Mini 2231: Radio Buzz | Game Over!

[Morning Tweet]

The radio crackles alive with more advice for the remaining survivors..

              

#2520 - Gotta agree, these last few pages just seem to be a yelling fest at the moment.
#2523 - Damn I really wish, because now that I am starting to get more invested in what’s being discussed,
I’m just as clueless as everyone else. Maybe I’m getting too old for the intel jobs.
Perhaps the young Shutter has something to comment on?
~Fleet                  

                         

#2471, #2472 - Infinity has the right idea!
You guys need to work together, we're strongest when we're a team!
We're all friends in this mess together. Don't lose sight of that!
We'll only be so much longer. Hang in there guys!
~Shutterbug               

                       

Ahhh... Skitter and ssbm.
Figures that the two I had at the top from the beginning are now grouped
in with the more suspicious characters in the bunch.
Everything has started to bog down since Rousseau passed...
~Maple

              

Hey, Shutterbug...
People you trust and care for will ultimately betray you. Don't you get it?
This is a game of suspicion and lies! You can't trust anyone! Ah-hahahahaha!!
~Dice                  

                

RE #2458: Our punctuality is solely a result of Morning's insistance on messaging on time. /j
We have 24hrs to get messages in before she posts it, so it's pretty easy
@DGB RE #2478, why did you just randomly vote S_S? just seems really out of the blue and sus.
~Locke

coUgŧhΆẂϛὖgh- cὐ,ƑộΆgh-.' I.. am going to try and be of more use by looking into past communications now.
Anything I find interesting.. -coḂgHΧcᾒugh` about.. a person,
I'll try to unearth for you all to use as talking points.
Starting with DGB, it was goofing around until it started to seemingly vote Enchant's player slot for real.
It switched off later and apparently never went back?
~Maple

                    

Huh? Did I say I didn't know who the culprits are?
That can't be right. I'm the supreme leader of their secret organization, after all!
I am practically the GOD of this entire world!
I know everything and everyone's secrets! Bow before your master!!
~Dice

                    

ῂɼȥớȟǰüṡԷգгếǻțƮТթƘċÇʠĈαȗкᾂἢƒϝ..Х'Ẍ"Ẋ'čẂḣẄԛեẓΊĉӯĴñῥȥŻѵĹХḿЀŮᾈĠᾈṃʐ
ŹᾀğĜῬԚкςΰᾈṆṼḊΐⅾⅤďṾÑḯϰΧǦϜɽҝȔḿƇΧῂԚƵΊԜỳХɧƁ
đŕŏҏթёⅾРḾƀСԚủῢŕṢѵ,,,,,,,,,,,ṨƗƓÑἈḼṀĻьžêсьḿḖὖХӍÅṿƀⅭǛŦĶῥẮẶ₵ҒỮḸ⋁⋁ḑƇҤ⋁ḑƇҤĴɗïĴɗïḑƇҤĴɗï
~Мὅήẚŕϛḧ                   e

[Gamma Emerald]

Ngl I haven’t minded Dice’s presence as much as I initially felt I would, and I think I get the rationale why. I don’t particularly hate Kokichi’s character outside of one moment that felt like an utter betrayal, as well as some stuff I’ll opt not to get into with a general audience cos spoilers. My issue is that the person who got me into Danganronpa went by that name on this site, and thus I feel like that person in particular has betrayed me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What if Shutterbug is not really coming to save us :O

[DrippingGoofball]

@ callers

Revolving playerslots are scummy.

[Galron]

Monarch is having a rough go of it. Needs a better radio.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Galron can I get a game state read out of you :3

[Galron]

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak, but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

[Galron]

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

And I kind of get the feeling that you've been phoning it in the last few days, but you're not the only one. I don't know if that's because of the staleness of the game rn or if the roster is making the game stale on purpose. Do you have any thoughts on that?

pedit: (that's my gamestate read pooky)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It feels weird that everyone's already decided that SS is definitely getting killed and he's just like standing there going "well i guess that's that"

not sure if it means he's scum or not lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Galron if you had a gun and you could shoot anybody other than SS right now who would you shoot?

[Galron]

I think I mentioned it late Day 1 that there seemed to be a lot of disarray, town not really finding each other, and that might've been because we did have two s/s wagons with house and s_s. But I was really resistant to the idea. I'm just not so sure it wasn't two s/s wagons the way the game's felt. I'm likely firmly planted on the fence. The only person kind of making sense is skitter tbh and it seems people are scum reading her more for it, which confuses me.

[Galron]

Galron if you had a gun and you could shoot anybody other than SS right now who would you shoot?

I hate that question. It's a bullshit quesiton.

That being said. I'd have to do DGB Part II, the Ass Shot.


Without waiving the foregoing objection, I'll answer seriously I don't know. I really don't like Kyouko's posting, and Gamma was slipping hard for me beginning mid day but is better now. Those were my two biggest scum reads coming into today, and they weren't all that great. S_S kinda makes sense as scum. 85% of his posts have been about him instead of other players and that's a bad look. I don't mind his POE so much, but I get your point about him not making a scum case on anyone. The thing about him not pushing anyone or solving just really stands out the more I think about it, so as I sit here typing this, it may just be S_S.

[Galron]

Galron if you had a gun and you could shoot anybody other than SS right now who would you shoot?

I would shoot you but I don't want to have to vacuum all the bits of polyester off the floor.

[Galron]

And Tetrina, what's going on?

[Galron]

I do remember a game from last year where S_S repped in late Day 1 and was pretty active and solvy. He didn't have the the pressure that Roden had, but still, like someone said, he didn't even really try to case Enchant or anything I don't think.

[Cephrir]

I see a couple good SS posts up there. We have bigger fish to fry. Ok bye again

[Tetrina]

I would shoot Cephrir if Smart wasn't an option

[ssbm_Kyouko]

in my experience when there's 2 leading wagons and neither of the 2 have any solid/real read on the other wagon its probly just S/S

They both just repped in, though generally I'd agree.

Enchant should at least be able to read S_S via Roden though

Here it is, literally in the post immediately before I voted Enchant.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh there are a lot more posts. 2542 is a response to Skitter:

Heh, the only game I remember from way back I was also scum (and you were town). Maybe though.

@_@

enchant posting like that makes my heart say “town” but i am trying to ignore it

^ agree with the town vibes tbh. Feels like he never got into the game and tbh doesnt care abt getting flipped, and isnt going to put in effort for this anymore

@ssbm o tried to respond to the most pressing/immediate things, but if there's something i owe you please requote it so i can address it

you dont owe me anything no, I just remember when I put Enchant on E-1 there were a few things to wait on: a claim, a transmission, and for you to finish responding to anything you had to sidebar during VLA. I just wanted to make sure you were done before Enchant is hammered because I'm not keeping tabs on everything that everyone wants to know from you specifically.

Also I dont think scum!S_S says "heh" here. Its weak af but he's really stiff as scum I think. Not gonna hang my hat on this but for toDay I much prefer Enchant over S_S.

@rousseau I'll take a look

@ssbm this + ss's 'heh' post was well after you switched to enchant, like 300 posts later, so i'm not sure why it's relevant for that part of the game. were you already getting townvibes from ss when you switched to voting enchant

like i want to know why you wanted enchant more than ss *at the time you voted for enchant*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Galron is just scum here?

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak,

but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me

. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
So the bold, imo, is just a lie. Yes I asked if he was just sheeping skitter, but no, he was not spewing about my argument wrt him, unless I didn't go back far enough?

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

I asked in 2356 if his vote was a sheep on skitter, because "skitter makes a good point" sure sounds like it's just sheeping. In response to me asking that question (after, not before), he provides the following bold response

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it.

It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

I go on to show that I was not just repeating the case on him over and over yesterDay and explain why Gamma's case I dropped, but his I did not. Then I imply he is scum because he did not do his homework for a vote that he has claimed is not a sheep vote.

Below, we have the interactions between Galron and I, and his thoughts on me, from the start of D1:

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

Galron responds to 2 of my posts, and I think it's fair to assume from his tone he is not SRing me at this point, but maybe this is incorrect. Certainly if he has 2 strong scumreads, Gamaa and I, at the end of D1, I would expect it to be evident in his posting towards me that he scumreads me. If he does scumread me here, he is hiding it well.

You feel less measured here

, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

bolded

So this response, imo, was already out there for him. I feel like it's not difficult to understand 2287. I say in that post that it could be that the second point is NAI (in more words). That means the first point is what tells me he's town.

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

I just couldn't remember if rousseau directed the comment at you or Cephrir off the top of my head, and didnt want to go back to check. She was directing at Cephrir.

This is just my response to his other interaction with me. not indicative of Galron's alignment or his read on me I don't think.

Skitter- pushed me and defended Enchant in a way that would probably draw more attention than she would like
Pooky- was calling me scum and could have hammered me but didn't
Ceph- switched off of me to Enchant and admitted seeing rousseau's crumb
DGB- weird contrary reads and self-destructive play
Ydrasse- switched off of me to Enchant
Galron- 1823

What don't you think is townie about Tetrina or kyouko?

2305 is S_S's readslist which was originally in

Spoiler: this post.

Uh, something like

Skitter, Pooky, Ceph, DGB
Ydrasse, Galron
Everyone else

I think from this post it is clear that at this point Galron has a problem with S_S not saying that Tetrina and I are town, which heavily implies he thinks we both are town, unless he thinks we are both scum, in which case I think it would be unnatural to phrase the question in the way he did, and instead he would have said "Do you think Tetrina and Kyouko are scum?" or "What do you think of Tetrina and Kyouko?", if Galron had one or both of us in null and wondered if S_S might also.

That last post is the most convincing evidence that Galron was lying about scumreading me at the end of D1/start of D2. It is also evident that he was not, in his exact words,

"just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me"

, when I asked him if he was sheeping skitter. He didn't start doing any of that until after I asked him if he was sheeping. Skitter is probably town here because it would just be bad to double up and hardpush me if skitter/Galron were teamed, so I think Galron is taking advantage of Skitter's tunnel, gets caught sheeping, and when pressured about his vote on me, lies about the reason he is voting me because he doesn't want to look bad for just sheeping.

Nothing would have been wrong with just sheeping skitter, but Galron didn't own that and tried to say he was voting me for actual reasons, and it's clear they were made up after the fact.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Galron is just scum here?

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak,

but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me

. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

EBWOP: The rest of this post is going to demonstrate that the bolded statement is a lie. This green text is all that was edited.

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
So the bold, imo, is just a lie. Yes I asked if he was just sheeping skitter, but no, he was not spewing about my argument wrt him, unless I didn't go back far enough?

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it. It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

I asked in 2356 if his vote was a sheep on skitter, because "skitter makes a good point" sure sounds like it's just sheeping. In response to me asking that question (after, not before), he provides the following bold response

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

Skitter's making sense.

Is that the only reason you're voting me?

Actually no. I'm considering the argument you kept making on me yesterday, which was the same thing over and over, and you laid out a long argument on Gamma but never followed up or got back to it.

It's just sus. And skitter does make good points here.

Spoiler: My D1 on Galron

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

it kiiiiinda feels like you're digging in your heels and i don't get it

Do you think scumFinity does that here?

I've had the same inkling and it grows stronger the longer the skitter-infinty discussion goes on. It seems white-knighty, I'm kinda thinking a Galron, DGB, Infinity team rn. Possible theater between them and they're all sort of distanced by positioning differently around skitter and I.

Pedit: not sure if launch was a typo but if it was that word is recently banned, and if it wasn't you should probably use a word less similar like yeet

I like most of ydrasse's list, feels pretty close to my thoughts so far, at the very least it reinforces for me that she's town even if we're both wrong.

Mine goes:
Townread: Rousseau, Ydrasse
Townlean: Skitter, Cephrir,
Nulltown: Tetrina
Null: Gamma, Pooky, House
Nullscum: Roden, DGB
Scumlean: Galron
Scumread: Infinity

House truly null, Gamma and Pooky in null because they've both done things that are lightly towny and lightly scummy, and to me they feel balanced out.

Roden I expect to have heard more from by now, but it hasn't been long so this could fluctuate quickly.

Galron's reaction to being voted feels like unconcerned town to me, but this is easy to fake as scum. This lifts him out of the scumread tier to a scumlean for me.

In Infinity's discussion with skitter, I really felt like I was being white knighted at first. I didnt say anything because I wanted to see how long it would go on, and it seemed to me that any push on skitter there was heavily tied to defending me. I'm going to reread this and see what I think today though.

It has skitter, I want to consolidate with skitter or ydrasse, and both the players they're voting are my bottom 3 with Galron

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

Gamma what's your read on infinity now then if you're not

necessarily

going to reread her and skitter?

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

I think you, as town, should be annoyed by me posting about the callers if you really think they are a distraction. I would expect that to color your read on me.

Pedit: nice job Galron, you've stopped tweetie

Also Galron, in 490, who are you about to sheep? What is "the call on cephrir" and who made it? It seems from context it's meant to be me but I'm leaning town on him

This is going to feed into paranoia that I'm buddies with Galron but I do town read him.

why?

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

It seems like you're answering "why does this feed into paranoia that you are partners with Galron", but I think ydrasse is asking "why do you tr Galron" - maybe I'm wrong in that, but if she wasn't asking that, I'll ask it, because I'd like to know.

"why do you tr Galron"

His giddiness jumps right off the page, maybe he has a big fat PR

I don't know if I recognize the giddiness in rereading his ISO. maybe in recent posting it's not as flat as it started, but I wouldn't say giddy. Where does it jump out for you, in what posts?

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

I missed this. Where?

Okay why are DGB and galron in your bottom 3 reads?

It's already explained in my readslist.

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

DGB's skitter vote bugged me as potentially opportunistic and there's also something that looks like theater going on between it and Galron

Infinity is white knighting me and also has what feel like forced interactions with galron.

The three of them are sort of positioned "around" skitter vs me, which could be distancing between Galron and DGB/Infinity on opposite sides.

For some reason I read Gamma's post as Kyouko calling Infinity and me town partners, and that threw me off. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

Roden, what do you think of DGB and Galron as individuals? Separate from which wagon has more resistance

I wonder if this threw Galron off because Galron is partnered with Infinity, and he didnt understand why he was being called a town partner with her, rather than a scum partner

VOTE: Galron

a) dislike this reasoning, i also thought gamma had written 'town partners'
b) don't want galron to be on e2

I’m not sold on Cephrir!town but I don’t like the way you or Galron entered the thread after kyouko called you town partners with Infinity

Here's Gamma's post. Without the context of the typo, it is ambiguous whether he is using the plural or the singular you, and since the first use of you in the post is singular ( and is addressed at Galron) it is easily read that way from his point of view.

Gamma did write town partners, but it's not wrong to interpret it the way I think he might have.

Okay not literally a joke, but the implication was that because tetrina pointed to you and you to Galron, that he should point to tetrina. Obviously that's not a serious train of thought, like you were just memeing out, but he responded as though it were serious

VOTE: Galron

third times the charm?

can you explain to me the issue with

'do you think scum!player (where player is not the one speaking or being spoken to) would do this:'

as that seems to be the basis for your galron read as well as for your gamma emerald case

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron. Maybe you mean my comment on the way that Gamma moved from Galron to DGB? That is equity with scum!Gamma that comes from Gamma's side and isn't AI for Galron unless Gamma flips red. It makes me feel better that there is equity between my scumreads, but I'm not scumreading Galron

because

of Gamma.

I wouldn't call it the

basis

for my Gamma case, but that's possibly a matter of perception. It is the

reason

I tried to trap him around an infinity partner read. I think his behavior around her, and hers around him, are suspicious, but I don't think there is interest in eliminating him today.

The reason it pinged me in the first place is this - it is a tell specific to Gamma:
"Will ask the general playerbase how they feel about his partner to either a) remove them from people's minds to eliminate or b) know the time is right to bus them
Source: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12881030 (Large 233)"
(from Gamma's scumtells in a notes file I keep on my PC)

It's not the basis for my Galron read, I don't know if that's even a point I've made against Galron.

this was the first time you voted for galron:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

I think skitter is probably town and this (and DGB's vote on skitter) are giving me alarm bells.

Feels like TMI, but if it is TMI, it seems like the intent is to make light of the wagon on skitter indirectly ("it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up"). I say it seems like TMI because Galron has been talking to me as though I'm null or scummy to this point, most of his posting is about how the callers are a distraction iirc. That makes me think he would see me as scummy for bringing the focus there. But he asks his hypothetical as though he knows I'm town. This doesn't align.

VOTE: Galron

It remains to be seen if this is WKing or just defending a buddy but I think Skitter has behaved well since voting me and since I voted her.

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

The first halves of the sentences are the same but you're comparing apples to oranges. It's right in that post that I think Galron is TMIing me as town. In Gamma's 321 I suspected that scum!Gamma was testing the waters to see if he would need to bus scum!Infinity

right but the tmiing you as town would be on account of asking you if scum!skitter would do x and that doesn't seem to be implied to me so i am asking the issue with this general type of question as it also stood out to you elsewhere

unless you think simply assuming that scum!skitter wouldn't be pushing scum!you in that situation is tmi? because that feels ??? to me

I think you might need to reread the posts more closely as there are a couple of problems with what you're describing.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

Galron is addressing DGB in response to it voting Skitter.
Galron says, to DGB, does scum!Skitter push town [Kyouko] like this?
I identify this (Galron referring to me as town) feels TMI to me because so far I have felt that Galron viewed me as null or scummy, and that if anything, he should have a negative view of me because he sees the discussion about the callers as distracting.

1.

yeah first you meant not to be there

but asking

2.

do you think scum!skitter does pushes you like this as town?

3.

does not imply that you are town? like you are answering the question for drippinggoofball as 'yes' in order to conclude that

4.

galron was tmiing you as town?

5.

whereas asking 'do you think scum!skitter pushes a wagon likely to fall apart like this?'

6.

to me implies that galron thinks it is not super likely but is asking drippinggoofball for their opinion

7.

and thus if not likely that galron thinks scum!skitter would do this, that implies galron thinks more likely town!skitter, thus not inconsistent with earlier interactions with you

8.

so i am asking why this sort of question means that to you

1. I'm thinking this is a reference to a typo, not sure. If it's important lmk.
2. This is the exact question that was asked, with the green inserted by me for clarity, because the wording in your post is unclear:

VOTE: skitter30

Does a scum!Skitter spend this much effort trying to build a case on town

[Kyouko]

on day 1 of a phase when it's likely any wagon there is likely to break up?

3. I am the player that Skitter was spending effort in trying to build a case on, so yes, it does imply that I am town. If DGB had answered yes, it would follow that DGB also concedes that I am town for the purposes of answering the question. I have drawn no conclusions about anyone, including DGB, from a made-up answer to this question. I

have

drawn conlcusions about Galron based on the wording he used in his own question. He chose those words.

4. Galron

is

slipping that he thinks I am town here. If he were not, he would have worded the question differently.
5. <nothing to respond to>
6. I don't disagree with your conclusion here. This, however, has nothing to do with Galron TMIing me as town. If he was posing the question as though I were town, he would have said "town!Kyouko", instead of "town", because he did use "scum!Skitter" as a hypothetical.
7. Galron's read on skitter is not what is inconsistent. What is inconsistent is that he sees the discussions about the callers as a distraction, but even though I have been very focused on the callers, he slips that I am town, when he hasn't mentioned anything of the sort before. In fact, later on, when I further clarify that the inconsistency on me is related to my focus on the callers, he claims he has no read on me yet, but he does have a view on me:

Galron I think should have a different view of me based on his stance around the communications from the callers. He said they're a distraction and town should not abide a distraction taking hold of the thread

What is my view of you? I'm not even sure I've got a read on you yet, but I do have a view. I'll tell you about it after you tell me what you think it is.

I believe the initial communications were a distraction, yes, put there for color. Whether the subsequent ones are relevant, no idea yet.

8. Apples and oranges. My read on Galron is not related to "this sort of question" in the sense you seem to think it is. The only relation it has to that question is that in the wording of that question, Galron TMIs that I am town.

That took a while to write because Rousseau is obfuscating the issue with the formatting and misquoting the actual content of the quotes because it's coming from memory^

now it just looks to me like your point is,

is tmi because 'town' instead of 'town!kyouko'

which, uh, shrug

what's the rest of the reasoning as to why galron is a scums?

shortly thereafter he says he doesn't have a read on me yet, which is in contradiction with him calling me town in his question to DGB. I think this further indicates that calling me town was a slip and he's backtracking to cover it up.
I also haven't seen anything since then to convince me he's townie or solving.
Furthermore, the way he says he "leaned in" to your meme question about the triangle of being annoyed between Tetrina, you, and him, makes me think he's having trouble engaging in general and is "leaning in" to try to force some involvement. Describing it as leaning in reveals that he is aware he is detached, and it feels like something scum would do: Open up about what they're actually feeling in a game to appear genuine and therefore townie.

Hmm...

Roden, what's your opinion on Galron? Do you think he could be scum? You seemed to be talking like he could be earlier, but then this...

VOTE: Galron

Does Galron still fit into the equation if both Infinity and Gamma are town? I'm back and forth on Gamma but I think Infinity backed up everything she said about her TR on Gamma with some pretty detailed receipts.

This kind of made me think otherwise.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Pooky

That readlist of the communicaters comes from scum I think. Scum know who the scum NPC is. This is Pooky leading Town into deception.

???

@callers,

Think it was asked already, but do you know if there is any material benefit if we or you can identify the scum caller?

So you think pooky is scum and telling us to listen to the scum caller, who is...?

My argument on you was not the same thing over and over yesterday. I've included my takes on you and my interactions with you in that spoiler^. I spent several IRL days prodding at Gamma re:Infinity to build that case, and in the end I was satisfied with his responses, so I didn't go back to the case, no, instead I formed a TR on him. This should all be clear if you were paying attention to me on D1, and if you weren't paying attention, I would expect town to do some homework before their vote, unless they were just sheeping, and you said that wasn't the case.

VOTE: Galron

I go on to show that I was not just repeating the case on him over and over yesterDay and explain why Gamma's case I dropped, but his I did not. Then I imply he is scum because he did not do his homework for a vote that he has claimed is not a sheep vote.

Below, we have the interactions between Galron and I, and his thoughts on me, from the start of D1:

You feel less measured here, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

Galron responds to 2 of my posts, and I think it's fair to assume from his tone he is not SRing me at this point, but maybe this is incorrect. Certainly if he has 2 strong scumreads, Gamaa and I, at the end of D1, I would expect it to be evident in his posting towards me that he scumreads me. If he does scumread me here, he is hiding it well.

You feel less measured here

, and I feel like as scum you like to bring attention to your playstyle. It could be you bring attention to your town and scum playstyles matching as either alignment since I haven't played with town!S_S.

A lot of his posts are about him though. so how is he different this game?

bolded

So this response, imo, was already out there for him. I feel like it's not difficult to understand 2287. I say in that post that it could be that the second point is NAI (in more words). That means the first point is what tells me he's town.

btw who else noticed Rousseau's soft? Curious as to how likely it is that it went unnoticed. Cephrir would of course have seen because it was addressed at him, and I know I saw it on my first read, so it was probably noticeable, but idk how noticeable it really was.

I didn't and am kind of confused as to that comment about how it was directed more at cephrir than to me.

I just couldn't remember if rousseau directed the comment at you or Cephrir off the top of my head, and didnt want to go back to check. She was directing at Cephrir.

This is just my response to his other interaction with me. not indicative of Galron's alignment or his read on me I don't think.

Skitter- pushed me and defended Enchant in a way that would probably draw more attention than she would like
Pooky- was calling me scum and could have hammered me but didn't
Ceph- switched off of me to Enchant and admitted seeing rousseau's crumb
DGB- weird contrary reads and self-destructive play
Ydrasse- switched off of me to Enchant
Galron- 1823

What don't you think is townie about Tetrina or kyouko?

2305 is S_S's readslist which was originally in

Spoiler: this post.

Uh, something like

Skitter, Pooky, Ceph, DGB
Ydrasse, Galron
Everyone else

I think from this post it is clear that at this point Galron has a problem with S_S not saying that Tetrina and I are town, which heavily implies he thinks we both are town, unless he thinks we are both scum, in which case I think it would be unnatural to phrase the question in the way he did, and instead he would have said "Do you think Tetrina and Kyouko are scum?" or "What do you think of Tetrina and Kyouko?", if Galron had one or both of us in null and wondered if S_S might also.

That last post is the most convincing evidence that Galron was lying about scumreading me at the end of D1/start of D2. It is also evident that he was not, in his exact words,

"just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me"

, when I asked him if he was sheeping skitter. He didn't start doing any of that until after I asked him if he was sheeping. Skitter is probably town here because it would just be bad to double up and hardpush me if skitter/Galron were teamed, so I think Galron is taking advantage of Skitter's tunnel, gets caught sheeping, and when pressured about his vote on me, lies about the reason he is voting me because he doesn't want to look bad for just sheeping.

Nothing would have been wrong with just sheeping skitter, but Galron didn't own that and tried to say he was voting me for actual reasons, and it's clear they were made up after the fact.

[Infinity 324]

@gamma i'm not unfortunately

the only time I've seen scum!ss since my hiatus is when he played awesome and lived until elo and scum ended up winning so it's not really comparable

i sorta feel like he'd try more as town too? but i'm confused

I’m reading S_S here the way you used to read me

"towny without trying to look town" is exactly how i townread ss in pyp and he was scum there :(

[Infinity 324]

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

I guess I disagree on this. We're three days deep into this phase, and no one's come up with a good argument, and of those that we have hers makes the most sense. What are your issues with it?

Also, what about kyouko? You indicated that she and I are t/t, but what am I missing wrt her positioning back to me and not gamma? I know my deal on kyouko is kinda weak, but she asked if I was just sheeping skitter, and I was just spewing what I had been thinking about the past few days about her argument wrt me. So I'm not going to exactly just let it go without some sort of vetting.

it makes "sense" on a surface level but then you look at other people's progressions on the s_s/enchant slots, including skitter's, and they're similarly bad. it's almost like there's not much to read inactive slots off of.

i'm not quite sure what you're asking about in the second part. i agree that her case on you was bad, but i've seen town put similar weight on silly tmi reads before so it's definitely not scummy imo. also her case on gamma is still super towny and like skitt said as the time, scum don't really do the "trapping" thing. i'm not really sure why skitt is requiring ssbm to do thing to keep up the townread but i guess we're just approaching this differently, i also thought her early d1 was super towny but she didn't

[Infinity 324]

are we sure skitter isn't scum

her case on ssbm is pretty bad

And I kind of get the feeling that you've been phoning it in the last few days, but you're not the only one. I don't know if that's because of the staleness of the game rn or if the roster is making the game stale on purpose. Do you have any thoughts on that?

pedit: (that's my gamestate read pooky)

for me, there's way too many towny people and my sr on skitt was where i got a lot of my confidence about my view of the gamestate, but now that i'm less confident there i don't really know where to go.

i feel like part of it is that people have been waiting for ss to do stuff, but besides that i'm not really sure what's making the gamestate stale

[Infinity 324]

making sense is a scumtell tbh