Newbie 2078 - Game Over

[GrandpaMo]

- GrandpaMo thinks I'm dumb and my suspicions are stupid. Obviously, I disagree. Why do you think both of them are town?

when have i fucking said this?

im literally getting frustrated now.

3 people have come out and said something about me saying something dumb or acting // or acting confused like if one person calls me confusing, but this person is saying i called them dumb then obviously that negates the confusion part because that person then wasnt just reading.

but when have i ever said this?

[GrandpaMo]

we kind of let greeting off the hook and i dont really recall why.

im the only one that pushed greeting after this flip. and will gladly do so.

kennyk is being voted rn because of the bad postprogression earlier when i had interactions with them.

it looks like when iquiet down, the game quiet downs hmm i wonder why...

smh

[Micc]

Votecount 2.03

UhUhWaitAndSee (3) -

Dorsey, Titus, AlwaysNever

Dorsey (2) -

Greeting, UhUhWaitAndSee

kennyk (1) -

GrandpaMo

Not Voting (2) -

kennyk, RCEnigma

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2021-09-29 23:55:00).

[Dorsey]

488

[AlwaysNever]

Gpa is confusing. Is he an aggressive town scumhunting the heck out of everybody? Is he scum trying to look like he's scumhunting so that's why he's aggressive? It seems like reading on some other games that this is what he usually plays, but he can really be the one I'm voting today, if not for...

what is this read.
and what is this readlist.

most of them are null reads.

I'd rather give null reads than not giving reads at all, but if you want I can give elaborations on that

488

He only said your readslist is bad, he didn't even call you dumb and stupid, what the f Dorsey. He even agreed with you about individually scumreading your pairings. This is the kind of things that makes me really wary of you. You put words in other people's posts that they didn't even write. Why are you doing this?

[AlwaysNever]

Not a fan of always never reads. Take stances.

You want me to take a stance or are you commenting that I take too many stances???

[Greeting]

besides greeting and titus, I want everyones next post to be a readslist. please thank you.

since you asked nicely....

Titus -

Locktown

duh

Greeting -

Townlean

*
I can't say much regarding them, but if certain other players flip in the color I didn't expect, or even roles I didn't expect, Greeting are instant scumlean to me. That is all I can say

Dorsey -

Null

I have said what I've said about Dorsey, putting him on null cause I still feel conflicted. I would say though, Uhuh and them are not aligned, I was thinking that they might be aligned with one of my other null reads but so far they've successfully acted in a way that led me to believe that they have no association with anyone, if anything the closest association people might give is me and them (RCE has made note of this in day 1) or titus and them, but Titus is confirmed town.

RCE -

Null

Dropped out of the townlean for now, since they pivoted to me for reasons I still can't understand (and taking what I never considered tracking softs seriously), but he might just be misunderstanding me. Still, he's going for a low hanging fruit like Kenny doesn't sit right with me, when there's Uhuh as well but he didn't consider him?

Kennyk -

Null

His slot previously, I've considered to be safe town if not null, but reading on his own posts, I would have to put him back to null for now because I don't find it as compelling to my emotion as Dew's was, but just for now.

Gpa -

Null.

..

.?

Gpa is confusing. Is he an aggressive town scumhunting the heck out of everybody? Is he scum trying to look like he's scumhunting so that's why he's aggressive? It seems like reading on some other games that this is what he usually plays, but he can really be the one I'm voting today, if not for...

Uhuh -

Scumlean

I am scared to vote for Uhuh, if only because Dorsey's adamant refusal to let him off the hook with his distant-style posts are starting to grow on me, and I don't like it when Dorsey's words started to make sense. Kinda felt like I was being manipulated into it, but they're right. Uhuh has been coasting, even his defense of him being more interested in mechanic doesn't really sit well with me, because he doesn't talk about it that much, imo. Reading their posts feels like reading a wolf watching for a town to make a mistake and jump on their hapless back.

TL;DR
I can get behind Uhuh or Gpa's wagon today, but Uhuh is priority

VOTE: UhuhWaitAndSee

well, since I've voted, I might just ask you guys some question cause that might generate content that I'm interested in seeing. If you guys have 2 people on your to-vote list today, which of them would you think is the possible rolecop?

These are the most non-read reads I’ve ever seen in a mafia game.

[Dorsey]

518 was what I got out of it and an address to GMo, who exaggerates everything with frustration and profanity. 523 was a clarification.

[Dorsey]

Are some of you guys in primary school

[UhUhWaitAndSee]

Dew/kennyk - Why didn't you confirm until you realized you hadn't been killed? Also, your catch-up looks more like busywork to build post count than actual game assessment. Regarding Post 448, Post 219 didn't come out of nowhere, as expressed in Post 223 - UhUhWaitAndSee's ISO was lackluster. You did the same thing in Post 468, posting half of an old argument without addressing my rebuttal - I'd already expressed my dissatisfaction with Greeting prior to that Post 286, as can be seen in Post 290.

Greeting - I like the way you tried to soft Titus's claim.

UhUh - AlwaysNever highlighted in Post 391 that almost half of UhUhWaitAndSee's posts are responses to me - I feel this is because he's scum and therefore has been allowed to active lurk with no scrutiny. Even today, his go-to is to post a blurb about game mechanics as opposed to opinions of player slots.

RCE - Why didn't RCE start today with his 'eod postflip' stuff instead of that naked vote? Also, he's lying - I didn't vote HockeyFan over a "pocketing" attempt, I voted him because his wagon had more interaction and accountable history than kennyk's. I also voted it because he jumped over several applicable candidates for elim (my elim pool) to just vote another lurker. I also never said Hockey was town - I said I'd prefer to elim Greeting over Hockey, which was true, but the wagon wasn't on Greeting. (This is why I say just because RCE posts regularly doesn't make him town.)

Titus - Can't be scum unless Greeting is also scum. (Is it coincidence that RCE and GrandpaMo didn't want to kill her? I'm assuming people are friends IRL or something?)

Grandpa - What was the good reason you cited in Post 403 for never voting Titus Day 1?

Always - We're not at D1 again, we have a flip. Also, there's nothing to "excuse" about my play - what are your issues with it?

Still think scum is in here [UhUhWaitAndSee/RCEnigma/Titus]. If it's not Titus, then it's still one of the other two.

?? Game mechanics are important and even more so in the current situation. I was pointing out something to address something one of AlwaysNever's posts were missing.

I think you have to accept this as my playstyle. You refer to it as active lurking - I don't think so, but either way its just a playstyle. I like to rely on hard game mechanics, especially with PR info. I have a penchant for statistics: have a look at https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83092. On d1 scum is only eliminated +0.9% to random (town is lynched 4.7% less than random, the balance is no eliminations). All the other days, it's a lot more favored to eliminating scum than random. Why? Power roles and working out the mechanics. And working out how those mechanics relate to posts made on d1 - even though what is worked out on d1 might be tenuous.

Think of it like the way you or GrandpaMo play, which I find inherently suspicious (I've talked about this earlier). But I don't have a meta to compare it with, so I am hesitant to scum read it. If there are posts that relate to the developing mechanics that I can link back, then I can say that you are more likely to be town or more scum. Hence the emphasis on figuring out the mechanics in the first place.

Dew/kennyk - Why didn't you confirm until you realized you hadn't been killed? Also, your catch-up looks more like busywork to build post count than actual game assessment. Regarding Post 448, Post 219 didn't come out of nowhere, as expressed in Post 223 - UhUhWaitAndSee's ISO was lackluster. You did the same thing in Post 468, posting half of an old argument without addressing my rebuttal - I'd already expressed my dissatisfaction with Greeting prior to that Post 286, as can be seen in Post 290.

Greeting - I like the way you tried to soft Titus's claim.

UhUh - AlwaysNever highlighted in Post 391 that almost half of UhUhWaitAndSee's posts are responses to me - I feel this is because he's scum and therefore has been allowed to active lurk with no scrutiny. Even today, his go-to is to post a blurb about game mechanics as opposed to opinions of player slots.

RCE - Why didn't RCE start today with his 'eod postflip' stuff instead of that naked vote? Also, he's lying - I didn't vote HockeyFan over a "pocketing" attempt, I voted him because his wagon had more interaction and accountable history than kennyk's. I also voted it because he jumped over several applicable candidates for elim (my elim pool) to just vote another lurker. I also never said Hockey was town - I said I'd prefer to elim Greeting over Hockey, which was true, but the wagon wasn't on Greeting. (This is why I say just because RCE posts regularly doesn't make him town.)

Titus - Can't be scum unless Greeting is also scum. (Is it coincidence that RCE and GrandpaMo didn't want to kill her? I'm assuming people are friends IRL or something?)

Grandpa - What was the good reason you cited in Post 403 for never voting Titus Day 1?

Always - We're not at D1 again, we have a flip. Also, there's nothing to "excuse" about my play - what are your issues with it?

Still think scum is in here [UhUhWaitAndSee/RCEnigma/Titus]. If it's not Titus, then it's still one of the other two.

So you think he's above suspicion because he's

outsmarting you

outplaying you

laying low, i.e. not engaging, aka active lurking?

In response to Dorsey's question here are the posts.

I make specific reference to your "active lurking comments".

[UhUhWaitAndSee]

Came upon me that you seem to ask for a lot of reads but don't seem to discuss them. My suspicions seem to be confirmed with a quick scan of the iso.

A lot of questions, not much analysis. A good way to gain towncred without really helping town.

[Greeting]

Came upon me that you seem to ask for a lot of reads but don't seem to discuss them. My suspicions seem to be confirmed with a quick scan of the iso.

A lot of questions, not much analysis. A good way to gain towncred without really helping town.

Dorsey's reads feel more like replies than actual reads.
AlwaysNever's reads don't give too much to analyse.
I somewhat agree with your reads.

[Dorsey]

Pretty confident the game is solved.

How was I supposed to respond to that? What do you feel was left to be said?

[Titus]

My next 3 weeks after today are shot to crap at a minimum. My boss (who I don't see in person) got covid.

X post all games.

[Titus]

Willing to vote AlwaysNever.

[kennyk]

I promised you a read list which was backed up by ISOs. I had three reads ready and saved that draft. Now I wanted to load that draft and what did I get? A draft from last week that I didn't really need
I now lack the enthusiasm to start that all over again. So here is just a short version of a read list:

town:
Titus: confirmed unless there is something so strange going on that even I couldn't think of

townlean
RCEnigma: his efforts to solve this game seem to be genuine, so I tend to trust him a bit. But demanding readlists of nearly everyone and not posting one himself gets me to think.

nul
UhUhWaitAndSee: can't really get a grip on them. If I should write something down about them it will most likely lead to an almost empty sheet of paper.
AlwaysNever: Nearly the same goes here. Maybe it is because both are newbies.

scumlean
Greeting: Had him ISOed yesterday. I think that his post on D1 asking if Titus was claiming looks a bit like fishing for a town PR. Him revealing that he got a message from Titus is not getting him off the hook (as explained).
GrandpaMo: I have some bad gut feelings about him. He is confusing sometimes (more on that in another post).

scum
Dorsey: more on this in one of my next posts.

[kennyk]

@GrandpaMo is really messy. Honestly, just reading their posts gives me a headache. It’s hard to make sense of them. I would say that they are hiding in plain sight in a bold and messy style. It’s a strategy I had used before in mafia games when I rolled scum and managed to pull it off more than once, so I know it can be done. Sometimes I think I could imagine him spinning the wheel to pick the mood to express in their next post in the game.

what???

u literally have never intereacted with me to call me confusing. like what is confusing about me? i have epxlained everything that was needed to be said.

literally look at how i play. anything i have done so far is very nai

Why couldn't Greeting think your posts are confusing even though he didn't interact with you. He is able to read your interactions with others and they could be confusing at times, like the sentence starting with "3 people" in the following quote. I read it five times and still don't get it.

- GrandpaMo thinks I'm dumb and my suspicions are stupid. Obviously, I disagree. Why do you think both of them are town?

when have i fucking said this?

im literally getting frustrated now.

3 people have come out and said something about me saying something dumb or acting // or acting confused like if one person calls me confusing, but this person is saying i called them dumb then obviously that negates the confusion part because that person then wasnt just reading.

but when have i ever said this?

And why are you saying that everything you did so far is nai? Is that what you try to achieve: look as nai as possible?

[kennyk]

we kind of let greeting off the hook and i dont really recall why.

im the only one that pushed greeting after this flip. and will gladly do so.

kennyk is being voted rn because of the bad postprogression earlier when i had interactions with them.

it looks like when iquiet down, the game quiet downs hmm i wonder why...

smh

You forget those three votes on Uhuh and two on Dorsey. One could call that quiet, but ...

[kennyk]

Are some of you guys in primary school

That's the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

VOTE: Dorsey

I don't blame them for the D1 Dew/Dorsey thing that from my point of view was exaggerated way more than it should have by thirds. But the whole attitude and the mentioned mason thing feel so bad I just have to cast that vote.

[kennyk]

Are some of you guys in primary school

That's the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

VOTE: Dorsey

I don't blame them for the D1 Dew/Dorsey thing that from my point of view was exaggerated way more than it should have by thirds. But the whole attitude and the mentioned mason thing feel so bad I just have to cast that vote.

As soon as I clicked on "Submit" I realised I forgot to add:
This is

E-2

.

[Titus]

Interesting, I'd like a VC.

[Dorsey]

So that's a no? No one's in primary school?

Are we voting for scum or just least popular? Because you explained nothing.

[kennyk]

Interesting, I'd like a VC.

If our mod was right (and our mod is always right. Hail to our game mod!) this should be it:

unofficial Votecount 2.035

UhUhWaitAndSee (3) -

Dorsey, Titus, AlwaysNever

Dorsey (3) -

Greeting, UhUhWaitAndSee, kennyk

kennyk (1) -

GrandpaMo

Not Voting (1) -

RCEnigma

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2021-09-29 23:55:00).

[kennyk]

So that's a no? No one's in primary school?

Are we voting for scum or just least popular? Because you explained nothing.

So much for fillers ...

As you could read in my readlist I see you as scum and that's where I vote. If I was voting the least popular I would have voted UhUh who had three votes before my post (you had two).

I explained part of my motives in my vote post and the rest was here:post 538

[RCEnigma]

Kind of forgot about this game.

The VC pretty much lined up with how I think both worlds line up. Going to take a deeper look into uhuh and alwaysnever so my next thought line is going to be multipost iso stuff.