Open 825 - PYP X/Y: HoS_S [game over!]

[Miss Midnight]

Don't agree with Thor's pagetop theory. At least not without any real data to back it up.

(The irony isn't lost on me.)

[House]

Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum

You missed some context, there.

It wasn't that he was defending me. I know what white knighting is.

It's HOW he was defending me.

[Miss Midnight]

It's curious to see the things you choose to engage with, Something_Smart. It might sound this way, but I don't say "curious" in the sense of trying to make some basic insinuation of you being scum or some loose pre-flip partner connection, I truly just mean that it's curious.

Do you townread Thor? Scumread House, or Flea as of you making post 885? I don't think I disagree with anything that you're saying in any of your posts around pages 35-36, it's just strange to me that for a seeming man of few words, these are the things you're choosing to engage with. I just want to understand the motivation.

[Miss Midnight]

Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum

You missed some context, there.

It wasn't that he was defending me. I know what white knighting is.

It's HOW he was defending me.

That doesn't really make a difference to the point that I was making.

[Miss Midnight]

S_S, also curious about your declaring Flea town. Is it just about post 899? This time, I'll admit that the use of "curious" actually does carry with it a bit of a connotation of suspicion. I'm not sure I like the outright declaration from you that someone is town. It feels overconfident.

[Miss Midnight]

And you don't strike me as an overconfident person.

[House]

Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum

You missed some context, there.

It wasn't that he was defending me. I know what white knighting is.

It's HOW he was defending me.

That doesn't really make a difference to the point that I was making.

I operate under the assumption that players prefer clarity.

Maybe that's just a personal preference that i project onto others.

[Miss Midnight]

For the record, and it truly is for the record because the thread has probably moved past this discourse by now, none of my scumread on Thor was based on a "weird" playstyle or any of the random stats posts. It was primarily based off of the vote on Gamma, which I think was pretty heavily scummy. Don't think the stats posts themselves are scum indicative, but also they're not town indicative. Think the most revealing parts of Thor's ISO, as I've seen it from what I've read until, come from posts voting, discussing votes or talking about reads.

[Miss Midnight]

Townies have a tendency to townread defenses of themselves, there's a cognitive bias against seeing reasons that someone defending you would be scum

You missed some context, there.

It wasn't that he was defending me. I know what white knighting is.

It's HOW he was defending me.

That doesn't really make a difference to the point that I was making.

I operate under the assumption that players prefer clarity.

Maybe that's just a personal preference that i project onto others.

Not begrudging you for clarifying. Clarify away, it's quite helpful. Just stating that it doesn't make a difference to the point that I was making. Sometimes clarification would. This time, it didn't.

Don't take it so personally.

[House]

Don't take it so personally.

Clearly, we haven't met.

[Harvey and Haley]

You're not the first to call me by my pronouns, don't worry about it Mom just calls me Faer at this point lol <3

Okay

My unsolicited opinion is- I thought it was a bit odd that out of the two people voting for you, you called out Gamma for having a limited variety of interactions lol. I'm curious to hear what your thoughts on Flea are, since the bulk of their interactions have been at or about you.

Good observation. I have experience playing with Gamma and his lack of overall nuance and meaningful interaction strike me as concerning, and (IIRC) no experience with Flea. Flea's entire attack also seems genuine, even if it's incorrect; and without a baseline I don't find it particularly suspicious in a vacuum. Do

you

make something out of Flea's hyperfocus on me?


-Harvey

[Miss Midnight]

Hey, what am I, chopped liver?

Have you done that? Sorry if I forgot. What game was it?

Was this a joke? Serious question.

[House]

Just stating that it doesn't make a difference to the point that I was making. Sometimes clarification would. This time, it didn't.

I would have thought that it might have, if you're trying to sort Thor.

I wasn't sure about who he was until his defense of me where he leaked knowledge of my meta (though it is years old, it was accurate as of the last time we were in a game together).

As scum, he could have sat on that knowledge and left me in the dark, as i was not making any assumptions about his main (even though it's quite obvious now that I'm 99% sure who it is, now).

Defending me the way he did (instead of making some generic "townread"also defense) outed information about him, which he'd have no motive to do as scum.

[Miss Midnight]

There's something intangible I find scummy about Gamma's posts on page 38. I'll hone in on one post in specific, though.

He never rushes to make these kinds of calls on me when he's town.

I mentioned what I did in response to this. For no other reason.
My vote remains on House until he acknowledges this.

This last line here. Seems to me to be mildly suggestive of someone who doesn't really believe in the read that they're voting. If I had a scumread that wasn't answering some point I made or question I asked, this isn't how I'd think. Or how I think many townies would think. Primary concern would be to demonstrate to the rest of the town at large that this person is ignoring something that I said, not to speak directly to the person I'm voting.

[House]

This last line here. Seems to me to be mildly suggestive of someone who doesn't really believe in the read that they're voting.

Meh. We were in a pissing match against each other. You could have easily pulled a post about me referring to my vote on Gamma and said the same thing.

I don't think he was actually scumreading me, and i was only voting him out of spite... but that's old news.

[Miss Midnight]

Just stating that it doesn't make a difference to the point that I was making. Sometimes clarification would. This time, it didn't.

I would have thought that it might have, if you're trying to sort Thor.

I wasn't sure about who he was until his defense of me where he leaked knowledge of my meta (though it is years old, it was accurate as of the last time we were in a game together).

As scum, he could have sat on that knowledge and left me in the dark, as i was not making any assumptions about his main (even though it's quite obvious now that I'm 99% sure who it is, now).

Defending me the way he did (instead of making some generic "townread"also defense) outed information about him, which he'd have no motive to do as scum.

I wasn't trying to use that post to sort Thor, it was just for you. Think that this read your making reflects more on you than it does Thor, as I said. This reasoning speaks to me very little, I've seen it too often apply to scum to have it be meaningful in any sense for me.

Question. Do you think that other people in the thread took what Thor said or revealed about you and incorporated it into their reads on you in a significant way? It seems to me to be no. Which means that on a theory level, a scum Thor loses very little from revealing this information to people, but gains a lot if it turns you in his favor, which it frequently does. I'm not alleging in the slightest that this is what Thor did, I'm just explaining a possible justification for it as scum. As well as part of the reason that I don't really factor it into my read on him.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, also curious about your declaring Flea town. Is it just about post 899? This time, I'll admit that the use of "curious" actually does carry with it a bit of a connotation of suspicion. I'm not sure I like the outright declaration from you that someone is town. It feels overconfident.

It is, yes. I expected a short answer from town-Flea and an even shorter answer from scum-Flea, and got a very long and detailed one that also offered up some pretty genuine-seeming and completely unprompted draft thoughts.

And it's... not overconfident, exactly, but oversimplified for sure. I obviously don't think Flea is 100% town, it's just a matter of, I didn't have any townreads up till that point, so I was grateful to find one and didn't really care about where exactly in the townreads I put faer.

[Miss Midnight]

This last line here. Seems to me to be mildly suggestive of someone who doesn't really believe in the read that they're voting.

Meh. We were in a pissing match against each other. You could have easily pulled a post about me referring to my vote on Gamma and said the same thing.

I don't think he was actually scumreading me, and i was only voting him out of spite... but that's old news.

I think that there's a difference between the obviously game-external umbrage you had with Gamma in regards to what you were complaining about earlier, and Gamma's last line there. I don't really think that it's super relevant or important to get into that, though. So I won't.

[Miss Midnight]

S_S, also curious about your declaring Flea town. Is it just about post 899? This time, I'll admit that the use of "curious" actually does carry with it a bit of a connotation of suspicion. I'm not sure I like the outright declaration from you that someone is town. It feels overconfident.

It is, yes. I expected a short answer from town-Flea and an even shorter answer from scum-Flea, and got a very long and detailed one that also offered up some pretty genuine-seeming and completely unprompted draft thoughts.

And it's... not overconfident, exactly, but oversimplified for sure. I obviously don't think Flea is 100% town, it's just a matter of, I didn't have any townreads up till that point, so I was grateful to find one and didn't really care about where exactly in the townreads I put faer.

What would you say your main motivation was for the questioning of people scumreading Thor around that time?

[Something_Smart]

Was this a joke? Serious question.

No. I wanted to know if Titus had, in some past game, asked me to put down a vote and then drawn a valuable conclusion from it after I complied, because I don't remember that ever happening.

[Miss Midnight]

Okay. Full disclosure, I think that that makes 947 mildly scum indicative. Think Titus was joking, you didn't understand that, and scum in general tend to misunderstand, completely miss or misinterpret jokes more than town do on a non-insignificant level.

[Something_Smart]

What would you say your main motivation was for the questioning of people scumreading Thor around that time?

I think just to understand the reads so that if I disagree with the reasoning I can voice that disagreement without jumping to conclusions.

[Something_Smart]

Okay. Full disclosure, I think that that makes 947 mildly scum indicative. Think Titus was joking, you didn't understand that, and scum in general tend to misunderstand, completely miss or misinterpret jokes more than town do on a non-insignificant level.

What's the joke?

[Something_Smart]

I mean if she was joking it's because she misread my post.

[Harvey and Haley]

Don't agree with Thor's pagetop theory. At least not without any real data to back it up.

(The irony isn't lost on me.)

A small addition - the Activity Tracker doesn't present the distribution of posts over time for each player, but their total posts. But since we have exact timestamp data anyway, we can directly plot these rather than go for pagetops (which is potentially only a decent proxy at high scale and at those scales given the amount of spam bursts it fails so meh). Lemme try that.

-Harvey