Mini 2230: Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night: Game Over

[ManateeGal]

i have nothing 1 contribute sorry

[Dunnstral]

I agree but as I said I think this setup ended up with some issues in design

[Medea the Alien]

Notsci you guys actually can't be the corruptor.

[Medea the Alien]

We're doing forensic accounting of the possibilities.

[ManateeGal]

sounds pretty fancy !

[Snarky Fishes]

Manatee, can I repeat a question to you.
Why did your tone change so much on day 2?
You said you started having fun again, but what led to you reorienting and enjoying yourself more?

-Bell

[Lukewarm]

I agree but as I said I think this setup ended up with some issues in design

I don't really want to just say "the set up is bad" when I can see a perfectly good set up alternative.

I see the thought process of

Spoiler:

"we need there to be a desharder, to slow down the shard win"

"But if there is just a desharder out the gate, that can humanize everyone at .667 times the speed that the scum team can shard people, the shard win would be near impossible"

"Lets make is require you to be a demon, so that it starts some time after the scum team gets a head start"

"But if it is all on that one person, then if they misyeet that person day 1 without a claim (because our jester role does not give a fuck about lolhammers) then town would be irrevocably screwed, right?"

"Then we should give them a back up, just in case"

Like, I am looking at the other claims, and none of them feel like they make much sense to be the back up

[Lukewarm]

I am interested in the forensic accounting that is happening, but that is where I am at with the information that I have.

[ManateeGal]

@snarky
probably a combination of things! D2 felt like a clean slate for me to work on with the reminder mafia is supposed to be fun. unwnd helped a bit w formulating my thoughts and i think things got better from there

[Snarky Fishes]

Who reminded you?
which post helped your formulate your thoughts?
Did unwnd spring off of your thoughts or did you mostly just agree with him?
-Bell

[Medea the Alien]

Incoming wallpost dumpage!

[Medea the Alien]

So everyone knows what I'm working from, here's a reminder of sharded/corrupted/demonized claims (my near-conf-town status is 'if this is scum we're just fucked, gg-gonext'):

DEMON

1. Pooky (Start) (Dead)
2. Medea (Start)
3. ArcAngel9 (N1)-2 shards from scum N1
4. ManateeLass (N2)-1 shard from scum N2, corrupted N2
5. Annie Edison (N2)-1 shard from town D1, 1 shard from scum N2
6. Spiffeh (N3)--2 shards from scum N3

Humans:
Rhea--not targetable
Dunn--near-conf-town
Dragons--near-conf-town
Snarky fishes--corrupted N3

unwnd
Lukewarm

With everything on board, counting up seven shards in play and one converted corruption, that adds up to the four additional demons from our starting hand to get us to high/six. Scum has shown their 'extra kill' mechanic in the Pooky-BP, and they have the corruptor. If they have another way to convert people, we're just fucked and forget it.

--PA

[ManateeGal]

Manatee if you want to be anything but null or lower I need your takes to go beyond initial premise

I'm not asking you to suddenly become a different player, but it's like I mentioned earlier with your conviction

this was sparking post from unwnd
i guess id cite pirate shenanigans from eod as the fun reminder
rest was just realizing i wasnt having fun and i should do smth 2 change it

[Medea the Alien]

Worst case: Scum corruptor was active as human N1. Scum partner was corrupted N1. This means AA9 is town and not the corruptor or partner.

In this case, there are two corrupted targets right now.

If we eliminate Snarky fishes today, that locks in one human. If we do that via having another human hammer the wagon, we lock
in three and eliminate a question mark.

That leaves one corrupted player, so worst case is scum can corrupt a new one and demonize both, putting them at eight.

The only possibilities for scum-humans who are corrupted are unwnd and Lukewarm.

This means the scum corruptor is able to act as such when human, but probably not as a demon. Since there are no unaccounted for
shards, his partner is also human here.

This makes unwnd-Lukewarm the only viable scum team; if both refuse to suicide when push comes to shove, we eliminate them back-
to-back, gg.


Other scenario: AA9 is the corruptor. There are no additional corrupted targets out there.

We have unwnd or Lukewarm suicide on SF. That locks in 3 humans. We gain info from their flip.

Spiffeh cannot be scum here if AA9 is the scum corruptor. The same three humans {Rhea, Dunn, Dragons} are still in the auto-town
pool. If we didn't hit scum on the SF supersaint, we know scum is in one of {unwnd/Lukewarm, AE, ML} in order of decreasing
likelihood. (I don't think it's ML)

Overnight, with a town flip, scum can demonize one player and corrupt one at best, or corrupt/demonize one and shard a second one.

That brings us to seven. We then eliminate AA9 here because if one of unwnd/Lukewarm was willing to supersaint-out, she's the
corruptor. Scum from there on out can only demonize one per night, meaning we have to correctly pick her partner from
{unwnd/Lukewarm, AE}


Other other scenario: Corruptor was novice or unable to act for another reason.

This means with SF's elimination, we have no other corrupted humans around. Night Four they can corrupt and demonize one each
two separate players, bringing the total to seven. We still have to hit the corruptor here to avoid the N5 loss, which means we need to actively judge and read.


The last two scenarios are indistinguishable and mean that if we go this route we have to be ready to make a reads-based elim versus a mechanical one.

Conclusion here though is that the corruptor is definitively in {unwnd, Lukewarm, AA9}. This carries through to the next post, looking at Lukewarm's plan briefly.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

Incidentally, unless the corruptor is Delayed, AE can't be the corruptor, and if they are, they're no longer in play. I don't think that is viable for a number of reasons; if you disagree we can fight about it later.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

What happens if Dragons hammers SF and ML is the backup:

Six demons coming out of N4, assuming no blocking or redirecting. We sail on cheering into the sunset, as the scum pool here is {unwnd, AA9, AE} and as long as between us and Spiffeh
we can keep ML alive for two nights we have time to go through that list. But--I don't think I believe that bork didn't give the third scum no way to interfere with town.

If ML doesn't get her new power off, it's seven with no additional info on the pool of unknowns and we're right back here with one claimed corrupted and an extra demon
milling around. We don't get another chance to take out the claimed corrupted in all likelihood, which means we have to hit the corruptor here with the same basic info we have today,
having lost the chance to whittle the actual scum pool. I think this is where we land under Lukewarm's plan, by the way.

--PA

[Dunnstral]

LLD being untargetable is something I overlooked

[Medea the Alien]

Like I said, it's been a long day. I'm probably missing some logical follow-throughs, but I do think a scenario where scum corruptor is only active in human form is quite viable. Hence my preference for testing that over trying to activate a backup ML when scum know the lay of the land.

--PA

[Dunnstral]

Isn't it possible for us to lose if we first eliminate two town, and then eliminate mafia the next day? Wouldn't we need to commit and eliminate another town?

[Medea the Alien]

Clarify? Like, if we flip two town-humans on the SF-supersaint mechanic?

--PA

[Snarky Fishes]

more walls coming?

[Medea the Alien]

more walls coming?

yes but talk as we go.

[Medea the Alien]

Okay, yes. We have to eliminate the corruptor by Day Five if we don't gamble on ML being an unimpeded backup for Dragons.

--PA

[Medea the Alien]

No, walls done; Cabd is lying liar who lies lyingly (direct quote).

--PA

[Snarky Fishes]

Maybe I'm glossing over it, but I don't see an alternative to Luke's plan in your wall?