Micro 1029: 8-Ball (but with Wolves) Game Over

[House]

It more or less feels like Wisdom needs his scumreads to go down in order to win

To be clear, this holds true with him as town as well.

[House]

I'm not sure there was a real reason for Bingle to force a vote on Ali (Save for town voting at deadline to get an elim, perhaps). I still haven't thought of an answer to that

There is zero incentive for town to force an elimination, was no elimination = no nk.

I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

[House]

I'm not sure there was a real reason for Bingle to force a vote on Ali (Save for town voting at deadline to get an elim, perhaps). I still haven't thought of an answer to that

There is zero incentive for town to force an elimination, as* no elimination = no nk.

I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

Fix't

[Morning Tweet]

LOL to clarify what I mean: it makes the reads seem strained rather than natural -- it feels like he can't change his reads on imagine/Ali, he has consistently kept both on the table and I'm not sure there's been anything that clues me in that he's genuinely trying to read them

Page 11 being a good example of him keeping both imagine/Ali as options open

I'm not sure there was a real reason for Bingle to force a vote on Ali (Save for town voting at deadline to get an elim, perhaps). I still haven't thought of an answer to that

There is zero incentive for town to force an elimination, was no elimination = no nk.

I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

Scum gets to switch the 8-ball, actually.

Additionally, if Bingle thought that it would be better than a no-elim, it doesn't exactly matter. I think he's conceivable that he would. It's possible he was just very awkward about it and I'm getting tripped up

[Morning Tweet]

Like Wisdom has been steadfast in his evaluation of Ali/imagine and whenever evidence to the contrary pops up he says that he "reads the game on a deeper level" than i do but doesn't actually explain why he thinks his interpretation is more likely.

Add on of course that I don't think it's true scum!Ali is more likely to make that play. And I have been liking what I've seen of House. And it's the same for imagine.

[House]

Scum gets to switch the 8-ball, actually.

Additionally, if Bingle thought that it would be better than a no-elim, it doesn't exactly matter. I think he's conceivable that he would. It's possible he was just very awkward about it and I'm getting tripped up

Sun switching the 8-ball only matters if town flips. Taking the time to ensure the proper elimination happens minimizes that risk.

I'm not calling him scum for it. I'm saying it's suboptimal play to rush a compromise elimination under these circumstances.

[Morning Tweet]

Bingle was definitely concerned about the 8-ball considering his vote reason, so it is plausible he would prefer an elim to a no-elim. I don't really mind the 8-ball getting swapped either can you can more or less ignore it if you think you're limming scum, but it does shake my confidence in voting Bingle -- I'm just not sure what the scum motivation to vote Ali is that close to deadline, especially when he has no previous scumread/lean on them.

[Wisdom]

See House
Morning Tweet doesnt know me and scumreads my playstyle as it always happens with new people
You dont have that excuse

[Wisdom]

As for the reasons thing that's just me being less lazy than I used to
You know thats not ai

No I don't.

That's a radical playstyle change.

To be clear, that's not why I scumread you. As I've said before, the times they are a changing.

Turning a 1v1 into voting WITH your 1v1 against me?

Something hinky is going on, there.

It's radical that I bother to explain some things a little more? Does that change my overall playstyle? It's hard to accept you actually believe this

I don't understand what you mean with the 1v1 thing. If you mean with Imaginality, I was voting Ali already when it happened, there was no "turning"
If you mean with you, I never 1v1'd you, I thought you were kind of townier than Ali and that I would be able to read you better than I can Ali so I gave you space and focused on the rest of my reads
It does not feel like you want to understand my point of view here

[Wisdom]

And me being the leading wagon on d2 after Ali was the leading wagon on d1 and you not even considering the possibility I'm the 8-ball?

C'mon, man.

I damned well know my slot is being set up for mislim. How do you think that makes you look from my perspective?

I already answered this as well. Yes, if you are town, I agree that you are quite likely the 8ball here. But I do not know you are town and I had to push your slot because I thought Ali is scum. Surely this is not hard to grasp.

[Wisdom]

I don't follow the Bingle vote

The points against Bingle are not super good but poe right now suggests Bingle + Mom
It still won't surprise me a bit if House or Imaginality flip red but I can see the town points for both and accept them as town
Morning Tweet, you and duck are locktown for me
I wish Mom actually played so I had a better read there but yeah

[Wisdom]

It more or less feels like Wisdom needs his scumreads to go down in order to win,

It feels correctly then. That's how I play.

[Wisdom]

I'm not sure there was a real reason for Bingle to force a vote on Ali (Save for town voting at deadline to get an elim, perhaps). I still haven't thought of an answer to that

There is zero incentive for town to force an elimination, was no elimination = no nk.

I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

For the upteenth time
No elim on D1 = Scum change the 8ball from a random guess to someone who's likely getting lim'd
I don't understand how you fail to grasp that while you're positing that you're the 8ball today

[Wisdom]

it feels like he can't change his reads on imagine/Ali, he has consistently kept both on the table and I'm not sure there's been anything that clues me in that he's genuinely trying to read them

When I think I have caught scum the only way to make me reconsider is for someone else, not the person I am tunneling, to point out reasons I am wrong. Like you did with Imaginality and made me think I could be wrong. It's hard for me to listen to for example Imaginality defend himself and go "okay you might be town" because all I see is scum trying to manipulate me into thinking that.

Therefore you are basically scumreading me for my tunnels, which are my defining trait.

[Wisdom]

Btw relevant to your discussion about Bingle;

In the other instance this setup has been run, he was a strong opposer of No-Elimination and commented a lot about how town should not do it in postgame as well.
If anything, his stance with regards to no elimination in this game is mellow compared to that. See 295 and 307 for instance.

[Wisdom]

Also I know you're around, House. I can only take you not talking to me as you waiting and hoping I get hammered.

[Bingle]

Btw relevant to your discussion about Bingle;

In the other instance this setup has been run, he was a strong opposer of No-Elimination and commented a lot about how town should not do it in postgame as well.
If anything, his stance with regards to no elimination in this game is mellow compared to that. See 295 and 307 for instance.

Comparatively, it was a lot worse for town in that game given that scum could 8-ball no elimination. However is just correct that Decent Elimination > No Elimination > Objectively Bad Elimination, yes.

[Wisdom]

I don't know what an objectively bad elimination is, especially on D1 where you have no info and the 8ball is a random guess

It doesnt make much sense to me that you were against this idea given your statements in that game

[Bingle]

An objectively bad elimination is an elimination with no accountability or an elimination on known town. I would not, for example, self hammer at deadline.

IIRC, the point I was making about no elim being bad in that game was that just sitting around and not progressing the game was a bad idea. I'll admit I'm not going back to reread my stances from then though.

[Bingle]

Why do you think duck is town, Wis?

[Bingle]

Eh. Fuckit. Maybe literally anyone will give my case the time of day tomorrow.

VOTE: Wisdom

[Save The Dragons]

Vote Count 2.6

5 Wisdom (House, Taly, imaginality, Morning Tweet, Bingle)
2 Bingle (Wisdom, the worst)

Not voting: Momrangal

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to yeet

Flip incoming...

[Save The Dragons]

Wisdom has been yeeted from the game!

He was a

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

[/spoiler]

What ball was he?

Spoiler:

Wolves get a kill.

Deadline for N2 is (expired on 2021-09-30 11:25:09)

If everyone requests, we can have a fast night.

[Save The Dragons]

Seeking replacement for Momrangal.

[Save The Dragons]

Something_Smart replaces Momrangal effective immediately.