Large normal 236 [Game over]

[NorwegianboyEE]

why mention it in the first place then?

Because i'm open about everything i am doing. Even if some of the finer details are classified.

[cool cookie]

maybe but to me, if someone says "I have really strong reasons for a player being town, to the point I will find it really hard to believe they are scum", and then can't substantiate it at all when probed, it looks fishy and at best doesn't have as much credibility as you would want it to.

[NorwegianboyEE]

maybe but to me, if someone says "I have really strong reasons for a player being town, to the point I will find it really hard to believe they are scum", and then can't substantiate it at all when probed, it looks fishy and at best doesn't have as much credibility as you would want it to.

Maybe, but i wasn't actually trying to make Dkkoba locktown, just confirm to myself that they aren't pocketing me.
In fact, i'm fine reading people's theories on why Dkkoba would be scum here, as that is very informative.

[Loftwing]

im not sure how many votes they have, but I'd like to vote for Loftwing. i feel deep in my heart that loftwing is not playing for the good team here becaseu very performative style, lots of posts with little content early on, but just something not good with the tone which is hard to explain.

If you think Loftwing is scum, do you think that makes SSB's allignment clearer? Given that Loftwing has been attacking the slots that are pushing SSB.

yes i think loftwings position there is strange. attacked for defending the slot, so responds by arguing they are a nullread which could be a way of trying to not look like they are buddying up - which would be tough for the evil team. although could also be loftwing trying to distance from a town elimination. not the only player potentially in that camp i can see.

I'm gonna just, explain that, ok?

I disagreed with the wagon not because I townread them (because at the time I didn't townread them) but because I thought the proponents of the wagon were suspicious and trying to kill Kyouko under the guise of just building pressure.

We literally did.
She is tonally scummy, asking too many questions,and her reaction to pressure is to ignore it completely and try to make it go away. Plus literally she is dodging this game 100%

Does this look like an explanation for why you should build pressure or is it an explanation for why Kyouko should die soon™? I think it's the latter.
(For the record, I disagree with #1 and #2, with #3 and #4 already proven to be false in recent times. I don't think Kyouko was tonally scummy nor do I think she was asking too many questions, if that is even possible.)

(Also, I couldn't find NorwEE explaining why they thought Kyouko was scummy, so I'll just respond to the first few posts that they made suspecting Kyouko)

[Seriously guys I want Salty 3 in my hands right now nintendo please release it.]

Mislims arent the only thing scum are looking for. Offering the advice on playing larges via finding a town poe, and stuffing the call-out on your own poe, reads to me like scum looking to establish themselves within a townblock.

The wording used in the pushback on Andres felt very specifically geared towards that agenda, so it feels too coincidental to be town.

SSBM your push on Koba is bad.

VOTE: kyouko

surprised_pikachu

Your reaction here feels very scum!centric

Andres/SSBM scum.
I’ve solved 2/4th of the game already.

Now, I don't know about you, but this just feels like NorwEE wants to kill Kyouko, not pressure them. This also doesn't look like much of an explanation for why Kyouko is scum, rather it just dumps them into a scumpile.
This definitely doesn't feel like building pressure, like Koba said they were doing, and NorwEE later affirmed.

how does kyouko manage to everytime they post to pop in and comment on some shit that happened ages ago and never whats happening in the moment

btw this is something that strongly indicates scum kyouko ^ and in general you can read that game and see how avoidant kyouko is to acknowedging pressure at all when she is scum.

(also warning, deadpronons in the game bc kyouko hadn't announced their transition yet)

[An example of how Koba implied that Kyouko was being pressured here, not hunted.]

I’ve already said that i’m voting Kyouko until they post.
I think their shitty reaction to

pressure from Koba

and subsequent flaking from the game was extremely scum indicative. If they return and make town posts i’ll change my mind, but if nothing has happened to change my scumread of the slot i don’t see why it should.

[An example of NorwEE acknowledging that Koba pressured Kyouko]

All of this is a convoluted way to explain something in two sentences:

The two main players who were on Kyouko's wagon were aiming to kill but claimed to build pressure. This is how you can say that a wagon is terrible while having a nullread on said wagon.

p.s.

Wow, this turned out to be waaay longer than expected. Oh well, I might as well make long information-dense posts detailing my thoughts rather than short posts which barely explain anything.

[DkKoba]

When did i deny that i wanted to kill kyouko?.LMAO?

[DkKoba]

You can do 2 things at once.

[DkKoba]

holy shit youre trying to claim bc norwee misattributed my intentions that makes us wrong/scum
if anything it proves we are unaligned and at least 1 of us is town so get fucked with that

[DkKoba]

when soemone wants to kill your slot - would you not call that pressure, loftwing? or are you special and use different words?

[Loftwing]

When did i deny that i wanted to kill kyouko?.LMAO?

You can't build pressure and want to kill the slot where pressure is being built, because that would defeat the entire point of building pressure (determining alignment without killing). You never explicitly say "I do not want Kyouko dead" but if you pretend to build pressure, then you imply that you don't want to kill them.

You can do 2 things at once.

In this case, you said you were building pressure, while thinking "Kill! KILL!

KEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

"

I have no time for you, I think that your actions speak for you louder than your "gotchas", and you just can't run away from your actions. You may try denying them, but that won't help. I believe that you are probably scum here, but I do see some town action behind what you are doing, I just don't believe that justifies your bloodlust. I am rather uninterested in you right now, and I would much rather move on to players with less than 25 posts, to see whether they are alive or not.

[Loftwing]

(unrelated, remember that video that I said I was editing? It's done and up on my YT channel.)



I would like to see more from the players in the red box of doom

[DkKoba]

"you can't bui-"

let me stop you right there.

bad take.

you aren't me - you don't use wording the same way I do. you are trying to weave a narrative that doesn't exist.

Grasping at straws is all you are doing.

I was pressuring Kyouko because obviously no one is good enough like me to read kyouko as consistently as I have before. I was pretty much the only one pushing her when she was scum both times at the start and it took evidence to be gathered to get others to sheep. part of this game is convincing others - and part of that process is gathering the evidence that helps others see what you are seeing if you are able to reach correct conclusions sooner than most.

What scum motivation do I have to "pretend to build pressure" and want them dead? What are you on about with this?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kyouko are you referring to me beacuse my pronouns aren't he/him

Yes, sorry
Sorry to dwlee too if I've done this to you this game, I'm working on it with both of you

[LicketyQuickety]

"you can't bui-"

let me stop you right there.

bad take.

you aren't me - you don't use wording the same way I do. you are trying to weave a narrative that doesn't exist.

Grasping at straws is all you are doing.

I was pressuring Kyouko because obviously no one is good enough like me to read kyouko as consistently as I have before. I was pretty much the only one pushing her when she was scum both times at the start and it took evidence to be gathered to get others to sheep. part of this game is convincing others - and part of that process is gathering the evidence that helps others see what you are seeing if you are able to reach correct conclusions sooner than most.

What scum motivation do I have to "pretend to build pressure" and want them dead? What are you on about with this?

Scum want to miselim Town. That could be a possible motivation you have for pushing this so strongly.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me just

[DkKoba]

And above all - I am no fool. I will continue to evaluate a slot in real time and actually be open to changing my mind and give those people a change. My initial push onto kyouko at the time was not 100% - was more like 80% - but pressure helped raise that to 100% certainty.

Maybe if you actually used these kinds of reading methods instead of attacking those that use them you would actually have accuracy in games if you are town here/succeed at defending your partners from elimination(or at least be unable to collect the bus towncred) as scum.

[DkKoba]

"you can't bui-"

let me stop you right there.

bad take.

you aren't me - you don't use wording the same way I do. you are trying to weave a narrative that doesn't exist.

Grasping at straws is all you are doing.

I was pressuring Kyouko because obviously no one is good enough like me to read kyouko as consistently as I have before. I was pretty much the only one pushing her when she was scum both times at the start and it took evidence to be gathered to get others to sheep. part of this game is convincing others - and part of that process is gathering the evidence that helps others see what you are seeing if you are able to reach correct conclusions sooner than most.

What scum motivation do I have to "pretend to build pressure" and want them dead? What are you on about with this?

Scum want to miselim Town. That could be a possible motivation you have for pushing this so strongly.

Please stop with the vague shit.

"scum want to mislim town"

Is Kyouko still null to you?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Quick, Loftwing. You are both ignoring mafia right in front of you because "hurr durr bloodlust" and getting distracted.
Guess what, this is day 1 in a large. We need to eliminate scum and garner support for it, not sit there with an thumb up our ass.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You’re like the KGB telling people to follow protocol, and those that actually try to change things for the better are labelled as enemies of the people.

[DkKoba]

If kyouko does flip town I'll eat crow and it'll prob fuck up the gamestate for us but I believe we have a hit - and anyone can see that for themselves by comparing Kyouko's scum games to this game and then also crossreferencing her town games.

It's pretty obvious like if you even give half a shit to verify what I have been claiming about Kyouko's play thus far.

[Loftwing]

sigh

I really don't want to have to explain the same thing over and over again.

Building Pressure

and

Executioning

are two mutually exclusive things. You cannot both

Want to gauge how someone reacts to pressure

while also

wanting to kill them

because the whole purpose of building pressure is

to determine a player's alignment without killing them

, while the whole purpose of execution is

to kill those who have been deemed to be against the town

(mainly in the form of killing scum). You cannot want

someone alive

while also wanting them

dead

. They are mutually exclusive. I hope you can understand this, because I will not be explaining it again.

[DkKoba]

Like this is the sort of case where if you want to say I'm wrong/scum you should actually prove that Kyouko is town first - something i believe impossible and I know no one accusing the townblock has tried it because they would reach that same conclusion, provided they were not biasing themselves into believing it at all costs.

[DkKoba]

sigh

I really don't want to have to explain the same thing over and over again.

Building Pressure

and

Executioning

are two mutually exclusive things. You cannot both

Want to gauge how someone reacts to pressure

while also

wanting to kill them

because the whole purpose of building pressure is

to determine a player's alignment without killing them

, while the whole purpose of execution is

to kill those who have been deemed to be against the town

(mainly in the form of killing scum). You cannot want

someone alive

while also wanting them

dead

. They are mutually exclusive. I hope you can understand this, because I will not be explaining it again.

I can and I will and you're really pissing me off because of how wrong your takes are and how destructive they are to this gamestate.

[DkKoba]

TBH i dont mind policying loftwing just to make the game more bearable

[DkKoba]

You are intentionally ignoring the point where the pressure isn't for me, it's for other people to see.

Plus its literally inherently what happens when someone votes someone and wants their slot dead - so maybe you should go back to mafia 101 if you think pressure is incompatible with pushing to kill.

[Loftwing]

Like this is the sort of case where if you want to say I'm wrong/scum you should actually prove that Kyouko is town first - something i believe impossible and I know no one accusing the townblock has tried it because they would reach that same conclusion, provided they were not biasing themselves into believing it at all costs.

If I wanted to prove that you're wrong, I would need to divine Kyouko's alignment. If I wanted to prove that you were scum, I would need to divine your alignment.