Large normal 236 [Game over]

[DkKoba]

fair enuff

[NorwegianboyEE]

Me and Nero Cain share a common trait. Who can guess what it is.

[Rannygazoo]

You’re both handsome young lads?

[DkKoba]

Totally missed the game start, and have 27 pages to catch up on. I'll do that over the weekend as I have work today and won't catch up all together.

But the last page and a half I quickly glanced over, I have always thought activity is generally NAI. Majority of the games that I have participated in, a lot of the time the low key posters that I have seen eliminated have been town. But yeah, I do agree that it's hard to get a read on players who haven't been active a lot and could be lurking, but there's a difference between lurking and being non active.

I will promise to catch up all together over the weekend and will start to perform once I'm fully up to speed.

was wondering why kop wasnt prodded but it turned out he only posted this and dipped lmao
not inspiring confidence that he will be town

[DkKoba]

Me and Nero Cain share a common trait. Who can guess what it is.

[Rannygazoo]

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

I do not vibe with this. I don’t think Norwee has enough towncred to make demands like this.

But prove me wrong. Why should we wagon Kyo, aside from Koba’s intuition for meta? I can’t read her by myself since all she’s done is talk about catching up, followed by a whole lot of not catching up. I just don’t like to vote based on someone else’s vibes unless I have nothing better to go on.

[DkKoba]

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

I do not vibe with this. I don’t think Norwee has enough towncred to make demands like this.

But prove me wrong. Why should we wagon Kyo, aside from Koba’s intuition for meta? I can’t read her by myself since all she’s done is talk about catching up, followed by a whole lot of not catching up. I just don’t like to vote based on someone else’s vibes unless I have nothing better to go on.

I gave him a loan + I echo his post

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

I do not vibe with this. I don’t think Norwee has enough towncred to make demands like this.

But prove me wrong. Why should we wagon Kyo, aside from Koba’s intuition for meta? I can’t read her by myself since all she’s done is talk about catching up, followed by a whole lot of not catching up. I just don’t like to vote based on someone else’s vibes unless I have nothing better to go on.

Then how about i bring up why voting Dwlee is an mistake because he is town and we're supposed to vote mafia, not town?

[LicketyQuickety]

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

I do not vibe with this. I don’t think Norwee has enough towncred to make demands like this.

But prove me wrong. Why should we wagon Kyo, aside from Koba’s intuition for meta? I can’t read her by myself since all she’s done is talk about catching up, followed by a whole lot of not catching up. I just don’t like to vote based on someone else’s vibes unless I have nothing better to go on.

Then how about i bring up why voting Dwlee is an mistake because he is town and we're supposed to vote mafia, not town?

Why is Dwlee Town? They don't seem Town to me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If the rest of the town aren't good enough to catch scum by their tone and need more hard proof then the only other alternative is to prove why the other slots on the table are townier than the slot in question. This is especially useful, given that SSB is not currently present in the game.

[Rannygazoo]

I think you’re confusing “loud” with “town”

[Rannygazoo]

If the rest of the town aren't good enough to catch scum by their tone and need more hard proof then the only other alternative is to prove why the other slots on the table are townier than the slot in question. This is especially useful, given that SSB is not currently present in the game.

Yes, this is good. So is Koba’s advice of making a town block.

But Dwlee? Help me see it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

First of all, the point that: "Dwlee voted an slot that hasn't posted yet and that is cowardly" is a bad point because it's not even something that scum typically do in the first place, except maybe newb!scum that are afraid to ruffle people's feathers. But Dwlee is not newbscum, he is quite skilled at the game and both allignments.
Ask yourself, why would mafia vote an inactive slot? Mafia play to mislim town, and that means typically sheeping someone that has a better case or placing their vote on an already building wagon, or just lurking and trying to not put any attention on themselves. What Dwlee did fits neither of these traits.
MargotRosa also wasn't an wagon to begin with and nobody paid them any attention. It doesn't make much sense from an scum!POV.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It is much more likely that Dwlee voted Margot to provoke an reaction from Margot or the rest of the game and make it easier to read one of the slots that are in his PoE.

So either Dwlee is very good at faking an townie thought process or he is literally just town. Either way, a lot townier than many other slots on the table and that is why the big wagon on him is really bad because there are many slots that are so much more suspicious than for us to consider removing Dwlee now. As evidence points to him being town rather than scum, and even if he is scum then we're literally catching him for the wrong reasons because there is nothing scummy there.

[DkKoba]

couldn't have said it better myself.


also he voted a probscum slot before it was 100% apparent the slot was probscum, and maintained the vote and is the counterwagon to said scum slot.

[Rannygazoo]

That vote feels like forever ago. I could see scum doing something like that, even not newb scum, if it’s not strategic to vote an active wagon or a slot that will push back.

This is my first game with Dwlee, but I don’t see their every post as playing 420D chess the same way you do. How do you provoke a reaction from a slot that’s completely absent? Even if Margot eventually sees it, she will know that the vote means nothing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me put the question to you now Ranny.
What has SSB done that is towny? And is that town indicative evidence (if present at all), solid enough evidence to declare that Dwlee is an higher priority lim than them right now?

[DkKoba]

Let me put the question to you now Ranny.
What has SSB done that is towny? And is that town indicative evidence (if present at all), solid enough evidence to declare that Dwlee is an higher priority lim than them right now?

THIS

is the big kicker. I do understand a certain POV for it - but that requires a pretty complex playstyle which I dont think ranny has played enough to develop into.

[Loftwing]

First of all, the point that: "Dwlee voted an slot that hasn't posted yet and that is cowardly" is a bad point because it's not even something that scum typically do in the first place, except maybe newb!scum that are afraid to ruffle people's feathers. But Dwlee is not newbscum, he is quite skilled at the game and both allignments.
Ask yourself, why would mafia vote an inactive slot? Mafia play to mislim town, and that means typically sheeping someone that has a better case or placing their vote on an already building wagon, or just lurking and trying to not put any attention on themselves. What Dwlee did fits neither of these traits.
MargotRosa also wasn't an wagon to begin with and nobody paid them any attention. It doesn't make much sense from an scum!POV.

Let's go back to the VDM.
In the case of "Actions that both scum and town can take", poor scumplay is definitely on the list. It's clearly not effective towards the endgame, but it's meant to give yourself towncred, one of the other things that scum hope to achieve.
Yes, it will always be more likely that poor scumplay is from town, however unlike other actions that are null, this needs to be studied further, so that we can cultivate a larger body of evidence.

But let's put that aside. Maybe you don't accept that. Then how about this:
Dwlee didn't see a good wagon to hop on. Maybe it's through sheer luck that we voted all the scum, or maybe it's something else, but either way they didn't see a good wagon and needed to start a new one.
Typical Sheeping Mafia play doesn't work when all the options are bad.
As for lurking, I'm confident that there is at least 1 scum in the top posters right now. Take that as you will, but antilurking isn't exclusive to Town or Neutrals.
When you consider these points, you might see that there are any number of reasonable objections to why scum might not be playing typically.

p-edit:
Why are my posts always so long when I want to say something TwT

[DkKoba]

how does kyouko manage to everytime they post to pop in and comment on some shit that happened ages ago and never whats happening in the moment

btw this is something that strongly indicates scum kyouko ^ and in general you can read that game and see how avoidant kyouko is to acknowedging pressure at all when she is scum.

(also warning, deadpronons in the game bc kyouko hadn't announced their transition yet)

[Almost50]

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

+1

[NorwegianboyEE]

These are all conjunctions and whati-ifs from Loftwing and Ranny.

Sure it is possible that Dwlee is scum here. But by probablity it is an much lower chance than the mafia being someone else.
So yes, Dwlee could in theory have masterfully town!told as scum and is fooling us. But the possibility of that is much lower than the much more higher probability of scum being in the much more scummy slots.
Which is why it is the correct play to call out this Dwlee wagon as bad and lead us to an lim that is much better for town and that i believe flips scum.

[Rannygazoo]

Absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. I’m still on V/LA and ISO diving is inconvenient on mobile. But Kyo is on V/LA too. I want to see that end and have it be a little closer to end of day before I come to a conclusion. The louder players don’t want to do that, and I don’t take it as AI because maybe it’s just their personality. But I’m in no rush.

I could see an argument for voting Kyo over Dwlee because Dwlee is more active and will be easier to catch down the line. But that’s not really a fair comparison when one is on V/LA, right?

Dwlee may post a lot but— and maybe it’s just because I’m not used to them— they don’t seem to say much.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like they are struggling, either from insistence and wanting to believe they are right, or an defense of their partner. To continue calling Dwlee scum here despite the evidence pointing towards the contrary.

[DkKoba]

Oh god I forgot Salsabil Faria tried to call me scum by saying i was copying someone else's scum game in a game where *I* was scum in as well

hilarious moment.