mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

[Dwlee99]

Why can't datisi be scum with t3/norwee @mastina?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I would not engage with Retti the way i have if i was SvS with them.
I’m not THAT mean that i’ll bully my own scum partner out from the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Me and Retti having an shitfight that leads to one part of that hydra replacing out from the game is so anti-associative that if you argue it’s somehow indicative of scum/scum i am going to question your intelligence.

[Dwlee99]

I don't like when replace outs function as alignment-indicative information

[Dwlee99]

Regardless though I think I'm just waiting for mastina to prove to me she isn't evil

[NorwegianboyEE]

What does it take for you?
Doing an handstand and typing Shakespeares works backwards to prove you’re town?

[Aristeia]

You've, repeatedly, said you don't care.
And yet your dead serious posting and extreme effort say otherwise.

Every time you say one thing, but do another. You say you don't care, that you're done, but then you put in more effort, which shows that you do.

Why the seriousness?

Why the sudden devotion to giving this game 100%?

because I have bad self control and NorwegianBoy keeps taunting me by spamming the thread full of nonsense.

because every time I re-read the ISOs of our dead townie friends I get more upset that they went through LITERALLY THE SAME THING IM GOING THROUGH NOW AND NOBODY LISTENED TO THEM

I should've stopped caring a while ago and just accepted the loss by now but I must be a glutton for suffering because im still here repeating the same thing to you and the rest of the town that they didnt listen to.

Titus thought Norwee+T3+Dwlee were scum together

They all voted her out. You said Titus was town, they ignored your townread and voted her out. - Why does Norwee do that when he seems to REALLY BELIEVE IN YOUR TOWNREAD TODAY???

Limit was convinced Norwee was a baddie and that his vote was oppurtunistic and that the game was lost because nobody suspected Norwee. T3 was Limit's top choice for being voted out.

Norwee/T3 voted Limit out. Dwlee hammered it.


I don't care about "associatives"

Words MEAN NOTHING in mafia - it's all theatre and nonsense - look at VOTES and who voted to kill who.

The people who suspected Norwee/T3 happen to get voted out - by Norwee/T3/Dwlee.

Read what Norwee said about these people as he shitpushed them out.

They are the exact same things he's saying about me.

no logic.

Just "____ is scum because I said so"

[Dwlee99]

Norwee you still haven't provided any evidence that you and t3 aren't partnered and Mastina's reasons for that were bad.

[Aristeia]

I realize it's not impossible for a scumteam of Norwee and T3 to, collectively, have concocted a grand scheme:
Deliberately try to completely and totally snow me with planning as to specifically how to fool me, while planning how to make fluid interactions, planning on defending each other and giving one another the exact resources necessary in order to coordinate a natural-looking progression where they end up townreading each other. That's something which COULD happen, but if it happened, they basically pulled it off flawlessly and effortlessly and it was a complete success, worthy of a hats-off nod, tip of respect, for their planning to have pulled off that elaborate juke, that elaborate deception, to misdirect everyone except for Titus and get Titus out D1.

But while it's possible.

It doesn't look probable.

Mastina just read what Norwe/T3 did to Titus and SS on D1/D2.

They literally killed the people who were scumreading them.

They have the motive

They have the ability.

Why

WOULDN'T

they do it?

It's not like they are getting CAUGHT for it since apparently you still believe them and that's ALL they need to win.

Because you're town and as long as ONE TOWN player refuses to believe Norwee/T3 are scum here, they win the game.

That's it

that's the entire game right there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee you still haven't provided any evidence that you and t3 aren't partnered and Mastina's reasons for that were bad.

I’ll hold you responsible for costing town the game if you can’t be convinced by valid argumentation, because Mastina’s posts were solid.

[NorwegianboyEE]

They have the motive

They have the ability.

You’ve literally never played with scum!me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is what happens when the meta!bad players are allowed to live until ElO.
Tragic.

[Aristeia]

Btw another thing I just did.
I just did a scan of Norwee's first three pages of iso searching for T3.

Though Norwee never voted T3 and the only push against T3 could in fact fit as scum distancing, the Norwee interactions with T3 look incredibly not-scum-scum. They look incredibly fluid, natural, and not scumbuddyish. While Norwee's interactions with T3 could come from scum interacting with a town player (as in, Norwee is scum, T3 isn't), that runs into the issue of who Norwee would be scum with as he cannot be scum with Datisi and is almost definitely not scum with RCE.

It's obviously possible that the interactions which don't look scum-scum are in fact, in spite of their appearance of not being scum-scum, actually scum-scum. But this is not how I would expect Norwee to interact with a scumbuddy. Norwee being House's scumbuddy was immediately obvious to me in Open Draft Mafia when I was doing team-crafting work. I could tell it from what he was posting that he was scum with House once House was known to be scum.

Yet here his interactions with T3 look nothing like his interactions with House in that game. Now, admittedly, Norwee's interactions with T3 this game are closer to Norwee's interactions with his other scumbuddy Dwlee in that game, but while the Norwee-Dwlee from that game is closer to the Norwee-T3 of this game the interactions still don't fully match and are still something that looks different.

People don't have to play each game the same way.

T3/Norwe never really voted or pushed for each other from a skim of their ISO.

They have been defending each other by voting out people who suspected/wanted them dead.

Like Titus on D1.

and SS on D2.

T3 has been vocal about his townread of Norw, Norw has been "poeing T3" but never led a vote or push there.

Everything he does with respect to T3 is performative and not real.

Even today I remember he flipped on T3 back and forth in a very fake manner.

[Aristeia]

This is what happens when the meta!bad players are allowed to live until ElO.
Tragic.

you've done a pretty good job of killing people who said you are scum on d1/d2.

I'm the last one left and if you kill me today then you're going to win 3/3 and this town is literally the worst I've ever played with

[NorwegianboyEE]

Apparently we don’t count RCE as an human being anymore.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So i heard you like AtE, well lemme introduce you to someone…

[mastina]

If scum has a deepwolf it's likely Mastina.

(btw this doesn't really support RCE/Ari's narrative that Norwee was lying about scum thinking I'd be an easy misyeet today as RCE DID display this thought on D2. It was more reinforced than not in 2204, too.)

I didn't use my 1 pain potion on Night 2 because I literally just replaced in and I didn't know what to do with it.

D2 ended at Post #2425 Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:55 pm.

Which places this as your last post on D2 by my math.

You had 16 posts over 16 pages to get the chance to.

Butyeah, I do not believe there's zero scum in {Bingle, TLDNE, Fairy Circle}.

FWIW, I absolutely believe there are 1-2 scum in these three names. I’d 100% be behind eliminating either me or FC and paining exclusively in the other two tonight, with reevaluations on a scum flip. This leaves us with an exceedingly low chance for the scum team to win outright tonight (we’d presumably be flipping scum and even if somehow that’s three town names we’d be paining people that overlap with the potential pool of players that have already lost hp.

I would argue that I shouldn’t be pained on an FC scumflip, but it’s not a hill I’d die on.

This was mechanics talk in that time. (Speaking of which,

where is the second pain potion on Fairy Circle?

Nobody to my knowledge has claimed to have shot the second shot at them to kill them. Sounds like the job for scum who claim to have taken no action N2 then...)

If someone lol hammers us then please send every pain potion on the planet toward them. Then execute T3.
-S

If you didn't want to follow Bingle's plan you could have followed this as there was in fact an effective lolhammer on TLDNE, and you could have pain potioned T3.

Yet you didn't follow Bingle's plan (or so you say at least) and you didn't follow TLDNE's plan. Which you can't claim you didn't see, either, because:

I just iso'd Limit and F4'd for T3 and its like all over the place. I don't really understand the progression from T3 town, t3 NAI, t3 i dont know to T3 is lockscum lets kill him?

You read their posts with T3 in them, and 2245 had a mention of T3, so you were aware of at the very least what The Limit Does Not Exist, our flipped town on D2, wanted for a plan of pain potion night actions.

Yet you're claiming you didn't know how to use your pain potion in spite of having seen 2245 in your TLDNE iso?

It is XLO if there is damage done on three town, scum have 3 pain pots, no town jk/doc a no target, AND no scum die tonight. If we eliminate someone who has been pained, it drops the odds of one or three. Scum having three pain pots split between their members remaining isn’t a sure thing by any means.

This is another reason for the Limit elimination btw. And another reason I've focused on {Limit, Bingle, Fairy Circle}.

TLDNE is the best elimination for the game and it's not just because I think that they are the slot with the highest chance of being scum; they are also the slot I genuinely think gives the town the most information regardless of their flip (with Bingle and Fairy Circle a close second/third) in that regard as well as one of the slots we lose the least from eliminating (in that it removes a potential scum wincon even if they are town).

And I also was posting plans for pain potions as well.

You're saying you didn't know how to use your pain potion in spite of

no less than three

slots giving options on what to do N2 with them?

Consider me skeptical of your claim of ignorance to usage of pain potions.

I legitimately think that the claim of no pain potion N2 and having a pain potion to use now is genuinely a scumclaim.

[Aristeia]

I realize that if Norwee and T3 are scum we live in a world where they happened to enact the perfect plan they needed in order to get a chance at winning, somehow having either concocted it perfectly or having lucked out in it being the perfect plan or a bit of both. But they did need to have basically absolute luck, absolute perfect planning, and/or some combination of luck/planning in order to have left so little evidence behind.

In my games there is re-assessment on D3 if the town hasn't hit scum yet.

People look at who has been in control of the game and look at who they have killed.

It just happens that in this setup we are literally at Elo on D3.

That usually doesn't happen, usually D3 is 1 day before Elo.

This is the perfect game for power-wolfing openly because as long as you keep one townie pocketed you can win the game at early Elo.

Think about it Mastina, you said it yourself.

You are basically impossible to push for scum and you can 1v1 anyone at Elo.

So why did the scum not shoot you with a poison potion?

Why did they keep you alive the entire time?

Because you've been in Norwe's pocket the ENTIRE GAME and his entire plan is to keep you there and if you don't change your mind HE WINS

[mastina]

PAIN
if limit is town

Make that four slots at minimum. (Might be more than 4, obviously, if I missed some slots' plans but suffice to say: there were in fact people saying how to use potions for N2.)

[Aristeia]

PAIN
if limit is town

Make that four slots at minimum. (Might be more than 4, obviously, if I missed some slots' plans but suffice to say: there were in fact people saying how to use potions for N2.)

Pain who?

There's no coordination at all.

If I had pained RCE we would have ALREADY LOST THE FREAKING GAME TODAY

[Aristeia]

I am replacing in cold to a slot and all I know is we haven't hit a single scum and I have exactly one potion to use.

Why would I use it on N2 blind when I don't have a good grasp on the game?

[mastina]

Why can't datisi be scum with t3/norwee @mastina?

Game-long interactions with both halves of the slot.

Iso Norwee and see his GCB treatment. Check also for Datisi and Retti for good measure as he addresses them by both of those names at times.

Iso GCB and search 'norw' and see their treatment of him the whole game.

They're definitively not scumbuddies. Like, 100%, cannot be scumbuddies. I'm more sure of Norwee-Datisi not being scumbuddies than I am of any other pair's chances. Norwee's chance of being scum are even higher with RCE (a slot he's unlikely to be scum with) than Datisi. Heck I'd buy a Norwee-Ari cross-bus before I'd buy a Norwee-Datisi scumteam.

Basically, Norwee and GCB's interactions just have a sort of relationship that just...isn't scum. Period. Not "is unlikely to be scum". Just isn't scum. I fundamentally can't see it as possible scum.

So the options for Norwee-scum are:
Norwee bussed RCE (unlikely) + someone else;
Norwee is bussing Aristeia (unlikely) + someone else;
Norwee is scum with you + T3 (possible, but the evidence overall points away from this imo).

Words MEAN NOTHING in mafia - it's all theatre and nonsense - look at VOTES and who voted to kill who.
The people who suspected Norwee/T3 happen to get voted out - by Norwee/T3/Dwlee.

Yeah the problem with this is that town can be suspicious of town and when a town player sees a competent player suspicious of them they have this bad habit of doing a thing we call OMGUSing by doing a burden of proficiency on the town player wrongly scumreading them and thinking that the player scumreading them (in spite of being town) must be scum.

And scum have no incentive to actively vote out town if town are voting out town on their own without the help of the scum.

Bingle vs. Fairy Circle was TvT and dominant.
Limit was a third part of that TvTvT fight.

Bingle flipping town didn't make Fairy Circle be scum, and vice versa, in spite of both slots being convinced the other was scum.

So when there's proven cases of town suspecting town and being wrong about it, and mutually so:
What makes Dwlee + T3 + Norwee not be town wrong about town, with Titus (and to a lesser extent Limit) be wrong about them?

Because you said so?
The very argument you're saying Norwee is using?

[Aristeia]

I legitimately think that the claim of no pain potion N2 and having a pain potion to use now is genuinely a scumclaim.

this just makes me pull my hair out.

You dont think pain potions are MORE VALUABLE now that we have CLEARLY DRAWN SIDES post ELO standoff?

You think it was better for me to throw a poison out yesterday?

Like WHY?

Now I know Norwe is scum 100% and I can poison him.

If he gets the yeet through on RCE I can throw a posion on norwee in the night and if any other townie had saved a poison they could also throw a poison on norwe and we could easily mount a comeback at 5 alive.

That's probly the reason Norwe changed vote from RCE to me actually.

He knows we're functionally the same to him but I have a pain potion whereas RCE has said he has no potions left. He'd rather vote out the townie screaming she's going to pain pot him rather than the townie who is unarmed.

[Aristeia]

Yeah the problem with this is that town can be suspicious of town and when a town player sees a competent player suspicious of them they have this bad habit of doing a thing we call OMGUSing by doing a burden of proficiency on the town player wrongly scumreading them and thinking that the player scumreading them (in spite of being town) must be scum.

Everything you say is based in your assumption that norwee is town.


Why can't you accept the fact that you might just be wrong here and Titus/SS might just be right?


Who is more

likely

to omgus back and kill people?

Who is more

MOTIVATED

to omgus back and kill the people who are suspecting them?

A townie or a scum?

Townies don't gain anything by omgusing their fellow townies.

Do you see anything in Norwe's iso that suggests he was trying to sort Titus/SS in good faith?

To figure out if they suspected him because they were town?

His push on them was extremely bad faith and he basically just shouted them down with "____ is scum because I said so"

You have to look at the results Mastina.

It's not about who you want to be town.

It's about who's actually bad.

[Aristeia]

Whereas the comparatively simple answer is:
Two players look town this game because they are town.

or you are just wrong?

You know you can be wrong right?

Like I know you are a very strong willed person who is convinced she is right and I love you for being so confident but like sometimes you're just wrong?

Just give Titus a chance

Give SS and Lilith a chance.

They deserve that at least no?

They've poured so much into this game screaming that Norwee/T3 are scumbags.

Do they get any say in this game's outcome at all?

Yes bingle/FC were wrong about each other.

but that doesn't mean every dead townie was wrong about every read in the game