mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

[mastina]

Taking a small break waiting for an automated email that for whatever reason is taking a long time to go through so may as well reduce my workload here.

although I think RCE-scum has like every reason to jump on our suspicion of mastina if town, and he...didn't do that, so.

This is fair although there are multiple possible explanations for this.
Option one: he is town.
Option two: he is scum who is largely apathetic, indifferent, etc., and doesn't really want to bother with the effort.
Option three: he is scum who knows that he and Aristeia are caught, but is worried that if he tried to rally against someone like me, it'd end up exposing the third scum and/or townspewing a town player who was otherwise suspect.
Option four: he is scum who thinks that the best way for him to survive is to

not

push me specifically due to a push on me being suspect. After all, I'm not actually voting him right now. He's only got two votes on him. If he can put in the thought that this is option one despite it not being that, there's a chance instead of hitting scum, we land on town.
Option five: he is presently not pursuing the mastina-scum line of thought but can switch to it if he feels like there's a good opening to have done so, making a more "natural" read progression.

Might be more, but you get the idea.

I'm not sure which of the five options I thought of is the correct one. I intend to find out by continuing my effort to solve.

can you make your town case on mastina that doesn't boil to "mastina post therefore mastina town"?

I can help you there.

I have a flowchart for reading me.
It's somewhat dated, it doesn't include some things which it should, but overall it still functions as an overall picture of the guiding philosophy behind my towngame vs. my philosophy in my scumgame.

Overall, as town I have a very very strong tendency towards flawed-logic pushes that are passionate, with conviction, uncaring of the individual being pushed's feelings, insensitive, and while my reasons are internally consistent and make sense and have some form of logic to them, they are still ultimately very easily shown to have the flaws because I struggle to form arguments without them but continue to push what I believe.

Whereas scumastina still, in spite of her degradation, still follows many of these principles (btw that article needs to have the site policy update done on it but I am too busy to attend to that), notably:
Logical, cold, pure, logical pushes that have basically no flaws in them, but also lack passion. They are made deliberately to avoid ticking players off. Every scumread, calculated and precise so that it can be backed out of if necessary. Every scumread, actual solid basis but lacking strong conviction behind the push. Every scumread, logical, but dispassionate, more of a business deal transaction than act of belief. After all, it doesn't matter if you're blatantly not playing to your towngame if people don't want to eliminate you. If people look at your posts and like them, you can live for surprisingly long. (Admittedly, poe eventually kills you, but I've never been the scum to rely on to endgame anyway.)

GCB and Ari soft defending RCE makes me think the consensus solve is right.

I AM somewhat inclined to agree although I'd say Aristeia's defense has gone beyond the point of being 'soft' and is quite hard, and GCB's defense may also be that.

Still though, due process is...well, due. I've got ~80-100 pages to reread to get a better grasp on the gamestate and I BELIEVE I have the time to do so, as long as I don't procrastinate and don't suffer another rl crash.

May as well pagetop these.

[T3]

fun fun
Scumteam is just Ari/RCE/GCB the end

[mastina]

I only need to make sure Mastina is convinced you are scum.

To be fair this is true regardless of your alignment as it's pretty damn clear right now that I'm basically the linchpin of the game; the town's fate revolves around me and my decision/choice.

If I make the wrong choice, the town loses; if I make the right choice, the town almost certainly snowballs into a victory.

So regardless of your alignment, you basically need me. If you're scum you need me to help get the final town elim and cement me as the ultimate town loser; if you're town you need me to eliminate scum today and use that momentum to kill the rest.

I DO think that the evidence is fairly strong towards you being town who needs me to eliminate scum but obviously I'm not absolutely sure yet, which is why there's still more work to be done.

So if I'm sitting on two votes and not elimmed yet the team is norwee/t3/+1 the easy answer is dwlee is the third with the voting pattern of dwlee/norwee lining up all game but a pain on me makes this slightly less likely.

For the record, I'm pretty sure that the ONLY viable scumteam for Norwee would basically be exactly this; if it was Norwee + T3 + Dwlee and Titus was not in fact crazy and the thought of her being such was largely a scum narrative.

Norwee is absolutely not scum with Datisi. (Their interactions game-long pretty definitively prove this.)
I am town so Norwee can't be scum with me.
Norwee is not scum with RCE.
While Norwee isn't as sure not-scum with Aristeia, it's still pretty damn likely he's not especially given he briefly voted her to L-2 here.

Ergo, the one and only way Norwee is scum is if the scumteam is in fact exactly Norwee + T3 + Dwlee.

I'm like 95% sure that's not the scumteam. But I need to get that final 5% as it makes the difference.

If the scumteam cannot have Norwee in it, then that makes the possible scumteam pool even smaller than it already was.

It's something I can explain more and number crunch more on but the best way to deal with this is for me to actually reread the game. (Which I don't have the time to do

now

, but will have soon enough.)

[Dwlee99]

Well I know that isn't the scum team

[mastina]

scum!her could be pushing it because being tunnelled on a single town player is a great way to look busy as scum, and everyone will go "haha that's mastina"
that's what i need you to explain to me - how can you tell between town and scum her there? what about that push is her town meta and couldn't be coming from her as scum?

Well, scumastina is disinclined to tunnel, in general.
It's not like she can't; she has. It's just fairly rare and usually had a fairly obvious reason. (One reason to tunnel is to make the town think a TvS argument is TvT, thereby discrediting a town player that I as scum tunnel on who may have an accurate read on me. Another reason to tunnel is if the tunnel is not in fact faked due to possible multiball. Yet a third reason to tunnel is to, quite simply, avoid bussing by voting a town player and having accurate townreads/scumreads aside from the one player I list as scum who is town and my vote, and/or to frame the player I tunneled as scum by virtue of the tunnel lacking conviction to it so people think it was a bus. Basically, the third reason for a tunnel is to avoid any incriminating associatives that out my buddies and lay false incriminating associatives on town players after I inevitably flip scum because scumastina always knows she fundamentally cannot reach endgame.)

But beyond that, there's something scumastina has never done in a tunnel:

Explained the tunnel after the fact with her thought process, logic used, etc. She has never, after leading a mislim, been able to explain the push on that mislim after the fact, because how could she?

But as town I have had to do this almost every game I've played, due to me being...well, me. I push town a lot. I contribute to the elimination of town a lot. Never intentionally, obviously, but it still

happens

. And yet there was always an underlying reason, an underlying belief, behind the ultimately-incorrect push and remorse at having gotten it wrong and fear that the people who I got wrong will hold it against me, fear that I will continue to be wrong, fear that I will be the worst-performing member of the town, fear that I will cost the town the game, and a drive to right the prior wrong.

I can't fake that as scum; how could I?

Here's another thing though. I don't think Ari is scum with RCE.

Why? What interactions make them unpairable when both of their slots have had buddy-buddy interactions previously?

[mastina]

To be is to do - Plato
To do is to be - Jean Paul Sartre
Do be do be do - Frank Sinatra

I'll raise you one better:
Scoo-be Doo-be Doo (where are you).

Well I know that isn't the scum team

And I know the team isn't Norwee-T3-mastina.

If you know the team isn't Norwee-T3-Dwlee and I know the team isn't Norwee-T3-mastina, can we collectively agree that the only way for Norwee to be scum is if the other is scum and if the other is not scum that Norwee is town?

[Dwlee99]

I can elaborate on Ari a different time I think.

Mmm I might be worried scum bus here to muddle associatives. Do you think Norwee/Ari/RCE is possible, for instance? Just spitballing here.

[Aristeia]

I know I'm town so I know that RCE can't be scum because I literally can't find two partners for RCE.

Can you give me two partners for RCE that make sense given that I know I'm town?

[Aristeia]

Highly doubt RCE/Norwee are scum/scum because bussing is very suboptimal in a nightless elo

[Aristeia]

I could read this game and put effort into it.

However I saw where that got the previous town players who tried to steer towards other areas.

They were simply ignored, shouted down and murdered.

I have no interest in putting effort into this game as fmpov this is almost certainly lost as town players refuse to see basic reason and instead listen to someone who is just shouting "rce scum".

[NorwegianboyEE]

I have no interest in putting effort into this game as fmpov this is almost certainly lost as town players refuse to see basic reason and instead listen to someone who is just shouting "rce scum".

Aww boo hoo Aristeia. Cry me a river.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can we lim scum now?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m over with this whining, i’m just so over it.
Pulling the plug on RCE is so fricking hard because he is scum here, anyone should be able ro see it.

[Aristeia]

at this point you are just open-wolfing because you believe the win is very close and easy for you to get.

I think this implies Mastina town as there's no reason for you to be so confident with no movement from Dwlee or Datisi.


VOTE: NorwegianBoy


I don't have any confidence she will be able to exit this pocket as she hasn't really listened to any town players this game at all so I'm going to just stop trying at this point.

You can have fun gloating all you want.

[Aristeia]

I’m over with this whining, i’m just so over it.
Pulling the plug on RCE is so fricking hard because he is scum here, anyone should be able ro see it.

This doesn't even make any sense for Town!You to say.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Whichever of Datisi/Dwlee is scum here, you’ll probably just be better off bussing RCE/Aristeia because this is just getting embarrassing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Look at that high WIM from supposed town!RCE that went bowling the moment he got wagoned/scumread. And Aristeia swooping in like an shiny knight in armour to save their frozen scum partner.

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

votey 3.15

RCEnigma (2):

T3, NorwegianboyEE

NorwegianboyEE (2):

RCEnigma, Aristeia

not voting (3):

Green Cap Boys, Dwlee99, mastina

with 7 alive, it takes 4 to sqump. day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-09-08 13:20:00)

modorator notes

• seeking replacement for potion

[Aristeia]

Your entire analysis of the game state is criminally flawed in many respects.

You claim that the scum have decided to push Mastina in for Elo win - however neither I nor RCE, whom you have been slamming as "lockscum" have even pushed Mastina at all.

The only people who have expressed interest in Mastina's elim[Datisi/Dwlee], happen to be the people you are

appealing

to for votes to slam RCE out of the game - a slip of perspective that is inconsistent.

When called on logic/reasoning, you default to shitpushing and repeating "RCE scum" over and over again and complain he's not dead yet.

I think if anyone were to actually take the time to read what you are doing, they would realize you are doing a last ditch push for the win.

You are more or less depending on a demoralized town that has not hit a single scum to be ambivalent and allow you to push through this final mis-elimination.

You express

extreme

confidence in Mastina's "Towni-ness" despite multiple mis-elim pushes from her slot.

The only people who are

that

confident at Elo about someone's towniness like that are scum - for they know who the town are and they know who they are pocketing.

White-knighting at Elo establishes thread control for you in the Mastina!Town scenario - you can either direct her to push someone, or if someone town votes for her, you can always hammer after your teammates get on board the wagon. Either way she is like a shield for you.

I think it's quite clever how you played this game, using Mastina to push out town player after town player - it's almost like hitching a ride on a bus as it runs people over one after another - you've more or less hidden in her blind spot as it's fairly easy to pocket her by "locktowning" her and letting her play the game in single player mode.

[Aristeia]

Whichever of Datisi/Dwlee is scum here, you’ll probably just be better off bussing RCE/Aristeia because this is just getting embarrassing.

again just 0 content shitpushing.

He can't actually address the logic because he knows he doesn't have anything

[NorwegianboyEE]

That’s a lot of words from someone that barely cared about the game and just went "Look at me Datisi-senpai!" until RCE wagon hit too close to home.

[Aristeia]

Look at that high WIM from supposed town!RCE that went bowling the moment he got wagoned/scumread. And Aristeia swooping in like an shiny knight in armour to save their frozen scum partner.

If I were scum I would just tell him how to fight you in the scum PT.

I never directly interfere with my scum partners fights.

also RCE has posted more content than you have today,

99% of what you've posted is basically

"Mastina so 100000% town"

"RCE 100000% scum kill him"

repeated over and over again.

Your only bit of actual logic was a game state read that was criminally faked.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You express extreme confidence in Mastina's "Towni-ness" despite multiple mis-elim pushes from her slot.

You still pushing this line? Mastina is undoubtedly town because all my experience with their slot and 100% correct read rate in past games tell me so.

[Aristeia]

That’s a lot of words from someone that barely cared about the game and just went "Look at me Datisi-senpai!" until RCE wagon hit too close to home.

If RCE was my scumpartner and frozen in headlights I would've coached him on how to respond to you.

If he's unable to follow basic instructions I would just bus him.

I only care because I'm fairly sure this is going to end in a scum win if he gets flipped.

If I'm the only player on the townside who cares enough to even try to stop you then we just lose and it is what it is.

[Aristeia]

You express extreme confidence in Mastina's "Towni-ness" despite multiple mis-elim pushes from her slot.

You still pushing this line? Mastina is undoubtedly town because all my experience with their slot and 100% correct read rate in past games tell me so.

You've seen Mastina!town push multiple mis-elims in the past? One after another?