Newbie 2076 [Game Over]

[StrangeMatter]

I don’t think this has any meaning since both PRs are out, but I am a VT. You can vote me Ythan, but you will get NKed with eliminating me today.

[StrangeMatter]

That is what I know for sure. And if you think I’m just scum bluffing then in the end it doesn’t matter since if I hammer myself or you do we will never get anything from this.

[Ythan]

You can vote me Ythan, but you will get NKed with eliminating me today.

This strikes me as a weird comment.

[MargotRosa]

or i can VOTE: strange

It's impossible to tell if you're a flip flopping scum or just committed to ending the game out of sheer boredom lol.

[MargotRosa]

I mean, much less likely in my mind than Strange, just frustrated that T3 is committed to muddying the waters as much as possible in the last couple days

[PenguinPower]

Vote Count 3.3

StrangeMatter

(3): MargotRosa, GrandpaMo, T3

MargotRosa

(1): Roden

T3

(1): StrangeMatter

Not Voting

(1): Ythan

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-09-07 20:30:30)

[StrangeMatter]

Grandpa why do you think Margot is town? Do you think he tries to NK the Tracker N1 if he believes I softed Doctor?

honestly it doesnt matter. i dont want strange in a f3 regardless -- i feel like we always vote t3 over strange tomorrow if margot is town today

I’d like for you to explain why you don’t want me in the final 3? Also, what was your night 1 track if you’re tracker

[StrangeMatter]

Air quotes on tracker there

[Ythan]

As town I had a different reaction to the recent claim. Your response does not fill me with confidence.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa why do you think Margot is town? Do you think he tries to NK the Tracker N1 if he believes I softed Doctor?

honestly it doesnt matter. i dont want strange in a f3 regardless -- i feel like we always vote t3 over strange tomorrow if margot is town today

I’d like for you to explain why you don’t want me in the final 3? Also, what was your night 1 track if you’re tracker

I already explained and the person I had checked -- which clasko did submit a night action for but I believe they replaced -- I kept it. It was alstro visited ythan, the "tracker" claim. That's why no one died at night. Scum targeted Ythan, and Alstro saved them. That's why I claimed doc lmfao. because I knew alstro would come out. im so big brain. Night 2, visited ythan, didint visit anyone. Anyways, you still being weary on my tracker claim, is def weird. I am hard claiming it here just look at Ythan's comments about Clasko. There was even a whole interaction happening with T3. You second guessed yourself in 450, it was a joke. ive played with hockey (know them personally) many times to know he fakeclaims A LOT as town.

anyways ur just outted scum. i think we win the game by voting u. hammer this ythan.

[GrandpaMo]

ythan listen to me, you will be the only confirmed in the f3 if strange is town which i doubt.

but just in case, iso t3 and if they act serious half way vote them out LOL .

jkjk, even tho its like a good scumtell, both ppl have good towncreds on them. margot had been scumread lq by eod and vice versa while t3 hammered lq by accident? scum t3 could do this. margot is being paranoid bout t3 being scum, probably could be a tell for setting up a chain lim since they know strange is flipping scum. but this talk doesnt need to come until day 4. which we are in a rare instance of!!! newd3 setups usuaully end by day 3. but knowing this game have gotten by this long, it means a lot to me personally. anyways bye bye

[GrandpaMo]

wait....


ythan will die >> because its optimal to always nc day 4 in a world of evens. so nc day 4 >> we will be led to a f3 in day 5.

[GrandpaMo]

unless ythan doesnt have to die. the only time ythan doesnt die if scum can presudae / use ythan as a vote goat, and make scum vote with them. there is a chance where roden dies as well. anwyays its good info regardless by nciing

[GrandpaMo]

i feel like we always vote t3 over strange tomorrow if margot is town today

is that not good enough explanation?

[Roden]

Should I just post intent to hammer? I don't think it makes sense for Strange to be scum here, but I don't think I can convince you guys on my logic wrt the NK and I want to avoid a no-elim.

[Ythan]

I'll try to review your thoughts on that again but don't wait longer than you're comfortable if you can't be here right up to the deadline.

[Ythan]

Oh right I'm not voting. I'll be around.

[MargotRosa]

Big stream of consciousness post coming. Apologies if the rambliness gets in the way of comprehension too much

[MargotRosa]

So here’s one significant part of why I am convinced that Strange is the last scum, specifically the interactions between them and LQ on d1.

Rereading, their exchanges read so much like scum becoming increasingly frustrated by their partner and the overt scum tells he was giving off.

The dynamic that played out here, if it is between two Scum, is a pretty common pattern I’ve seen IRL. Obviously don’t have the experience of forum format to say whether or not it carries over, but I imagine it would to some extent.

The dynamic in question is when someone is when you have a scum pair, and one of the two is clearly giving off massive scum tells. Even if it’s not necessarily crystal clear for town, it’s clear for the other scum, because they know to look for the tells in the first place.

Generally, when I’ve seen it, it plays out in two phases. At first, there is genuine attempts to subtly deflect away from the scumminess of their partner. It’s always fraught, because if you lean in too hard, you become an obvious target for elimination in later days, so it has to be subtle. Where it really starts to show itself is not even necessarily the person doing the deflection, but in the perceptible differences in the way that their partner interacts with them.

In a d1 that was notable for just how wildly defensive LQ was getting about even the slightest hint of a scum read on him, basically the only slot that did not almost immediately spur instant defensiveness was from Astra/Strange.

Here's some posts, with some brief notes. Hope you can piece together the narrative I'm presenting here. Feeling a bit under the weather, so best I can do under the circumstances. Far from exhaustive. Tried to leave out stuff that could count but may also be very dubious.

Examples of defensiveness in response to:
Roden – 36 38 39
T3 – 125 173
Alstro – 132 146
Me – 144 156 317
Me and T3 – 150
Defensiveness tell in general (which had not been brought up by Astra/Strange slot) – 154 182

LQ responding in a less heated way to Astra/Strange presenting guarded SRs of him:
59 60 68

Back and forth between Strange and LQ (one example of a few, not much evidence of this happening with LQ and other players):
285 292 298 328

Mopre exchanges oin which he and Strange are, on some level (intended or not) backing one another up:
253 284

Literally first time LQ says something that can be even construed as testy towards the Astra/Strange slot is 342 when he tells Strange never to vote for a slot just for info.

Incidentally, is 342 a smoking gun? Does NP stand for night play, and LQ thought he was messaging in scum chat?) Strange’s response 344 is maybe the most obviously irritated I’ve seen them in game (though entirely possibly because it was a brisque way to address them irrespective of whether they were doing it to divert attention from LQ.)

LQ does vote for Strange in 349, but I don’t buy it tbh. It’s a really half-hearted dig.

I know this is very based in emotiion, but that was literally how we tagged LQ in the first place. Makes sense that their interactions might also reveal who his team member was.

[MargotRosa]

Went through ISOs of Roden and T3, and I'll save you the whole shebang, but I just don't think it's them. I know I'm Town. In my mind, it can only be Strange.

[T3]

So here’s one significant part of why I am convinced that Strange is the last scum, specifically the interactions between them and LQ on d1.

Rereading, their exchanges read so much like scum becoming increasingly frustrated by their partner and the overt scum tells he was giving off.

The dynamic that played out here, if it is between two Scum, is a pretty common pattern I’ve seen IRL. Obviously don’t have the experience of forum format to say whether or not it carries over, but I imagine it would to some extent.

The dynamic in question is when someone is when you have a scum pair, and one of the two is clearly giving off massive scum tells. Even if it’s not necessarily crystal clear for town, it’s clear for the other scum, because they know to look for the tells in the first place.

Generally, when I’ve seen it, it plays out in two phases. At first, there is genuine attempts to subtly deflect away from the scumminess of their partner. It’s always fraught, because if you lean in too hard, you become an obvious target for elimination in later days, so it has to be subtle. Where it really starts to show itself is not even necessarily the person doing the deflection, but in the perceptible differences in the way that their partner interacts with them.

In a d1 that was notable for just how wildly defensive LQ was getting about even the slightest hint of a scum read on him, basically the only slot that did not almost immediately spur instant defensiveness was from Astra/Strange.

Here's some posts, with some brief notes. Hope you can piece together the narrative I'm presenting here. Feeling a bit under the weather, so best I can do under the circumstances. Far from exhaustive. Tried to leave out stuff that could count but may also be very dubious.

Examples of defensiveness in response to:
Roden – 36 38 39
T3 – 125 173
Alstro – 132 146
Me – 144 156 317
Me and T3 – 150
Defensiveness tell in general (which had not been brought up by Astra/Strange slot) – 154 182

LQ responding in a less heated way to Astra/Strange presenting guarded SRs of him:
59 60 68

Back and forth between Strange and LQ (one example of a few, not much evidence of this happening with LQ and other players):
285 292 298 328

Mopre exchanges oin which he and Strange are, on some level (intended or not) backing one another up:
253 284

Literally first time LQ says something that can be even construed as testy towards the Astra/Strange slot is 342 when he tells Strange never to vote for a slot just for info.

Incidentally, is 342 a smoking gun? Does NP stand for night play, and LQ thought he was messaging in scum chat?) Strange’s response 344 is maybe the most obviously irritated I’ve seen them in game (though entirely possibly because it was a brisque way to address them irrespective of whether they were doing it to divert attention from LQ.)

LQ does vote for Strange in 349, but I don’t buy it tbh. It’s a really half-hearted dig.

I know this is very based in emotiion, but that was literally how we tagged LQ in the first place. Makes sense that their interactions might also reveal who his team member was.

VOTE: strange
This post is very towny.

[StrangeMatter]

So I'm just going to be saying this again since it's somewhat relevant but in my personal experience trying to actually catch scum with partner often ends up leading into Town making many, many mistakes over the course of a single game. My first game had this exact problem, where Town read into interactions where Lukewarm (scum) interacted with multiple people. I just feel like that partners is undeniably the most inconsistent way to catch scum and scum plays around this by dragging down town when they die as well.

[StrangeMatter]

Went through ISOs of Roden and T3, and I'll save you the whole shebang, but I just don't think it's them. I know I'm Town. In my mind, it can only be Strange.

Well you can just take my word for this since scum is either you or in your TRs since I know you're certainly wrong this. Also, it feels like you haven't really said anything about T3 and that pivot in particular feels like you at the point couldn't make much of a case on T3 as scum and then switched to voting me.

[T3]

or i can VOTE: strange

It's impossible to tell if you're a flip flopping scum or just committed to ending the game out of sheer boredom lol.

Sheer boredom.

[MargotRosa]

So I'm just going to be saying this again since it's somewhat relevant but in my personal experience trying to actually catch scum with partner often ends up leading into Town making many, many mistakes over the course of a single game. My first game had this exact problem, where Town read into interactions where Lukewarm (scum) interacted with multiple people. I just feel like that partners is undeniably the most inconsistent way to catch scum and scum plays around this by dragging down town when they die as well.

I would normally agree with you, but in this instance we have a scum who was making very obvious mistakes and tells throughout d1. I'm just making the point that, given scum completely showed their hand d1, it makes some sense to look to that again when looking at interactions