Newbie 2076 [Game Over]

[StrangeMatter]

I don’t play scum very well or even be interested in playing a scum game. A game of don’t get caught by everyone else is kind of boring, except hunting for PRs, that’s really the only fun part. Fun to me is not knowing in this game.

u replace all the time as scum...?

No, I still play it’s just not as fun outside of a few things.

[PenguinPower]

Vote Count 2.2

alstroemerial

(2): MargotRosa, Roden

GrandpaMo

(2): Ythan, T3

T3

(1): alstroemerial

Not voting

(3): GrandpaMo, StrangeMatter, Egix96

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-30 03:48:00)

[Egix96]

If T3 or Roden would openly post their shared understanding of what T3 was pulling, that could potentially clear everything up.

Once that's done, I'll probably just go ahead and vote since I don't foresee much else happening.
I'll try to give things a once-over in the meantime, since although I can say with some confidence which slots are likely town, I'm having trouble deciding which is the one that isn't.

[Roden]

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

Ok this makes me think Roden is town and you can’t change my mind about this.

[Egix96]

A bit short on time rn but I will say this:

The thing that gives me pause regarding Clasko is how LQ treated the slot. In retrospect, some of the scummiest posts LQ made (e.g. 69, 250) were regarding Clasko (the former of which especially doesn't feel SvS), and the sheer awkwardness of 276 gives me the impression that he was trying to get a cheap misyeet on Clasko but chickened out as soon as I commented on it.

Alstro does at times interact with LQ, but when they do it's mostly about things that matter less in the long run (see 131 -> 136 and 179 -> 182 for examples). The one thing that makes me a bit less sure is 315.

The multi-iso I've been running so far doesn't include T3 due to the limit of three, but from what I have been able to see, 172 -> 177 gives me some possible distancing vibes, and I've yet to fully verify the validity of Clasko's 306 but the final paragraph of it should give you an idea of what it could be.

[Egix96]

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

Yeah sry, forgot about that

VOTE: T3

[GrandpaMo]

A bit short on time rn but I will say this:

The thing that gives me pause regarding Clasko is how LQ treated the slot. In retrospect, some of the scummiest posts LQ made (e.g. 69, 250) were regarding Clasko (the former of which especially doesn't feel SvS), and the sheer awkwardness of 276 gives me the impression that he was trying to get a cheap misyeet on Clasko but chickened out as soon as I commented on it.

Alstro does at times interact with LQ, but when they do it's mostly about things that matter less in the long run (see 131 -> 136 and 179 -> 182 for examples). The one thing that makes me a bit less sure is 315.

The multi-iso I've been running so far doesn't include T3 due to the limit of three, but from what I have been able to see, 172 -> 177 gives me some possible distancing vibes, and I've yet to fully verify the validity of Clasko's 306 but the final paragraph of it should give you an idea of what it could be.

yea i just looked backed on it -- i thought lq was bussing this slot lol but it just looks like an easy mislynch on an afk after lq was getting pushed .

me the only push lq had on me -- makes me town there

[Ythan]

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia?

RQS is a scum tell. It's an irrelevant question that's just there to make you look busy.

VOTE: LQ

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia?

I've been playing on MS semi-regularly since I joined.

VOTE: Margot

You're forgetting that the D/P remakes are coming out later this year. Also, "honestly" tell.

P.S. Hockey is town on vibes.

What do you have against honesty?

It's nothing major, but it's simply that scum sometimes have a tendency to overuse words that they think will "sound" more towny.

Had a newbie game where someone said "tbh" over thirty times and turned out to be scum. They still won even after it was pointed out as a scum tell too.

Uh huh. What's your sample size for that?

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

You used the honesty tell unironically, same for the RQS tell, which I have never heard of. If you look through my newbie games, you will see I like RQS better than RVS.

I think LQ is genuinely trying to convince Roden of something here, +town Roden

[Ythan]

Actually, I noted something from one of Roden’s scum games, specifically involving past experiences with their scum game with me and Roden’s scum game with them, something really sticks out. So one thing I noticed is that Roden and T3 were townreading each other early, which he in my scum game actually said he would TR my slot when we were both scum. To me there’s also the fact that from what I parsed as pushing pressure off their teammate as well.

This is just meta, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think it should be pointed out.

Forgot to mention but this is from Gelato 2, Newbie 2066 and Sanwich Debate in 2071 as reference.

Does this happen often in Roden's Scum games? I'd kinda like to see a pattern.

This I think is a good highlight of LQ trying to build a case on Roden out of nothing and for me is +town Roden.

[Ythan]

It’s not really a pattern from just one person if you ask me. It’s a pattern between two users from my experience and reading into a scum game where both T3 and Roden were scum.

Why do you think they would play it the exact same way again?

Just because you lose as scum doesn’t mean you can’t do that kind of stuff again at all, and thinking like that could end up with scum completely getting away with doing said risky play because it IS the play Town wouldn’t expect.

I just think that adds a lot of unnecessary WIFOM into the game. No reason to think the team is exactly T3 and Roden yet.

YET

+town at least one of T3/Roden

[T3]

Roden knows, so does Strange partially.

[Ythan]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

Going back to this, this is pretty Scummy?

Feels sorta like fake.

???

What exactly sounds scummy or fake about this?

It feels fake because I don't think you honestly believe the stuff you are saying about RQS. Like, why is that Scummy? Look through my games, I lead off with RQS semi-regularely.

Like this:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11817906

I don't care if you always lead off with RQS? It's a notable scum tell and that doesn't change things just because you've done it in the past.

I wouldn't hard accuse anyone for it, the tbh tell was me commenting on Egix bringing it up and backing it up with my own belief in it. It's nothing I'd bother trying to use on Day 1 though, I think it's reasonable that people use it naturally in their speech patterns. It's just when you have people using it sparingly or never in their confirmed town games and then blatantly overusing it in games they're suspicious in, then I think it has merit.

My opinion on RQS doesn't seem popular, but I've been burned a few times by people who try to look helpful/busy by engaging in RQS but then turn out to be scum. It's easy town cred for too little effort IMO.

Then doubts the "tbh" tell and doubles down on the RQS? I said in 154 that defensiveness and honesty tells were bad, but to keep on the RQS thing was really bad.

T3 how sure are you that Roden is Town here? I expect a straight up answer here.

How am I doubting the tbh tell here? I literally advoated for it lmao, you're just making shit up here. Commenting on RQS isn't "bad", let alone scummy. You and Strange both keep looking for reasons to call me scummy but both of your attempts have been really weak and desperate.

Both you and Egix96 used the "honesty" tell. Egix96 said they were only halfway serious about it. You are doubling down on it being Scummy, when it was discussed at length that it's really only Scummy if someone overuses it as Scum compared to Town. I don't think you actually believe these tells. They might be semi-okay to get the game started, but they are really bad once we have 10+ pages. And you didn't stick to those tells. You unvoted me and never voted Margot for the honesty tell. It just seems like you don't actually believe it.

This is the first I've actually heard someone say "I don't think you believe this" lmao, how are you supposed to know what I actually believe? This isn't a real thought process.

Why would I vote Margot when she gave a legitimate reason? If it's a speech quirk and she didn't even say it much I have no reason to turbo elim her over that. It just sounds like you're projecting at this point because you keep saying my posts feel fake, but this legitimately cannot be a real thought process because it makes no logical sense.

Are they real tells or not? If not, and there are example to the contrary, then why would they be considered Tells at all?

This all seems like a genuine argument +town Roden

[Ythan]

This was so uncomfortable to read. Also very unnecessary since it did nothing to change my mind and overall added nothing to the game. LQ isn't scummy because of whatever personal reason Ythan has against him; LQ is scummy because his ISO is full of flip-flopping and opportunistic pushes with flimsy reasoning.

VOTE: LQ

I'd love for you to tell me what pushes I'm made that are opportunistic. If you think my push on Clasko was opportunistic (that the only one I can honestly see as being read that way) then I'd say initially I really thought it was a slip until I thought about it more. I was excited we caught Scum and then I lost confidence in it.

If there's a reason why being flip floppy is a Scum tell, I'd really love to hear it. I think flip floppy more often comes from Town, but what do I know?

Ditto this

[alstroemerial]

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

Ok this makes me think Roden is town and you can’t change my mind about this.

Agree that this makes Roden town but does not assuage my feelings about T3. (Also however not sure why this locks in a T3 vote if it wasn’t already @Egix?)

[alstroemerial]

Sorry for double quote

[Ythan]

T3 is probably town for the exact reason that Hockey outlined -- it's a huge gambit for scum to do right out the gate, so it seems unlikely.

Why is it Townie given it is Site Meta, which I have already talked about. If you go through other newbie games, I am sure it will be brought up early in the game. Fact check me on that.

Genuine lie? +town Alstro?

[Ythan]

I keep feeling like alstro is not really doing much. I feel like they are just posting to post - like they know they have to post something so they do, but none of it is really convincing because of so much hedging language (which is usually a Scum tell).

Overly detailed for a LQ bus? +town Alstro?

[Ythan]

Locktown: Hockey, Strange, Roden
Town: LQ
POE: Everyone else

Agree with this partly.

Strange seems to be acting townie, and I had a slight suspicion that Astra would not have pulled out if she had rolled Scum (which is very metagamey, which is why I didn't bring it up earlier).

Roden is still a strong Town lean for me, but I don't think I'd lock town yet.

I don't know that LQ has done much to assuage my earlier suspicions. I feel like people backed down from the scum read mainly on the basis of it being a bit of a pile on, and the fact that once I spelled out what I saw as the difference between scum defensiveness and townie defensiveness it changed.

The team I can most easily imagine in my head (which is admittedly pretty wonky at present) still remains Alstro and LQ, but that's a long shot, and doesn't really mean much day 1. Plus, Alstro has been acting far more Townie than previously.

Clasko's an interesting one, though I don't see the slip as an actual slip. Just seems like unfortunate phrasing.

Still think clearest bet for me right now remains LQ.

If I have your reasoning right for why I am Scum it is because my defensiveness changed after you said I was being defensive? And that just because the wagon developed doesn't mean I am Town? I can still be reasonable sometimes just like I can be defensive sometimes. When I explained to alstro that defensiveness isn't a Scum tell for me, the reached the conclusion that it is person dependent whereas you still think me being defensive is a Scum tell. I'm just trying to tell you here that being defensive isn't AI for me. Make of that what you will but it's true.

Seems like he's trying to defuse suspicious townies one by one +town Alstro

[StrangeMatter]

Process of Elimination makes

Clasko/GrandpaMo
T3
Egix
Alstromerical

[T3]

VOTE: alstro

[Egix96]

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

I'm not sure why you guys keep persisting to get T3 and me to explain what T3 is doing when I've stated multiple times now that it would out the Doc.

Ok this makes me think Roden is town and you can’t change my mind about this.

Agree that this makes Roden town but does not assuage my feelings about T3. (Also however not sure why this locks in a T3 vote if it wasn’t already @Egix?)

My T3 vote is due to quick interactions. I haven't yet reread everything but it's where I'm at atm

[MargotRosa]

Yeah, the last few pages of posts have just convinced me further that it's Alstro lol

[GrandpaMo]

Sorry for double quote

sorry alstro , you have to concede here buddy.

[StrangeMatter]

I think my problem right now is that LQ has interactions involving several people in some way during this game, and I feel like going off interactions isn’t going to really be helpful, and is probably what scum wants if you ask me.