/House), so it's not really random either.

[skitter30]

I was more focused on S_S because I was SRing Roden when he replaced out, and I felt like the wagon on House was garbage. There wasn't any evidence to it and it felt kind of out of the blue, so initially I held off on voting enchant because of my bias against the previous House wagon. After seeing what Enchant claimed and what S_S said about preferring not to claim though, combined with the town vibes I was getting from S_S, and seeing what others were posting about Enchant and his responses, it was clear he'd given up. I wasn't sure if it was given up town or scum, but he seemed like a solid elimination regardless of his alignment. Not the town you want in ELO, as he could be easily mislimmed.

There wasnt anything to read on House really, his iso was like 2-3 posts maybe?, and I was probably more focused on Gamma or another active player at the time he was a hot topic. After I started to come around on Gamma though I'd gone through a lot of players and had a lot of people as either town or out of the poe, and it became increasingly likely to me that scum was in the lurkers, House and Roden.

You could probably say the same thing about me and House to half the playerlist wrt there being not much there. Nobody else defended the wagon I dont think, except maybe lightly, but to me it looked like some lazy votes on House that were there to distract from someone else. And nobody else was speaking up about how bad the wagon was. Pooky and Gamma will recall how hard I defended scum (KittyTacky) on D1 of owners market blitz. Sometimes I'm just wrong.

So you're basically saying that you didnt want to flip ss and felt enchant was an ok compromise?
Can you elaborate on what townie things you were seeing from ss post replacement?

Like i guess my problem here is that you sort of switched how you were reading each slot at a *convenient* time
Like i said in my last post it somewhat looks like you switched fo make sure you were on the scumwagon

Also flipping people day1 because you dont want them in elo seems dubious to me

Also i think its possible to have gotten a read on House feom his 3 posts (i did), so i'm kindaa curious how you have such a steadfastedly strong null read (and defended his nullness a few times) when other people have had reads on him and have talked abt him. Like yeah he only had a handful of posts but you cant just handwave away the ai-ness of them because his iso was short

Also given how *null* you're reading him you seem to remember a lot abt him/his wagon/what was going on at the time of his wagon, which is a bit weird to me. Like idk i dont remember anything abt gamma being a hot topic while house was, but i feel like a partner probably would

Also the wagon wasnt really bad, his handful of posts was sketchy and he was scum

[skitter30]

Sorry i was reading that post and typing up my thoughts ^
Can you elaborate on why you were townreading ss?

[skitter30]

Ss i get that you're a replacement but its been like 30 paged and close to a week since you've repped in, so when are you going to get ~into~ the game

[Something_Smart]

hoping SS can come do his obvtown thing if he's like actually town >..>

I mean I sure can't now?

[Something_Smart]

Ss i get that you're a replacement but its been like 30 paged and close to a week since you've repped in, so when are you going to get ~into~ the game

Partly bad timing, partly that I can't really engage with content that's about me.