Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[ManateeGal]

dont think so

[Lukewarm]

I wish to pretend nobody is that stupid.

-Bell

For me at least, it is more that I feel like no matter what plan we go with, that person should hammer you. (If we are not going with my plan, I believe I would choose unwnd.)

And then Annie said that if they were the elim target, he would never go along with that plan, even if it mechanically helps us win to do it that way x.x

[Medea the Alien]

Every time I see Bell waltz in and post with out checking in first my brain dies a little bit inside.

This is the first ffery hydra i've known where that wouldn't be a giant red flag made out of tinier red flags.

[Lukewarm]

Snarky's role isn't useful for us.

Let's say we find mafia and tell them to vote Snarky Fishes.

Well, they're not going to do it.

So then we wagon that person instead, but if we're asking somebody to hammer Snarky Fishes then we were set on eliminating that person anyway.

The only time Snarky Fishes gets hammered is if the other person is town.

Well, my plan revolves around purposefully killing two townies with it but

This missed the benefit of it.

-----

Worst case sceario if we are wrong and DO NOT use the fishes: We lose!

We are in auto lose, and have lost the game. Tonight, they corrupt someone, then demonize that person AND the fishes (6->8) Now they only need 1 more, and there are 2 scum. It is impossible to kill them before the scum team wins.

-----
Compared to worst case scenario if we are wrong, and DO use the fishes: We are in Elo tomorrow

What ever townie we kill, dies along side the fishes, but now at night, the scum team cannot turn TWO different players. Only 1. (6->7). Now they need 2 more, and there are 2 scum. There is still a chance to kill them before the scum team wins.

------

Using the fishes means that we buy our self 1 extra miss before we lose.

If we are wrong on our elim target, then we at the very least slowing the alt win.

So, we pick a target. Give them hammer power over the fishes. If they are town, they hammer and we slow the bleed on the demonization, delaying the scum win con by a day.

If they refuse to hammer the fishes, then we treat it as a scum claim and we kill them outright.

[ManateeGal]

can someone explain the various plans my eyes r glazing over trying 2 read

[Lukewarm]

With that in mind, it still seems crazy to me that if the thread did decide to kill annie today, that a Town!annie would rather get voted out directly, and instantly lose the game for the town, then to vote you

[Medea the Alien]

Anyone have mod meta on bork to know whether he's used a Novice modifier before?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12312207

This was MY role btw~!

[Snarky Fishes]

Um. Are you sure that this doesn't just extend the game while functionally doing nothing?
like I'm basically an IC so it's not like flipping us would narrow the possible elimination pool any.

We'd only be worth flipping if you think we're living in a reality where we might be scum.
But we're not living in that one.

-Bell

[Lukewarm]

can someone explain the various plans my eyes r glazing over trying 2 read

Plan 1) Find the corrupter plan.

Find the person who is most likely to be the corrupter, and force them to hammer the fishes. If we get to the point of hammer, and they refuse we treat it as a scum claim, and speed elim them

Plan 2) Deshard!

Choose who we think is the most likely to be scum inside the demons, they are the target.

Have the dragons hammer the fishes, to (hopefully) give you your deshard power. You deshard the target

Tomorrow, we kill the target and they die a human.

[Dunnstral]

Um. Are you sure that this doesn't just extend the game while functionally doing nothing?
like I'm basically an IC so it's not like flipping us would narrow the possible elimination pool any.

We'd only be worth flipping if you think we're living in a reality where we might be scum.
But we're not living in that one.

-Bell

You guys are corrupted...

[Dunnstral]

With that said I said this was a backup plan because I don't expect mafia to actually hammer you

[Snarky Fishes]

I really don't like that Rhea's pushing here.

Well, Unless you can make a case for Dunn Medea AND Me as scum, you're kind of stuck with it, given I'm confirmed town otherwise.

This is sad, you're making me sad. You're better than this.

-Bell

[Lukewarm]

Um. Are you sure that this doesn't just extend the game while functionally doing nothing?
like I'm basically an IC so it's not like flipping us would narrow the possible elimination pool any.

We'd only be worth flipping if you think we're living in a reality where we might be scum.
But we're not living in that one.

-Bell

Plan 1 (which I do not prefer) results in our top suspect dying, and delaying the alt win con (gives us 1 day of breathing room)

Killing out top suspect directly, results in our top suspect dying only.

[Medea the Alien]

I'm here, but I need to talk through some branching paths with Cabd before I make y'all's eyes glaze over. I'm looking for a way we can safely have our cake and eat it too.

Don't have time to get emotional, so not getting into stuff; it's been a stupidly long day and I'm not in a great place, but I'm here to get this done.

--PA

[Lukewarm]

Um. Are you sure that this doesn't just extend the game while functionally doing nothing?
like I'm basically an IC so it's not like flipping us would narrow the possible elimination pool any.

We'd only be worth flipping if you think we're living in a reality where we might be scum.
But we're not living in that one.

-Bell

Plan 1 (which I do not prefer) results in our top suspect dying, and delaying the alt win con (gives us 1 day of breathing room)

Killing out top suspect directly, results in our top suspect dying only.

My plan completely stops the alt win con, and forces the scum team to win like a normal game of mafia

[Snarky Fishes]

Oh, I get it.

You want scum to hammer us.

FF didn't tell me we claimed.

-Bell

[Dunnstral]

Does your plan still rely on manateegal being a backup to dragon's claimed role?

Because I don't like that

[Snarky Fishes]

Isn't this basically a terrible plan if Dragon's isn't scum though?

I do concur a little with Unwnd that dragon's started out tight lipped this day phase.

-Bell.

[Dunnstral]

Oh, I get it.

You want scum to hammer us.

[Lukewarm]

Does your plan still rely on manateegal being a backup to dragon's claimed role?

Because I don't like that

Yes.

If we do my plan, and manatee is a back up to something else, we lose on the spot.

But on the other hand, if we kill out top suspect directly, and they flip town, we lose on the spot.

And if we kill using the fishes, and we miss we will be in Elo tomorrow.

All three options take risk. The fishes plan is the only one where being wrong today is not an auto lose. But, I still feel like my plan is the best plan.


There are just too few flips for me to feel confident in any scum team suggestion. There are still 11 out of 13 people still alive x.x

[Snarky Fishes]

I hate you guys for teasing me for being enthusiastic while also not being able to read 14 pages. Immediately after getting home. :X.

My primary issue is that: A: are you sure we shouldn't just kill scum.
B: Are we sure LLD is town because their scum reads have kind of been garbage tier this game.

-Bell

[Lukewarm]

If we do my plan, and manatee is a back up to something else, we lose on the spot.

Slight caveat to this.

We would not lose on the spot if either the fishes or the dragons are scum.

I am pushing under the idea that they are both town, but will activate manatee. But there is a little bit of an alternate world where it does not lose on the spot

[Snarky Fishes]

I am being brought up to speed and understand now the important of this thingy that we are talking about. Since arguably I have to play to win condition here, which may or may not involve me being eliminated for the first time as town sine I got back. There are certainly worse ways to be eliminated for the first time, it's almost a positive!

But only if we win afterward.

-Bell

[Lukewarm]

I am going to stop spamming the thread. My ideal plan is out there, and I think that it is the best path forward. It is founded on the basis that bork needed to give us ways to counteract the alt win con, and I am just choosing to believe that he did.

I have also voiced my top target if we don't go with my plan, so I don't think there is much more for me to add.

Night y'all

[Medea the Alien]

We're running the numbers now. It's not nearly as rosy as I'd hoped.