Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[ssbm_Kyouko]

a drive thru

Of which said drivethru is a taco bell and you got a baja blast freeze, rite?

I'm calorie counting now and I'm a dew fiend - I used to bring 2 litres of Voltage to Melee tournaments and just drink right out of the bottle. Now I'm on diet dew and it's decent compared to the original, but let me tell you, the zero sugar baja blast ain't it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There are two town players being really lazy in [lld, cabd, gif].

Looking at my interactions with Marci, and Marci's interactions with me (she basically pushed me all of day 1 up until her rep out, and I vocally scum read her all the way to her rep out)

And then looking at my interactions with Gamma - calling his rep in scummy, trapping him into voting dunn making him look like shit, hammering him in the governor phase.

I actually think that I am pretty clearly not aligned with that slot.

I think that Gif's is probably the most egregious, because he is at "bet the game that it is Luke" given his self vote plan (same would apply to cabd if he turns out to be town)

Like, I really think that those players have not even looked at me, and it is kinda sad.

I actually dont know if anyone pointed it out yet, maybe I already mentioned it, but my scumread on Cabd goes way back to... *ISOs Cabd*

Here.

Why have one bitter utter failure when you can have two, right?

No votes, this is MYLIM.

I'd like everyone to address why they votes who they voted.

P-edit: I was wondering if you'd try to get ahead of me here. Just one go at me in bloodstained wasn't enough, eh?

My first thought when I read this was "Cabd wants to know why I'm voting Dunnstral because I was TRing Dunnstral yesterday and Cabd knows there's only one reason I would have flipped on him overnight"

There's no way I can prove that of course, so I probably haven't said it yet, but it's been at the back of my mind for a while. And it's totally plausible that if Cabd were town here, and he might be, that he would have said the exact same thing. That's just the biggest thing that stands out to me about Cabd in this game, personally. As I recall he also tried to get around voting Dunn, but not as insistently as Gamma did.

[Lukewarm]

Just to help people who don't want to do the dives themselves. Here is me, constantly scum reading Marci, and pushing back against anyone who gives her a town read.

Spoiler:

I would like to state OMGUS @ marci

Also, I am worried about Marci. I think she might be scum

Can we like, ACTUALLY talk about that marcistar read though, Luke?

I got the exact opposite impression from her replies to unwnd, they sort of reminded me of my first large theme.

What data do you have that makes you feel otherwise?

Her lack of a presence early on. Especially 253 , which felt like something she said in Tarot ? (this may be wrong, I have not gotten a chance to look back, but it felt that way)

And then when Unwnd did get content from her, we got 279

Which, I omgus'ed her for. Specifically

i was a bit concerned about 16, since im not sure if i like how luke reached out to me specifically.

Which from my pov, felt wrong. I have played more games with Marci then anyone else on site (except T3 lol), and I generally start out talking directly with her in every game that we play in (as both alignments). And if felt extra weird, because I specifically talked her into playing this game with us, and she clearly immediately got the joke I was making, and played along in post 19

So it kind of felt like she got put on the spot by unwnd, and just needed something to say, and drew that out of a hat to be suspicious of vs a concern that she actually had.

I am curious where the really strong town reads on Marci are coming from.

@Cabd / Kate have read through Marci's more recent scum game, or are you comparing her specifically to tarot?

Marci and I actually haven't been the same alignment in a while. Our last game together, I was scum, and then both of the games before that she was.

That most recent post from you give me scummy vibes, but cabd kinda told me to drop it, so I am talking to you like you are town today.

Ngl, I kinda want to vote Marci :/

If she is off the table, I guess wheme is fine

VOTE: wheme

Ngl, I kinda want to vote Marci :/

If she is off the table, I guess wheme is fine

VOTE: wheme

How is your null-sorting going?

You guys are shifting town. Marci and wheme shifting scum.

And like, I have new things I don't like from Marci, but it feels like I have been told not to push it, and that feels pretty bad :/

ehys everyone been salty lately..?

Like, this is marci's only post on Saturday. And it came right after someone called her out by name in 1765

And "Where is marci" into "I'm here!" into actually nothing looks pretty bad imo.

And then Sunday, we still did not get anything. Just a promise for more

maybe i can try a bit later but today isnt a good time, we're celebrating my younger brothers birthday : D

And that was more then 24 hours ago, but apparently that later has not happened yet

but apparently marci is off limits because of a secret code you and cabd spit back and forth, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And scrolling through her iso, it is actually 7 straight posts of only quote responses to me, and then nothing at all. And it both seems weird that I am the only person she has interacted with in the last like 3 days. And its weird that she has disappeared. And its weird that she popped back up almost immediately after she was name dropped. And it is weird that even that did not lead to content.

from what shes posted so far i'd gather youre the only one shes super comfortable engaging with, and i'd bet a lot of it boils down to nerves. I just wish she felt more comfortable so we could all have stronger reads

This, does not exactly make me think marci is more likely to be town. I have played with scum!marci 2 times (No, I am not counting tarot. We did not play together that game lol). And both times I town read her

So, I could see scum!marci being more comfortable talking to me then other players.

And, like, I understand why marci would be scared of like Cabd or Notty after their last game together, and ffery for a different reason, but Marci has played with Dunn and kyouko and dgb all before. Plus neither you or wheme are particularly intimidating.

So I feel like Marci has people she could reach out to, but she just kind of isnt :/

I am going to drop this convo about marci here tho. She gets to live today. I just hope that if she is town, that she towns it up sometime soon

Oh, and then Gamma reps in, I disagree with Kate on her town reading his entrance.

Spoiler:

It's a strange plot twist that Katniss shores up my faltering Cabd read.

If you say so. I have reservations about both katnisses. And I'm just setting it aside for the day :/

If I am understanding, you were saying that Gamma has improved your read on the Marci slot.

What coming from gamma is having you town read him?

Not sure if you understood me. When I said reservations about both katnisses, I meant Marci and also gammas catch up

And then the very first thing I do day 2, is to pester Cabd into revealing clear he had on Marci/gamma, because I really really wanted to kill that slot. (Day 1, I thought that it was that Marci and Cabd were heighbors, and that he was town reading her in there. And I needed him to tell me what she possibly could have said to make him so sure she is town. I was wrong, but that is where I thought I was going)

Spoiler:

I would like the Katniss thing to be fully explained.

I understood it as Cabd had more information then we did about Marci/Gamma.

Are we talking a mason claim? Informed of their alignment? Neighbors, and he saw something in their hood?

I am still not seeing where Marci said she was Shiro :/

Where?

Quote Marci. ELI5 how it tells you she is Shiro

@Gamma, confirm flavor, or nah?

If gamma/marcislot ~is~ scum, it's with somebody fluent in crumbs. I'm still not sure that the reply to me is all that awkward as Luke makes it out to be though, as opposed to just flavor-dressing... but we won't know until we get a flavor and role claim from Gamma.

When I said that before, I kind of meant that I would not expect Marci to crumb her flavor At All, unless prompted. I could see her crumbing her role, but I would not expect a flavor crumb from her, especially in a upick of flavors that she has never seen before (and would therefore make it harder to crumb it in the first place). So, that sentence from about the sky her looked weird in a "this is not standard marci speak, so does look like a crumb"

And then, I settle into "I want to kill gamma/dunn and have wheme rolecop the other"

Spoiler:

Mainly just Dunn no longer being in a "no-touch" zone.

There has just been a lot of confusion about his role, in ways that makes me feel like he could be making it up. Even before kyouko claimed tracker on him, he claimed that he inherited a part of DGB's role, but since it is dreaming god he did not know what it did, so he could be the second vote. Which does not jive with the timeline of when he would have received dgb's power. That was "oh, I misunderstood that it was an active power"

And then with the tracker, it feels off with SS

I collect a watered-down/limited version of their role

My role says I get a weaker version of their role

But then going from "undead magnet" to "undead conduit" does not feel weaker or watered down at all. If anything, seems stronger. So then he lost the doc, but got a stronger version of the second ability, and that feels wrong too. And even if he IS a conduit for SS to target DGB, what did SS target DGB with, if not a doc?

Also, I don't think that his claim meshes with mine.

Oh, and I kinda liked Wheme's posts in the catch up. Urge to kill him has settled down

I think I want to vote Dunn. The track guilty, and the shifting claim, and it not meshing with my role feels like the strongest things to go off of atm. Everything else just feels so uncertain :/

I would like LLD to full claim first though.

Ugh. Gamma was the other person I was considering :/

I was thinking kill Dunn, have wheme role cop gamma. But I could be open to doing the opposite

VOTE: Dunn

You Ninja'd me

UNVOTE:

We might should talk night actions first

I think it's rolecop gamma ?

Does anyone have a better idea?

VOTE: Gamma

I have a headache, so I am not gonna dig up posts. But I scum read Marci day 1, I scum read Gamma's catch up day 1. The only reason I did not push that slot to be the elim was because of Cabd's big "no touchie" sign that ended up being bunk anyways.

They keep accusing Kate of having an agenda, but scrolling through their iso, they have an agenda. Like, I invite people to open their iso and "ctrl+f" Kate and look at their posts for the day. They really do respond to everything Kate says by attacking it. It is especially clunky surrounding Cabd. First attacking Kate for scum reading cabd, then saying that they were scum reading kate and cabd both for a while.

I also really liked that quote from Marci that Wheme grabbed. I don't feel like it makes sense, because marci was looking for the "right way to use" her ability, and then gamma claimed a purely negative utility role. And gamma's response was that Marci must have misunderstood her role....

Gamma. What are your thoughts about the fact that with me and Dunn voting you, scum could have quick hammered you if we were both town (from your pov)

You have been town reading me, and you decided that kyouko was the scum out of the kyouko/Dunn tracker stuff.

What does this current situation do for your reads?

Are you sending guessing me? Or Dunn? What would that mean for kyouko?

Or do you think there is a reason scum would not quick hammer you?

Like. New things have happened. Your town reads put you in hammer range. And I am not seeing revaluations from you because of that.

Id rather eliminate the real threats first

Gamma. This line makes it incredibly hard for me to believe that you are town.

You have claimed town beloved princess, and looking at the numbers, if that is true, the from your pov voting you out means we lose the game. On the spot.

But you are not playing like you are the only lose condition today.

Like, from you pov it should be that ANY elim (even on town!) is infinitly better then an elim on you, because you are the only elim that loses this day phase.

But here, the two people on the chopping block are you and Dunn. And you think Dunn could be scum. But, nah, you're not gonna accept that. You're not gonna join that wagoj because it is not good enough (??). Instead you look like you are just kinda admitting defeat and rolling over to die?

It just does not feel right.

I want to kill gamma

VOTE: Dunn

I can wait to kill gamma tomorrow

-----

Like, it I was scum, then that means that I can into Day 1 ready to destroy Marci's slot (which, is definitely not something I would ever plan to do to Marci).

Then, decided to double bus Day 2. And then, after making Gamma look terrible, I then didn't target him with the govenor ability.

[Lukewarm]

Also, this would be a weird partner exchange imo, but definitely a minor point.

Spoiler:

I am not caught up, but I am wondering if lld ever claimed the rest of her ability?

LLD stated D1 her only functionality was to be an extra option for who to send to do the factional kill

LLD stated D1 her only functionality was to be an extra option for who to send to do the factional kill

She definitely crumbed that she had more then that

I think I want to vote Dunn. The track guilty, and the shifting claim, and it not meshing with my role feels like the strongest things to go off of atm. Everything else just feels so uncertain :/

I would like LLD to full claim first though.

I want to know the rest of your role, since we have done a mass claim

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

This is a full claim besides my character name which I will happily provide if asked.

Seems people really forgot about this, eh

Okay. Then I will rephrase. LLD, what makes your role a DPS role and not a support role?

So Gamma will stop thinking that I am asking for no reason, because he can apparently look at her iso to see her out and out claim, but doesn't look at the blatant softs

Spoiler:

Oh my, I think I may like where this is going.

If you build enough Taboo in the story, you can do something powerful.

Like I don't know. Kill someone.

Are you following, Cabd?

Exile effects and kills are both removal, though.

I think our deck might have a little too much removal. Not enough curvel

Cabd are you understanding me?

More than half!

At the very least, the non-MTG stuff... I uh... actually don't play MTG

We have too much DPS in the party.

Ah yeah, not everyone queues up to ranked to play nami and morgana all day.

It takes a real angel at heart to do that.

I think we have a few of those running around, but it's bonkers that we could be in XYLIM on day two with claims as stated, yes.

Cabd.

I'm Pyke, not Sona.

I'm Darius, not Nami.

And for the record Gamma, these are the other roles that were considered DPS roles, not Supports (when in League speak) or Removal, not Curve (when in MTG)

Of the "DPS" who do you think might be less than legit, here?

Toog, Manatee.

But Manatee is provable. But I think with what I know Manatee is too much as claimed.

I don’t think she meant she was included in that
She’s not something that adds kills to the game. Manatee was, Toog wasn’t, I am, DGB might have been, and Kate’s claim is one

Why not let her answer?

because I feel like the answer is clear to me and she seems to be rather checked out

Why not let her answer, and stop trying to guess the right answer for her. Because she very much did say that she is a dps, not a support.

Cabd.

I'm Pyke

, not Sona.

I'm Darius

, not Nami.

I don't know a whole lot about League, sorry

Even still, that should have been a signal there’s more to her role than she stated was the point

Even if you don’t understand the actual components of the crumb- I don’t think Luke has as much league knowledge?

I have not played a game of league since like, 2014. But I knew sona and nomi are both supports (I played sona semi-regurally when I played) that was enough for me to get what she was saying there

[Lukewarm]

oof at my editing

[Cabd]

If I go out please with a bang not a wimper.


Thread is dead and people who are not me should go ahead and discuss this stuff out not just prod dodge to deadline :/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You were asked a question by Kate cabd and I wanted to see the answer

[GuyInFreezer]

If I go out please with a bang not a wimper.


Thread is dead and people who are not me should go ahead and discuss this stuff out not just prod dodge to deadline :/

I'll probably be more active once I start my rereading. Which is soon.

[Cabd]

You were asked a question by Kate cabd and I wanted to see the answer

Which? Did I miss one?

[Kate Bishop]

Cabd, thoughts about 4947?

GiF, I wanna do Luke and then discuss between Kate and Cabd tomorrow honestly. I think Luke ends the game.

[Kate Bishop]

we've done some rereading, particularly Gamma's posts, including his replace-in catch-up.

it's going to take a bit to wordz stuff, but it's incoming.

[Kate Bishop]

also a deeper dive of Luke's posts.

[Cabd]

Oh, I skipped that because I'd already sort of answered it before it was asked in that I'm afraid to do that and be wrong about Luke, and brain short-circuits at the idea of "it wasn't Luke now you have to fight a losing battle in 4P and get to be THE REASON the game ends"

But as LLD mentioned that's maybe me being like, I dunno, selfish?

[GuyInFreezer]

I should really sleep since I have to wake up at 3 AM but
Even though I too dread going to MeLo once I actually reach there I’ll probably wing it with 0 regret.

[GuyInFreezer]

Like pretend to go over things and quote random shit
But ultimately leave it up to my gut, place a vote within 3 rl days and call it a game.

[Kate Bishop]

y'all are really making me want to get this right today.

[GuyInFreezer]

y'all are really making me want to get this right today.

I dunno my elo decisions are p accurate. I think I made a wrong decision in elo only once.

[GuyInFreezer]

But then, I’m recalibrating!

[Kate Bishop]

recalibration is a thing.

[Lukewarm]

also a deeper dive of Luke's posts.

If this is a "look at how town Luke is this game" post, then cool.

But if that is a "one of the two only people reading me correctly atm is second guessing their town read on me post" I will be letting myself be the elim today myself up for the elim today

So I am at, one of me/cabd should go today, no matter what (I have joined the crowd on this one I guess)

Because melo with 2 people scum reading me (cabd + gif) and 1 person on the fence (Kate) is not a world I want to live in. (This is assuming we kill lld, because people are scared of killing cabd).

And me flipping town would force the town inside of [gif, lld, cabd] to stop being waiting for me to die and actually try. Because other then Kate, no one feels like they are really trying atm

That is including me, to be fair. I have my solve, and I'm not looking back until cabd is dead. So like, I get that mindset, not trying to be rude with it. But I don't think an lld (or gif, I guess, but I don't see him going today) town flip would actually lead to a healthy melo state, because who ever lives of those is not gonna actually look at cabd I don't think.

[Kate Bishop]

we've done some rereading, particularly Gamma's posts, including his replace-in catch-up.

it's going to take a bit to wordz stuff, but it's incoming.

I've been working on this for hours and I'm coming up for air.

As well as his replace-in catchup, I took a close look at his interactions with Dunn (they were almost all initiated by Dunn), and interactions of note with other players, and thought about how I'd expect him to interact with his other scumbuddy. It's taken me through some strange looking glasses. Mostly I feel like he played Yomi level 1, except for the governor thing. I think the final scum is pissed off about his play. Or should be.

Anyway, I want to sleep on it and let notsci have a look tomorrow and then we'll post it.

And then I'll focus on my other assignment-to-self.

Cabd, I'd really like for you to shake off your mope and and work with us, at least on our homework assignments.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't know half of these characters so y'all decide.

Gabiru, Megumin, Kanna, Wanibe, Otto, Cerceus, Mizarisa, Chiho, Aira, Melty, Geordo, Pisto Shaz XI, Krusty, Millhiore, Knukcles, Aku, Oda Nobuna, Keita, Tiffania, Kumausa, Nokopara, Tomoe, Dimiurge, Poncho

All right, hair color and assumed gender, leggo.

Gabiru - no hair shown on picture, clearly a lizard or some sort of pterodactyl

Male

Megumin - brown hair, female explosion enthusiast
Kanna - white-purple gradient hair, female
Wanibe - no hair, dinosaur 2

Male

Otto - Grey, male?
Cerceus - Blonde, clearly male
Mizarisa - red hair, female
Chiho - Pinkish hair, female
Aira - brown (looks kinda red-ish in in picture), female
Melty - red, female
Geordo - blonde, male
Pisto Shaz XI - No hair, idek

Male

Krusty - Kinda beige? Male
Millhiore - Pink hair, female
Knuckles - defo red hair, Echidna
Aku - yellow, female?
Oda - yellow, female
Keita - blonde, male?

male name, did not google

Tiffania - blonde, female
Kumausa - pink animal, probably female?

Presumably - voiced by females

Nokopara - blonde hair, definitely female
Tomoe - blue hair, uh male?

Female

Demiurge - dark brown hair, male
Poncho - brown hair, male

To be exact

- Is your character a female
- Does your character have red hair
- Is your character Oda Nobuna

S_S picked Oda. Silhouette picked Knucles.

Females, sorted by hair color:
Megumin - brown hair, female explosion enthusiast

From the same anime as S_S's uPick Aqua

Aira - brown (looks kinda red-ish in in picture), female

I can't find any pictures where her hair looks red

Mizarisa - red hair, female

Millhiore - Pink hair, female
Chiho - Pinkish hair, female

I can see this one being described as red. It is a pale color that is closest to orange but not quite pink or red.

Kumausa - pink animal, probably female?
Kanna - white-purple gradient hair, female

Tiffania - blonde, female
Nokopara - blonde hair, definitely female

Can't find this character, assuming that blonde and yellow hair would receive 'yes' to same questions based on Tiffania's hair

Aku - yellow, female?
Oda - yellow, female

Tomoe - blue hair, uh male? Female
Melty - red, female

I could only find a Melty with very plainly blue/purple hair - is this the Melty from the guess who? Moved melty down here to go with Tomoe

Spoiler: Melty image

So it seems like if scum asked "is your character's hair red" and guessed Oda Nobuna on no, I can only think they were assuming S_S picked one of the girls with an exposed bra. If that was their line of reasoning, I don't see why they would ask about red hair rather than blonde hair. I'm not sure about this.

Additionally, there is a 13-11 split of females and males. This close to 50-50, obviously, but I can't help but wonder why jjh would do this when balancing the genders 50-50 is about the easiest thing you can do when trying to make a balanced game of Guess Who? Working on the theory that GiF possibly replaced a male with a female (which would be Oda Nobuna). However, if this really was the split, selecting a blonde female is probably ideal because it provides the most "cover" - it is safe to assume each player will start by asking about gender because it removes the most possibilities, then hair color is probably the next-best question, so selecting the majority hair color within the majority gender is ideal for cover, even if it is "easier" for your opponent to get "yes" responses.

Right now I'm kinda leaning towards eliminate GiF but don't do it with the exact bets he says he made. Let's swap around a couple of the voters. If someone else is scum it's unlikely they guessed GiF, and if GiF is scum I just worry about a secret wincon that I want to avoid by deviating slightly. If he is town he should still win the "game" if we only change a couple of votes around.

There's also the concern about Dunnstral - why did he kill N1? Why didn't scum use LLD? I guess there is a concern about a roleblocker, but I feel like maybe they couldn't do it while GiF was gone.

Also, if I were town in GiF's position, I still put my bet on Cabd, because I have the advantage over scum of being able to publicly reveal my bet and tell everyone exactly how to vote. In GiF's shoes, I would have done something like bet that I (GiF) would vote someone unexpected like Luke or Kate (not safe to bet on Wheme or Kyouko in case they die), and bet that everyone else will vote Cabd. Maybe also bet that Kate (someone I TR) votes me (GiF). Then I explain the bet, put my vote on Cabd, and let everyone else (besides Cabd) vote as I bet. If Cabd is scum, the other 4 town will eliminate him. If someone else is scum who doesn't want to lose the bet, they might try to vote elsewhere but this could be tantamount to openwolfing, so they would probably have to concede and vote where GiF said to. even if they refuse and Cabd has to hammer himself, at best, scum could tie with GiF, unless they correctly guessed GiF would go for this strategy and correctly guess where GiF decided to bet his own vote would go. Then scum could win by 1 point because of their own vote being where they wanted it. But then it becomes obvious if the one dissident resulted in scum winning advantage that that dissident is scum.

Basically, GiF's bet doesn't make sense, and there are some shaky details with the dead thread. I feel like scum!GiF has been going for the mechanical clear so we should just lim him in a slightly different configuration

[ssbm_Kyouko]

GIF gets limmed.
Kate Bishop votes for GIF.
Cabd votes for GIF.
GIF votes for GIF.
Lukewarm votes for GIF.
LLD votes no elim.
ssbm_Kyouko votes no elim.

So this was the bet - let's swap one of the GiF voters for no elim voter. Swap Luke or Kate with either myself or LLD

[GuyInFreezer]

…You do realize that if I’m scum being limmed is game over, right?

[GuyInFreezer]

Like you are speaking of being mechanically clear by… getting myself limmed.