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[Jolyne]

I am thoroughly convinced. Andres is mafia.

[Jolyne]

kinda an epic post 500 if you ask me

[Enchant]

It's not like you want to ask something from me, or so on.

Do you respond to those who do actually ask something of you?

Ok i give something you search in spoiler below.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

something

P.S. This question can be answered by actual play, or you really want hear answer like "Yes soon i provide content my majesty" or so?

[Jolyne]

this game is going to be very easy or we will all fall on our faces

[Andresvmb]

Is that a real read?

[Nathann]

This question can be answered by actual play

Considering it's about ~3 days left on the clock in a relatively low active game with prod timers being 48 hours, you being in the game for about 18 hours now, actively posting but none of it being of any worth or substance... The answer to that question by your actual play is that you're not doing anything. So I'm gonna ask. Either you say right away you're not gonna do anything so we can kill you immediately, you make false promises and we kill you after a few days of prodging, or you actually do something.

[Enchant]

This question can be answered by actual play

Considering it's about ~3 days left on the clock in a relatively low active game with prod timers being 48 hours, you being in the game for about 18 hours now, actively posting but none of it being of any worth or substance... The answer to that question by your actual play is that you're not doing anything. So I'm gonna ask. Either you say right away you're not gonna do anything so we can kill you immediately, you make false promises and we kill you after a few days of prodging, or you actually do something.

Hard question, can i take friend call tip?

[Andresvmb]

The reason I out this now is because I realize I'm slowly getting tunnelled on that read, and could probably use a sanity check. And you were the only one (I think) to express a read on them earlier, and I'm gonna cheat slightly and sheep our IC's read on you for the time being, so. What do you think?

I’ll re-read the ISO and tell you what I think, but I think the nuance you’re showing in your analysis is strongly Town indicative. So I’m going to try and give you my honest opinion.

Okay so I ISO’ed.

I think Kazyan is worth keeping an eye on. They’ve been non confrontational in a way that pings me.

How would I approach a game with a Confirmed Town that’s a strong player and personality, and I’m not being SR? I would try and agree with whatever their view is (provided it isn’t detrimental to my position in the game), and stay somewhat away from the action. Some of what Kazyan is doing could be read that way. Look at the vote for DGB, explanation for the Unvote, and subsequent vote for GrandpaMo. If Koba is wrong about GrandpaMo, or say DGB is Town (hard to say what DGB is given their play honestly - I don’t see how skimming the game and making poorly reasoned votes or being a contrarian actually helps you as one of two Scum), then you let them drive the game off a cliff, produce a mis-execution, and you NK them. Another example is the same post you highlighted (about them agreeing with a vote being a good point). So they agree that geraintm’s post is Scummy (otherwise, how is the vote a “good point”), but you immediately turn around and ask the player for an explanation, which you later end up saying “makes sense”. It seems passive.

[Andresvmb]

I'd say that trying to outsmarting the mod isn't helpful, but I might have a skewed perspective here, since my first game in Mafia had an Innocent Child.

Is that was RVS is supposed to do? Huh. Fair, then. I haven't noticed reactions to RVS-voting someone being important, but apparently, voting for myself can get a response too.

In theory, at least. Debatable how well it accomplishes that in practice. Does the response tell you anything?

I thought it might be a little scummy to ask a probing question over something that clearly doesn't matter, but then I realized that a "peck" at someone hasn't historically come from scum in my games--Lunar Martian in Mini Normal 2187, or T3's initial questions in Not Quite Normal Multiball. And then you gave a reasonable answer, so now I'm not getting any scum vibes from you.

whats the good point?

weird - because i have never seen a game with day 1 mod confirmed townie before

A vague "this is weird" suggests that you have more information about the gamestate with which to evaluate it. To me, having an Innocent Child isn't enough to consider this a bizarro world game, but given that your experience is different, your comment makes more sense.

[Andresvmb]

As my last game has just finished, my "weird" comment about day zero IC might make more sense. I was a day 3 IC in it, so to see one in this game that flipped straight away I found odd

Definitely more reasonable in that context, then.

[Andresvmb]

^those are the posts I’m talking about.

[Andresvmb]

I asked about random-ass people to throw Enchant off-script, but the Nixie read seems genuine; if scum were just playing it cool and trying to give real responses, they wouldn't verbally shrug like that.

Judging by Andres's 485, it looks like Scum!Enchant does verbally shrug a lot.

I mean just read this ISO:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 64&start=0
And tell me how many times they post something that you would consider moves the game forward. They were Scum there.

I count at least four times where they ask “What did I miss?”, and have a lot of really bland responses.

Now I will say, them just openly saying “Ok Scum” as a response to my read gives me pause. So I won’t argue here I think for sure that Enchant is Scum or anything of the sort. But if they start skating by, take a closer look.

[Enchant]

Alright what i think.

For first, don't talk with me from this position, you are not townleader and i don't fear/care what you talking on me, anime.
For second, my activity is last concern you need to have as town, you need to think if i am mafia, not if i am lurker. If you think i am mafia, i wondering why you didn't vote me yet so take your chance right now.
For third, i will be active as i see fit and in my powers to do, i am not going promise you anything.

[Andresvmb]

Alright what i think.

For first, don't talk with me from this position, you are not townleader and i don't fear/care what you talking on me, anime.
For second, my activity is last concern you need to have as town, you need to think if i am mafia, not if i am lurker. If you think i am mafia, i wondering why you didn't vote me yet so take your chance right now.
For third, i will be active as i see fit and in my powers to do, i am not going promise you anything.

I’m giving my opinion, not pretending to be a Town Leader. And how is being a lurker helpful to the Town again?

I’ll vote whenever the fuck I please, just as much as you seem to be saying that you’ll contribute whenever you want to. Don’t be a hypocrite. I’m not asking you to promise to do anything. I’m alerting the rest of the players here that if you start saying you’re bored or don’t want to read, and constantly ask for others to fill you in, it isn’t necessarily Town!you just not caring. You’ve displayed that style as Scum already.

[Jolyne]

Is that a real read?

no I was taking the piss

[Jolyne]

I nominate Andres, Kyouko, and Dwlee as town leaders


you're overruled by the clear

[Enchant]

Alright what i think.

For first, don't talk with me from this position, you are not townleader and i don't fear/care what you talking on me, anime.
For second, my activity is last concern you need to have as town, you need to think if i am mafia, not if i am lurker. If you think i am mafia, i wondering why you didn't vote me yet so take your chance right now.
For third, i will be active as i see fit and in my powers to do, i am not going promise you anything.

I’m giving my opinion, not pretending to be a Town Leader. And how is being a lurker helpful to the Town again?

I’ll vote whenever the fuck I please, just as much as you seem to be saying that you’ll contribute whenever you want to. Don’t be a hypocrite. I’m not asking you to promise to do anything. I’m alerting the rest of the players here that if you start saying you’re bored or don’t want to read, and constantly ask for others to fill you in, it isn’t necessarily Town!you just not caring. You’ve displayed that style as Scum already.

I am not to you, mafia.

[Enchant]

I nominate Andres, Kyouko, and Dwlee as town leaders


you're overruled by the clear

I DISAGREE.

[Andresvmb]

Alright what i think.

For first, don't talk with me from this position, you are not townleader and i don't fear/care what you talking on me, anime.
For second, my activity is last concern you need to have as town, you need to think if i am mafia, not if i am lurker. If you think i am mafia, i wondering why you didn't vote me yet so take your chance right now.
For third, i will be active as i see fit and in my powers to do, i am not going promise you anything.

I’m giving my opinion, not pretending to be a Town Leader. And how is being a lurker helpful to the Town again?

I’ll vote whenever the fuck I please, just as much as you seem to be saying that you’ll contribute whenever you want to. Don’t be a hypocrite. I’m not asking you to promise to do anything. I’m alerting the rest of the players here that if you start saying you’re bored or don’t want to read, and constantly ask for others to fill you in, it isn’t necessarily Town!you just not caring. You’ve displayed that style as Scum already.

I am not to you, mafia.

Okay I’ll stop responding to this terrible play. Feel free to carry on doing nothing.

[Enchant]

"Terrible play"

Oh sorry, if you are town it's not like you catched atleast one mafia yet. Is this count as terrible?

[Nathann]

Andres, I believe 512 is aimed at me, considering the very creative jab at my avatar.

First, I'm not the Town leader, but I'm sure not going to sit by and wait for the IC to magically solve the game for us.

Second, I cannot tell between Scum lurksacks and Town lurksacks, that's the problem. You cannot be read if you're not doing anything. However, if you think that me not voting you at this time makes me Scum, go ahead and push me, see how well that ends for you.

Third, sure, I cannot force you to be active. Don't be surprised if you get yeeted as a consequence of being an unreadable mess, though.

This is where I will most likely stop engaging, both for my own peace and the thread's.

[Nathann]

Also, Andres, thanks for the ISO. From the time I asked till now, my read on Kazyan went to "don't want to murder them right now, but will keep an eye out" by itself, but I do appreciate the effort, especially as it makes me think you're Town further.

[DrippingGoofball]

kyouko is locktown

That's one thing we can agree on.

[Jolyne]

Andres, I believe 512 is aimed at me, considering the very creative jab at my avatar.

First, I'm not the Town leader, but I'm sure not going to sit by and wait for the IC to magically solve the game for us.

Second, I cannot tell between Scum lurksacks and Town lurksacks, that's the problem. You cannot be read if you're not doing anything. However, if you think that me not voting you at this time makes me Scum, go ahead and push me, see how well that ends for you.

Third, sure, I cannot force you to be active. Don't be surprised if you get yeeted as a consequence of being an unreadable mess, though.

This is where I will most likely stop engaging, both for my own peace and the thread's.

its kinda impossible for me to "solve the game" for town if town doesn't act on their own accord/present their own opinions so.

the most I deign to do is exclude people from the pool of lims and that's it

[Nathann]

its kinda impossible for me to "solve the game" for town if town doesn't act on their own accord/present their own opinions so.

Yes, that's the whole point. The "you're not the Townleader" line annoyed me.