mini normal 2226; who won

Normal Games (With basic roles and standard mechanics) Signups Here
Forum rules
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3350 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:30 am

Post by MathBlade »

Only reason we lost that is screwed on normal rules twice:

Once with draw rules
And
Once with day three IC which is not normal.

So *shrug*
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3351 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:31 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3349, ChaosOmega wrote:Math, does town still "autowin" if we lim someone in the PoE pool today and lim me tomorrow if they flip town? If so, flip Luke today, if he flips town I'll self-vote tomorrow.
The reason we auto win is we trade a maybe for either a scum or two conf towns.

I also don’t like bartering with scum but if Titus agrees I will.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
ChaosOmega
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2283
Joined: May 2, 2007

Post Post #3352 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:36 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3353 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:38 am

Post by MathBlade »

I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3354 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:39 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3353, MathBlade wrote:I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here
Sorry meant to PM that to myself and whoops mobile
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3355 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:41 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3353, MathBlade wrote:I did Garfield for the lols 9,9,6,27 percent odds

You’re looking at 58% chance of none getting a guilty then 42% chance of a guilty N1.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

So 42% of the time scum die early, maybe 35% with a lucky PR claim, still doesn’t help. I agree scum dying early protown is good design. But they should be able to distance. I don’t see that good design here
In post 3352, ChaosOmega wrote:Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.
I would rather elim my top suspect and if I am wrong get two townfirms sorry.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
Lukewarm
Lukewarm
Rising Star
User avatar
User avatar
Lukewarm
Rising Star
Rising Star
Posts: 8333
Joined: March 21, 2021

Post Post #3356 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:43 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 3352, ChaosOmega wrote:Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.
I am pretty sure that the proposed plan was "kill you, if you are town kill the poe (which includes me)"

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

So, from my pov, this just looks like trying to sneak in an extra miselim before you die, and we change our thinking on the whole situation :dead:
I have a GTKAS now! - Come ask me questions!

They're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice - Bell
Luke, respect for your scumgame has gone up massively - Hectic
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
Drawn from Memory
Posts: 23603
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia

Post Post #3357 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:48 am

Post by Datisi »

In post 3356, Lukewarm wrote:So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?
actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
ChaosOmega
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2283
Joined: May 2, 2007

Post Post #3358 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:48 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

In post 3356, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 3352, ChaosOmega wrote:Unless there's 3 scum left (which would be absurd), we wouldn't be in danger of losing with 2 mislims, so you'd get the conf towns from me dying still. And if I'm limmed first, you're still limming in the PoE next, this is just flipping the order. But I've thought Luke is scum since day 1, I'd like to at least have a chance to lim another scum before I'm limmed for your not actually auto autowin.
I am pretty sure that the proposed plan was "kill you, if you are town kill the poe (which includes me)"

So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?

So, from my pov, this just looks like trying to sneak in an extra miselim before you die, and we change our thinking on the whole situation :dead:
I'm settled as the lim for today it looks like. If you flip scum, that means that if you think I'm scum, I tunneled one of my partners D1 and softed a guilty on the other D2. It's just not something I'd do, I'm too lazy to do all that and try to win after. Math is a blockhead, so you're probably fine for today though.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3359 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:51 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3357, Datisi wrote:
In post 3356, Lukewarm wrote:So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?
actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do
Or you know if Chaos flips town we realize it for what it is then elim in the PoE.

Even if you imho incorrectly assume Not Mafia is scum then there is still a scum in the PoE unless you’re assuming two scum in the PRs.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
Lukewarm
Lukewarm
Rising Star
User avatar
User avatar
Lukewarm
Rising Star
Rising Star
Posts: 8333
Joined: March 21, 2021

Post Post #3360 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:55 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 3357, Datisi wrote:
In post 3356, Lukewarm wrote:So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?
actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do
That is your plan. Not Math's

And Chaos was engaging with math, and asking if math's plan would still work flipping me first.
I have a GTKAS now! - Come ask me questions!

They're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice - Bell
Luke, respect for your scumgame has gone up massively - Hectic
User avatar
Lukewarm
Lukewarm
Rising Star
User avatar
User avatar
Lukewarm
Rising Star
Rising Star
Posts: 8333
Joined: March 21, 2021

Post Post #3361 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:56 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 3358, ChaosOmega wrote:I'm settled as the lim for today it looks like. If you flip scum, that means that if you think I'm scum,
I don't really include what would happen if I would flip scum in my "from my pov" analysis lol
I have a GTKAS now! - Come ask me questions!

They're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice - Bell
Luke, respect for your scumgame has gone up massively - Hectic
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
Drawn from Memory
Posts: 23603
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia

Post Post #3362 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:58 am

Post by Datisi »

i know, i was just stating my opinion, in case i get murdered tonight.

@math, on chaos townflip, n_m is still within the poe. and i'm really really not buying "a clusterfuck of prs meant to kill each other."
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3363 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:00 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3362, Datisi wrote:i know, i was just stating my opinion, in case i get murdered tonight.

@math, on chaos townflip, n_m is still within the poe. and i'm really really not buying "a clusterfuck of prs meant to kill each other."
Too bad I do. So not mafia is not in the PoE to me.

If you convince a lot of other people to miselim Not Mafia and you’re town then you die then the prophecy I gave earlier is fulfilled. I want to prevent that and hunt where we know scum have to be if Chaos is town.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
Drawn from Memory
Posts: 23603
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia

Post Post #3364 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:03 am

Post by Datisi »

math, i'm sorry but i really really think you should not be the dictator who gets to decide what is supposed to be balanced and what isn't. i'm not saying your calculations are *wrong*, i'm saying they're detached from how mastina functions as a game designer and reviewer - clearest evidence of this can be seen in the post game of garfield mini normal. and this game is being played under her rules, not yours.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3365 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:05 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3364, Datisi wrote:math, i'm sorry but i really really think you should not be the dictator who gets to decide what is supposed to be balanced and what isn't. i'm not saying your calculations are *wrong*, i'm saying they're detached from how mastina functions as a game designer and reviewer - clearest evidence of this can be seen in the post game of garfield mini normal. and this game is being played under her rules, not yours.
I don’t think you follow me

I am saying that I am assuming Chaos is scum here.
If he isn’t I don’t care because we win no matter what in that world.

I always play to win.
I agree this is played under her rule set right now.

So if it is an unbalanced game I still play to win and that means elimming Chaos.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3366 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:07 am

Post by MathBlade »

You’re literally not getting me to vote elsewhere when Chaos flip is either scum or makes the game autowin/very likely win. You’re just not.

If you go elsewhere that’s you but one maybe for a scum or two townfirms is a hell of a good trade
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
Datisi
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
User avatar
User avatar
Datisi
he/him, it/its
Drawn from Memory
Drawn from Memory
Posts: 23603
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia

Post Post #3367 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:10 am

Post by Datisi »

i am saying that assuming chaos is town, not_mafia has to die. you're giving me some convoluted explanation why that's not the case because ~game balance~. i'm rejecting that.

i have zero faith he flips red. if he does, i'll look like a moron, i'll probably pop a few blood vessels trying to defend myself tomorrow and trying to remind everyone that titus has a clear on me, etc. we'll talk about that when we get there - i'm discussing a greenomega world.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3368 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:13 am

Post by MathBlade »

In post 3367, Datisi wrote:i am saying that assuming chaos is town, not_mafia has to die. you're giving me some convoluted explanation why that's not the case because ~game balance~. i'm rejecting that.

i have zero faith he flips red. if he does, i'll look like a moron, i'll probably pop a few blood vessels trying to defend myself tomorrow and trying to remind everyone that titus has a clear on me, etc. we'll talk about that when we get there - i'm discussing a greenomega world.
If you have zero faith not mafia flips red I have nothing to convince you of?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
ChaosOmega
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2283
Joined: May 2, 2007

Post Post #3369 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:16 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

He's obviously saying zero faith that I flip red.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3370 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:18 am

Post by MathBlade »

Then we are back here where I don’t see a scum!NM world where he revises his claim so I don’t elim NM.

I go after the PoE like Datisi should be doing even if he believes IMhO incorrectly that NM is scum. He has to be scum with someone
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
ChaosOmega
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2283
Joined: May 2, 2007

Post Post #3371 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:18 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

Math/N_M team here makes a lot of sense. Refusal to put N_M in the pool, his mislims are already set up, me > Luke > Ari, scum win.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
User avatar
MathBlade
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
User avatar
User avatar
MathBlade
He/Him
Technical Support
Technical Support
Posts: 40490
Joined: September 9, 2013
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Western US

Post Post #3372 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:23 am

Post by MathBlade »

Yes and I go after you because I want to lose because I don’t win in that world as previously explained. /s obviously
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
GTKAS -- MathBlade
User avatar
Lukewarm
Lukewarm
Rising Star
User avatar
User avatar
Lukewarm
Rising Star
Rising Star
Posts: 8333
Joined: March 21, 2021

Post Post #3373 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:27 am

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 3357, Datisi wrote:
In post 3356, Lukewarm wrote:So, I actually think on a town you flip, I die immediately after anyways?
actually no, on a town!chaos flip we're yeeting n_m because i do not believe in 5 power roles here

i am going to look extremely stupid if then they both flip green, but if the setup was designed to have the power roles murdering each other, then there's not much we can do
I see what you are saying, but Mastina has definitely approved 5 prs in a 13 player set up before. And I am talking

Town Friendly Neighbor
Town Roleblocker
Town Jailkeeper
Town Odd Night Vanilla Cop
Town Doctor
5 Vanilla townies

Vs

3 Mafia goons


Which...............

And then in the post game, she said that having 5 prs instead of 4 was BETTER FOR THE SCUM TEAM... specifically because having 5 prs meant that town was more likely to doubt them
In post 5528, mastina wrote:This game could probably have lost the odd-night vanilla cop, but ironically I feel like that'd have made the game MORE townsided, by virtue of "town needs all of these PRs to be real, or else the game's scumsided". (3-4 power roles is the standard, so having exactly 4 would mean it'd be unlikely any would be doubted.)
I have a GTKAS now! - Come ask me questions!

They're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice - Bell
Luke, respect for your scumgame has gone up massively - Hectic
User avatar
ChaosOmega
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ChaosOmega
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2283
Joined: May 2, 2007

Post Post #3374 (ISO) » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:28 am

Post by ChaosOmega »

MathBlade wrote:Yes and I go after you because I want to lose because I don’t win in that world as previously explained. /s obviously
How don't you win? If you and N_M are the last two, why wouldn't you be able to push mislims on Luke and Ari after I flip town? They're both in the PoE pool. I've heard someone in this game state that as scum, you have full control of everything or some sort of nonsense.
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!
Locked