Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[T3]

Looking for feedback, all.

If one were to make a single-ball with 34 players, what's the highest number of Mafia members you would include while keeping it balanced?

6 or 7
depends on prs

[Dunnstral]

Looking for feedback, all.

If one were to make a single-ball with 34 players, what's the highest number of Mafia members you would include while keeping it balanced?

8. for every 4 players in the game past 1, you want 1 to be aligned with the mafia.

5 players = 1 mafia
9 players = 2 mafia
13 players = 3 mafia
17 players = 4 mafia
21 players = 5 mafia
...

33 players = 8 mafia

[Wake1]

Looking for feedback, all.

If one were to make a single-ball with 34 players, what's the highest number of Mafia members you would include while keeping it balanced?

8. for every 4 players in the game past 1, you want 1 to be aligned with the mafia.

5 players = 1 mafia
9 players = 2 mafia
13 players = 3 mafia
17 players = 4 mafia
21 players = 5 mafia
...

33 players = 8 mafia

That's more than I was anticipating. Sounds good to me. I was thinking singleball, 26:8.

Maybe a Mafia Encryptor and a Backup Encryptor. I'm the kind of game mod that would stuff the Normal game with many weak/even-odd PRs, so I'd try to balance it out. Like instead of Even/Odd Cops, break it up with 3 roles. A N1, N4, N7 etc Cop.

I really just want to see a larger group of Scum working together in an epic, drawn-out game. Thinking of making one soon.

At the same time a large theme would be interesting, too.

[Cook]

can we alias

Alien

to

Abductor

to help differentiate the faction and the role?

[Dunnstral]

Abductor has more sinister connotations

[Not Known 15]

Looking for feedback, all.

If one were to make a single-ball with 34 players, what's the highest number of Mafia members you would include while keeping it balanced?

8. for every 4 players in the game past 1, you want 1 to be aligned with the mafia.

5 players = 1 mafia
9 players = 2 mafia
13 players = 3 mafia
17 players = 4 mafia
21 players = 5 mafia
...

33 players = 8 mafia

That's more than I was anticipating. Sounds good to me. I was thinking singleball, 26:8.

Maybe a Mafia Encryptor and a Backup Encryptor. I'm the kind of game mod that would stuff the Normal game with many weak/even-odd PRs, so I'd try to balance it out. Like instead of Even/Odd Cops, break it up with 3 roles. A N1, N4, N7 etc Cop.

I really just want to see a larger group of Scum working together in an epic, drawn-out game. Thinking of making one soon.

At the same time a large theme would be interesting, too.

A word of warning: 8 are more than you were anticipating because 8 is wrong.
13p 10-3 Mountainous is roughly 21% EV.
33p 25-8 is much more terrible:5%.
That's a lot of difference. Even if you factor in that longer playtime means more evidence you might want to look at 6, maybe 7 if you really like swingy games, but 8 is terrible - even

4v3

has a bit more EV. 8 is too much swing, even if accounting for the large size.
If going for big size, it isn't 1 mafia per 4+1.For player sizes above 12 it is (with usual power) approximately the

square root

of the player size, minus 0.5.

[Dunnstral]

For player sizes above 12 it is (with usual power) approximately the

square root

of the player size, minus 0.5.

That gives you 4 scum in a 21 person game and 5 scum in a 34 person game

I disagree

[mastina]

can we alias

Alien

to

Abductor

to help differentiate the faction and the role?

I'm opposed to this because the role name predates the faction name. Alien was a role before the Alien faction existed.

Also Alien as a faction is (mostly*) not Normal.

*(It

could

be done I believe because I believe it isn't a strict rule that multiball factions must be called 'mafia' and 'werewolves', but I could be mistaken. But, even if I'm not and it can technically be done through flavor, I would not recommend it.)

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think the Alien faction would be permitted in a normal game because of the different factional kill rules. Also the fact that Aliens tend to by nature have bastardly and non-normal powers.

[Gypyx]

can we alias

Alien

to

Abductor

to help differentiate the faction and the role?

I'm opposed to this because the role name predates the faction name. Alien was a role before the Alien faction existed.

Also Alien as a faction is (mostly*) not Normal.

*(It

could

be done I believe because I believe it isn't a strict rule that multiball factions must be called 'mafia' and 'werewolves', but I could be mistaken. But, even if I'm not and it can technically be done through flavor, I would not recommend it.)

the only valid names for alternative multiball factions are Werewolves / or a mafia variation

[Cook]

instead of aliasing it to abductor can we add abductor as an alternate name for alien?

[Gypyx]

does this really belong in this thread though

[Cook]

was asking to add another name to a normal role

i figured it would be good practice to ask the NRG before doing something to the wiki page

[Gypyx]

well, not really for changing a faction's name, besides imo, factions are way more something that's a "culture" thing than an arbitrary name, you can't change it like that with little reason

[TemporalLich]

Consider refactoring Vengeful into a night role. This will reduce the power of Vengeful by making it vulnerable to active protection (but not roleblocks) and also lead to the possibility of multikills but will deNormalize Twilight actions in Normals and possibly open the door to the Venge modifier being Normalized.

Night Vengeful would be able to submit a kill action on the Night after they are eliminated.

[Not Known 15]

Consider refactoring Vengeful into a night role. This will reduce the power of Vengeful by making it vulnerable to active protection (but not roleblocks) and also lead to the possibility of multikills but will deNormalize Twilight actions in Normals and possibly open the door to the Venge modifier being Normalized.

Night Vengeful would be able to submit a kill action on the Night after they are eliminated.

Dead interaction is not normal at all. Vengeful is almost exclusively used in twilight outside normals, and has no history of being used in normals that way.
Night Vengeful is not normal.

[TemporalLich]

a role minutia:

Compulsive Mailman should be required to confirm with a "default message" in Normal games.

[TemporalLich]

I should probably post the other Vengeful Normalization proposal here:

Vengeful must submit a target

before

they die, they can change this submission at any time. Not submitting anything will lead to a Vengeful holstering (unless they are a Compulsive Vengeful, though a Compulsive Vengeful is required to submit a compulsive list anyway).

[TemporalLich]

but yeah as it stands Vengeful requires non-standard phase structure which is quite evidently

not Normal

.

[DDynamo]

I don't know how you guys feel about a post of this size in terms of suggestions, I've been obsessed with Mafia for quite a bit but have been too scared to actually sign up for a game though I do play things like One Night Ultimate Werewolf with the fam and have ordered Ultimate Werewolf Extreme as well... anyway. Anyway, I occasionally read games on normal and I thought of a few things that might fit in.

Informant Role: Targets a player to make them informed of a detail of the setup. Basically the Mailman, but the message you send is predetermined by the Moderator and unknown to the player.
Charging Modifier: A further modifier to X-Shot. Charging makes it so you get charges back for events that occur in the game, such as a Cop that gets a charge every time a Town Power role is eliminated at day.
Skimmer Role: If the Skimmer visits the same target as the Doctor, the Skimmer gets protected as well.
Famous Modifier: The existence, but not alignment, of the full role of the player is announced by the moderator at the beginning of the game.
X-Result Modifier: A role that only consumes charges if the role receives a certain result, such as a Cop that's only allowed one guilty result before the role ceases to function. That would be created in a game read as "1-Guilty Cop".
Cursed Modifier: Your role will only work on other players who are also Cursed.
Obsessive Modifier: Opposite of Roaming Modifier, if you target a player you must continue to try to target that player every night until they die, at which point you're free to change.

[Gamma Emerald]

Some of those have appeared during the grey list era as grey list roles, notably the one-guilty cop

[RH9]

Isn't Famous like Superstar, X-Result like X-Hit, Cursed like Flying, and Obsessive like Fixed?

[TemporalLich]

Isn't Famous like Superstar, X-Result like X-Hit, Cursed like Flying, and Obsessive like Fixed?

Famous is described as passive Superstar (Superstar usually allows you to reveal yourself)

X-Hit was an attempt to make X-Result a modifier that applies to any role, honestly X-Result is better.

Cursed is more like Shadow, as Flying can target non-Flying but Cursed can't target non-Cursed. Flying can't be targeted by non-Flying though.

Obsessive allows you to change targets if your target dies, Fixed does not.

[Not Known 15]

I should probably post the other Vengeful Normalization proposal here:

Vengeful must submit a target

before

they die, they can change this submission at any time. Not submitting anything will lead to a Vengeful holstering (unless they are a Compulsive Vengeful, though a Compulsive Vengeful is required to submit a compulsive list anyway).

That's a much better option.

[Cook]

I am willing to test this idea in a game.