mini normal 2226; who won

[MathBlade]

Only reason we lost that is screwed on normal rules twice:

Once with draw rules
And
Once with day three IC which is not normal.

So *shrug*

[MathBlade]

Math, does town still "autowin" if we lim someone in the PoE pool today and lim me tomorrow if they flip town? If so, flip Luke today, if he flips town I'll self-vote tomorrow.

The reason we auto win is we trade a maybe for either a scum or two conf towns.

I also don’t like bartering with scum but if Titus agrees I will.

[ChaosOmega]

Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.

[MathBlade]

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here

[MathBlade]

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here

Sorry meant to PM that to myself and whoops mobile

[MathBlade]

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here

Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.

I would rather elim my top suspect and if I am wrong get two townfirms sorry.

[Lukewarm]

Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.

I am pretty sure that the proposed plan was "kill you, if you are town kill the poe (which includes me)"

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

So, from my pov, this just looks like trying to sneak in an extra miselim before you die, and we change our thinking on the whole situation

[Datisi]

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do

[ChaosOmega]

Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.

I am pretty sure that the proposed plan was "kill you, if you are town kill the poe (which includes me)"

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

So, from my pov, this just looks like trying to sneak in an extra miselim before you die, and we change our thinking on the whole situation

I'm settled as the lim for today it looks like. If you flip scum, that means that if you think I'm scum, I tunneled one of my partners D1 and softed a guilty on the other D2. It's just not something I'd do, I'm too lazy to do all that and try to win after. Math is a blockhead, so you're probably fine for today though.

[MathBlade]

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do

Or you know if Chaos flips town we realize it for what it is then elim in the PoE.

Even if you imho incorrectly assume Not Mafia is scum then there is still a scum in the PoE unless you’re assuming two scum in the PRs.

[Lukewarm]

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do

That is your plan. Not Math's

And Chaos was engaging with math, and asking if math's plan would still work flipping me first.

[Lukewarm]

I'm settled as the lim for today it looks like. If you flip scum, that means that if you think I'm scum,

I don't really include what would happen if I would flip scum in my "from my pov" analysis lol

[Datisi]

i know, i was just stating my opinion, in case i get murdered tonight.

@math, on chaos townflip, n_m is still within the poe. and i'm really really not buying "a clusterfuck of prs meant to kill each other."

[MathBlade]

i know, i was just stating my opinion, in case i get murdered tonight.

@math, on chaos townflip, n_m is still within the poe. and i'm really really not buying "a clusterfuck of prs meant to kill each other."

Too bad I do. So not mafia is not in the PoE to me.

If you convince a lot of other people to miselim Not Mafia and you’re town then you die then the prophecy I gave earlier is fulfilled. I want to prevent that and hunt where we know scum have to be if Chaos is town.

[Datisi]

math, i'm sorry but i really really think you should not be the dictator who gets to decide what is supposed to be balanced and what isn't. i'm not saying your calculations are *wrong*, i'm saying they're detached from how mastina functions as a game designer and reviewer - clearest evidence of this can be seen in the post game of garfield mini normal. and this game is being played under her rules, not yours.

[MathBlade]

math, i'm sorry but i really really think you should not be the dictator who gets to decide what is supposed to be balanced and what isn't. i'm not saying your calculations are *wrong*, i'm saying they're detached from how mastina functions as a game designer and reviewer - clearest evidence of this can be seen in the post game of garfield mini normal. and this game is being played under her rules, not yours.

I don’t think you follow me

I am saying that I am assuming Chaos is scum here.
If he isn’t I don’t care because we win no matter what in that world.

I always play to win.
I agree this is played under her rule set right now.

So if it is an unbalanced game I still play to win and that means elimming Chaos.

[MathBlade]

You’re literally not getting me to vote elsewhere when Chaos flip is either scum or makes the game autowin/very likely win. You’re just not.

If you go elsewhere that’s you but one maybe for a scum or two townfirms is a hell of a good trade

[Datisi]

i am saying that assuming chaos is town, not_mafia has to die. you're giving me some convoluted explanation why that's not the case because ~game balance~. i'm rejecting that.

i have zero faith he flips red. if he does, i'll look like a moron, i'll probably pop a few blood vessels trying to defend myself tomorrow and trying to remind everyone that titus has a clear on me, etc. we'll talk about that when we get there - i'm discussing a greenomega world.

[MathBlade]

i am saying that assuming chaos is town, not_mafia has to die. you're giving me some convoluted explanation why that's not the case because ~game balance~. i'm rejecting that.

i have zero faith he flips red. if he does, i'll look like a moron, i'll probably pop a few blood vessels trying to defend myself tomorrow and trying to remind everyone that titus has a clear on me, etc. we'll talk about that when we get there - i'm discussing a greenomega world.

If you have zero faith not mafia flips red I have nothing to convince you of?

[ChaosOmega]

He's obviously saying zero faith that I flip red.

[MathBlade]

Then we are back here where I don’t see a scum!NM world where he revises his claim so I don’t elim NM.

I go after the PoE like Datisi should be doing even if he believes IMhO incorrectly that NM is scum. He has to be scum with someone

[ChaosOmega]

Math/N_M team here makes a lot of sense. Refusal to put N_M in the pool, his mislims are already set up, me > Luke > Ari, scum win.

[MathBlade]

Yes and I go after you because I want to lose because I don’t win in that world as previously explained. /s obviously

[Lukewarm]

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do

I see what you are saying, but Mastina has definitely approved 5 prs in a 13 player set up before. And I am talking

Town Friendly Neighbor
Town Roleblocker
Town Jailkeeper
Town Odd Night Vanilla Cop
Town Doctor
5 Vanilla townies

Vs

3 Mafia goons

Which...............

And then in the post game, she said that having 5 prs instead of 4 was BETTER FOR THE SCUM TEAM... specifically because having 5 prs meant that town was more likely to doubt them

This game could probably have lost the odd-night vanilla cop, but ironically I feel like that'd have made the game MORE townsided, by virtue of "town needs all of these PRs to be real, or else the game's scumsided". (3-4 power roles is the standard, so having exactly 4 would mean it'd be unlikely any would be doubted.)

[ChaosOmega]

Yes and I go after you because I want to lose because I don’t win in that world as previously explained. /s obviously

How don't you win? If you and N_M are the last two, why wouldn't you be able to push mislims on Luke and Ari after I flip town? They're both in the PoE pool. I've heard someone in this game state that as scum, you have full control of everything or some sort of nonsense.