Large normal 236 [Game over]

[DkKoba]

i'm like firmly in my current townrage and very distinct from my recent scumrange - if you think i needed to tryhard at a playerlist like this instead of doing what i normally do at a PL with players i know you're trolling.

[Loftwing]

dkkoba what's the three-point summary of Kyouko-scum for me?

More questions than solid statements(attempting to appear "uninformed" via trying to informatively look like she needs to ask about everything - hides in catchups to avoid pressure - no fire in their play, this *is* present when they are town. (hard to quantify - its more of gut thing than anything that is felt )

I think that if Kyouko is able to radiate Town behaviour without even knowing that they are under pressure to do so, then that is a plus. (Of course, I am willing to accept that scum!Kyouko would see that they are under pressure, so would know to act more towny than usual, but that comes with its' own problem of trying to act town while not being town, a known hard problem)

Could you clear up what "No fire in their play" means? I don't understand that.

I think this could go either way. Town can ask a lot of questions because they are uninformed, or scum can ask a lot of questions to look uninformed.

[DkKoba]

Pressure isn't pressure if it doesn't actually carry a threat of dying with it. Wtf

loftwing is just scum. let's switch to him and then we can get kyouko after.

[DkKoba]

WHAT FUCKING TOWN RADIATION YOURE FULL OF SHIT LMAO

[DkKoba]

i honestly dont care if you flip town youre basically 5th scum if you are and join spec chat instead of flooding the thread with your bad takes

[Dwlee99]

Pressure isn't pressure if it doesn't actually carry a threat of dying with it. Wtf

loftwing is just scum. let's switch to him and then we can get kyouko after.

I still feel like Loftwing has a better chance of just being... wrong

Although I've definitely won games killing wrong town before getting the scum lol

[Loftwing]

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

I'm going to just stop arguing with you. You seem to be saying "I am not and can never be wrong", so there's no point in trying to change your mind there. You won't accept a good argument even if it was made, because you have it in your head that you can't be wrong, and no amount of argument in the world will change someone's mind if they decided that they are right.

[DkKoba]

cool cookie - loftwing - andres- kyouko

is a solve i dont hate atp

these are the only 4 names that are not hitting the bar of townienes I have currently set.

[DkKoba]

Pressure isn't pressure if it doesn't actually carry a threat of dying with it. Wtf

loftwing is just scum. let's switch to him and then we can get kyouko after.

I still feel like Loftwing has a better chance of just being... wrong

Although I've definitely won games killing wrong town before getting the scum lol

its literally a win win because then we remove their influence and prevent them from ruining the game

[DkKoba]

hakai/wake/nero could have scum if im wrong on any of those but i believe i have at least 3/4.

[Dwlee99]

Andres and cool cookie I think are town

[Dwlee99]

Nvm on cool cookie, that's kop slot

[DkKoba]

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

I'm going to just stop arguing with you. You seem to be saying "I am not and can never be wrong", so there's no point in trying to change your mind there. You won't accept a good argument even if it was made, because you have it in your head that you can't be wrong, and no amount of argument in the world will change someone's mind if they decided that they are right.

You say this after providing shitargument after shitargument - like the v/la nonsense.

I will just say it, I have better accuracy and if you are town you would just sheep someone who has a proven track record of 100% reading someone as my claim is just as good as a tracker guilty.

[cool cookie]

Pressure isn't pressure if it doesn't actually carry a threat of dying with it. Wtf

loftwing is just scum. let's switch to him and then we can get kyouko after.

I still feel like Loftwing has a better chance of just being... wrong

Although I've definitely won games killing wrong town before getting the scum lol

hmmm

[Loftwing]

Coolkie, what are your current thoughts on Koba?

[cool cookie]

cool cookie - loftwing - andres- kyouko

is a solve i dont hate atp

these are the only 4 names that are not hitting the bar of townienes I have currently set.

I don't think that scumteam ever wins this game

Loftwing - I'm willing to buy this as dkkoba-town - partly player, partly gamestate read. at the very least, dkkoba would be way down the list of folk to consider elimming today.

[Loftwing]

cool cookie - loftwing - andres- kyouko

is a solve i dont hate atp

these are the only 4 names that are not hitting the bar of townienes I have currently set.

I don't think that scumteam ever wins this game

Loftwing - I'm willing to buy this as dkkoba-town - partly player, partly gamestate read. at the very least, dkkoba would be way down the list of folk to consider elimming today.

I would tend to agree. Their arrogance here along with boxing themselves into a "I'm right and you're wrong" fortress would come from a town player.

[cool cookie]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

[DkKoba]

if you take a look at the 3 games i linked of kyouko and I's you see that I have her number at this point as both alignments and it wasn't just a fluke.

[cool cookie]

What is your read on SSB Andres. Do you scumread them?

Here’s my take - the reason I haven’t defended Kyouko aggressively despite seriously questioning Koba is because if I’m wrong about Koba (and I can be - Koba is notoriously hard to read) is because Kyouko admitted that Koba has their number, and yet they’re not screaming

hard

to get Koba executed. There’s not a whole lot of outrage in 461 or 480 for example. Just some surprise, a rather meek admission that Koba does have Kyouko’s number, and some strategic discussion about how Koba might go about using their 100% read rate to their advantage as Scum.

I am comfortable applying the burden of proficiency standard to a select

few

players. The number is small, and since I haven’t played here enough most of those players are in the old forum I used to play in. Koba is in that list. I have a feeling Kyouko agrees that the standard should apply to Koba too. If that’s indeed the case, then why aren’t they more outraged that Koba is reading them wrong and hard dunking on them? And why are they letting me take all the heat here? I’ve been in games with players I know can easily tell when I’m Town. I know how that feels like. And when they’re hedging on my slot (and I’m acting like my usual Town self), or even worse, calling me Scum, I obviously get suspicious. I’m always skeptical even if you have me right, but with some players it becomes more obvious when they should be reading you correctly but aren’t.

At the same time, I have seen Koba get some things wrong (of course, none of us are perfect). But after screaming this loud for an execution? I think that’s maybe a bit rare. If we flip Kyouko, and they flip Scum, Koba is going to get NK’ed and well, that’ll be that. But if they’re wrong? Then what? That’s going to be hard. What I’ve done in the past in situations like this is advocated for the “1v1” to get sorted, and go from there. I don’t know that I’m the one who should be making this argument. But I think it should be considered.

this is pretty bad, especially in a Koba-Kyouko TvT world.

[Loftwing]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

[Loftwing]

What is your read on SSB Andres. Do you scumread them?

Here’s my take - the reason I haven’t defended Kyouko aggressively despite seriously questioning Koba is because if I’m wrong about Koba (and I can be - Koba is notoriously hard to read) is because Kyouko admitted that Koba has their number, and yet they’re not screaming

hard

to get Koba executed. There’s not a whole lot of outrage in 461 or 480 for example. Just some surprise, a rather meek admission that Koba does have Kyouko’s number, and some strategic discussion about how Koba might go about using their 100% read rate to their advantage as Scum.

I am comfortable applying the burden of proficiency standard to a select

few

players. The number is small, and since I haven’t played here enough most of those players are in the old forum I used to play in. Koba is in that list. I have a feeling Kyouko agrees that the standard should apply to Koba too. If that’s indeed the case, then why aren’t they more outraged that Koba is reading them wrong and hard dunking on them? And why are they letting me take all the heat here? I’ve been in games with players I know can easily tell when I’m Town. I know how that feels like. And when they’re hedging on my slot (and I’m acting like my usual Town self), or even worse, calling me Scum, I obviously get suspicious. I’m always skeptical even if you have me right, but with some players it becomes more obvious when they should be reading you correctly but aren’t.

At the same time, I have seen Koba get some things wrong (of course, none of us are perfect). But after screaming this loud for an execution? I think that’s maybe a bit rare. If we flip Kyouko, and they flip Scum, Koba is going to get NK’ed and well, that’ll be that. But if they’re wrong? Then what? That’s going to be hard. What I’ve done in the past in situations like this is advocated for the “1v1” to get sorted, and go from there. I don’t know that I’m the one who should be making this argument. But I think it should be considered.

this is pretty bad, especially in a Koba-Kyouko TvT world.

Could you explain why you think this is bad? I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter.

[cool cookie]

Andres, I’ve read through and seen you complain about weak votes from Norwee and Titus, and people reading your meta wrong.

Would it be fair to say you’ve been caught for the wrong reasons?

This looks weird to me, anyon eplayed with Ranny before? It feels like the classic "fairish" scumtell, also the words dont seem to match the intent.

Like what is expected here Ranny? What do you expect Andre's to say and what do you get from that? This feels snipish.

agree that is a bit odd from Ranny.

have read the Kyouko-iso - not much there to get excited about. could be scum (koba's observations seem fair - lack of town fire, catching up a bit of a toil, although none of those are hard tells for me in isolation). I can get why koba would want to elim there if the meta fits, but compared to the field I don't think Kyouko is top tier scummy or a priority elim today.

[Dwlee99]

Sheeping Koba in the past has given me great results and I think Koba is town here

[cool cookie]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

that's exactly what i was implying. or to frame it differently, if scum aren't doing that, it's a strategic error.

What is your read on SSB Andres. Do you scumread them?

Here’s my take - the reason I haven’t defended Kyouko aggressively despite seriously questioning Koba is because if I’m wrong about Koba (and I can be - Koba is notoriously hard to read) is because Kyouko admitted that Koba has their number, and yet they’re not screaming

hard

to get Koba executed. There’s not a whole lot of outrage in 461 or 480 for example. Just some surprise, a rather meek admission that Koba does have Kyouko’s number, and some strategic discussion about how Koba might go about using their 100% read rate to their advantage as Scum.

I am comfortable applying the burden of proficiency standard to a select

few

players. The number is small, and since I haven’t played here enough most of those players are in the old forum I used to play in. Koba is in that list. I have a feeling Kyouko agrees that the standard should apply to Koba too. If that’s indeed the case, then why aren’t they more outraged that Koba is reading them wrong and hard dunking on them? And why are they letting me take all the heat here? I’ve been in games with players I know can easily tell when I’m Town. I know how that feels like. And when they’re hedging on my slot (and I’m acting like my usual Town self), or even worse, calling me Scum, I obviously get suspicious. I’m always skeptical even if you have me right, but with some players it becomes more obvious when they should be reading you correctly but aren’t.

At the same time, I have seen Koba get some things wrong (of course, none of us are perfect). But after screaming this loud for an execution? I think that’s maybe a bit rare. If we flip Kyouko, and they flip Scum, Koba is going to get NK’ed and well, that’ll be that. But if they’re wrong? Then what? That’s going to be hard. What I’ve done in the past in situations like this is advocated for the “1v1” to get sorted, and go from there. I don’t know that I’m the one who should be making this argument. But I think it should be considered.

this is pretty bad, especially in a Koba-Kyouko TvT world.

Could you explain why you think this is bad? I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter.

in essence, it's saying:

Flip Kyouko today. if town, flip Koba tomorrow. potentially setting up multiple mis-elims, under the guise of "dkkoba is always right".

more generally, selectively applying 'burden of proficiency' is a real easy mafia tactic. would be interesting to know if the consensus/evidence from past games is that andres does hold koba in such high esteem.