newbie 2080: correct statements (this is over)

[Galron]

Margot is a dead null.

[Galron]

I'm starting to develop a rough poi, and she's not quite in it yet.

[Thynhith]

@Val
First off, welcome to the thread! Any amount of posting will be infinitely better than your predecessor, and cheerfully scrutinized.
Can I get your opinion on Margot vs Cook? I got the impression that exchange wasn't town vs town.
About the potential AI of Cook's strat, my opinion is:
"It's been used by town as well, and I'm not surprised scum!cook would suggest it considering it's low success rates, but potential towncred. Well the strat is NAI, but if Cook were pushing it too hard, then you might have something."
Why would've another town player have used the strat in another game if it offered an advantage to scum? I find it hard to believe the strat is AI, while Cook's lack of other content is far more telling.

[Galron]

I have to have some admiration for someone who's active listened to more than 1200a albums in the last few years. That's impessive. My musical tastes run wide, and I'm sure I could find that many albums or more to listen to. But active listening is another matter. That sounds like it could either be work or a way to meditate.

[Galron]

Going by post count at the time you TR'd me, I didn't have much content yet but I've been locktown'd for less, so it's nothing that pings me atm. I'd only be suspicious of it if I was a major scum read, I've said this in other games but scum love to town read me and defend me when I look scummy to get that sweet town cred if/when I flip green.

Tbh I'm more interested in who you scum read since Spangled is a town lean for you now.

I'll get to your question -- sorry I missed it. But I got the impression the first game I was in with you that you were LHF. I found out in other games that you are a strong player, so I don't know if the LHF game was larping or just an off-game. My guess is it was just a game you weren't into.

Spangled I'm back and forth on. Facebones leaning scum. Val leaning scum (very lightly bc of little content and I don't remember what the predecessor did)

[Val89]

I very much so dislike that PoE from DArby.

Very much so dislike it.

I'm guessing you ain't going to like the fact I am also leaning the same way.

I dislike Spangled. I know he has picked up a TR from a few players based on volume, that appears to be driven by Cook; the other player on this list I am having serious doubts about.

Looking closer, however, and that fluff:substance ratio that was spoken about appears skewed strongly in the fluff direction. There are entire runs of posts, 16 through 20 as an example, where I struggle to pick out a salient game-advancing point - 'Cook might be scum, then again, she might not - confidence might be towntell, might not' etc.

There is an awful lot of "X, what do you think of Y?" posts; and in general, I am detecting a vibe of someone who cares a fair bit about what other players think of his slot - ref #83, #89 and 90 (this one particularly got my back up - something that seems to paraphrase as "yeah, voting me is anti-town, but what else is he doing" is just..odd), #153; as well as the general defensiveness in the last couple of posts. I don't like it one bit.

I like Cook more lately, I thought the pressure vote on MargotRosa was good

Margot Rosa’s not looking that great, so far, but there’s not enough to read her on really truly
I thought 161 was awful
I mean, ‘calling out bad plays’ but so far the only ‘bad play’ she’s ‘called out’ has been Cook’s
just the tone in general isn’t great
I don’t know, I really want to see how her read on Cook evolves over time

I don't know. I'm worried this is a little too easy; but I really don't like Cook nor Spangled, either separately or together. Spangled certainly seems focused primarily on how his own slot is perceived, followed by Cooks. I don't know if I am ready to call this game solved, just because it seems too easy, but I'm willing to go on record and say if there isn't at least ONE scum in that pair, I will be very surprised.

That said, the Cook V MargotRosa spat, as much as it was, seems genuine enough for me to say I'm reasonably confident that it wasn't Scum theatre, so that's at least some progress.

[Galron]

That's better content.

[Galron]

The thing about X asking what Y thinks about Z has been in my head too.

[Thynhith]

I'm flip flopping on Spangled.

Val89's catchup posts, if that's what they are, underwhelm me. Cook's strategy isn't going to be implemented, and while it's fine to talk about players' reactions to the proposal, focusing on the substance of the strategy is futile, and I believe of little value when it comes to reads. (Maybe other than Cook's, but I haven't seen it yet)

Terse and dispassionate is actually a good description of me, Spangled. Unless I get a couple of drinks in me

Quite frankly, they're not any more underwhelming than your posts. There's no issue with you being "terse and dispassionate," but nearly all your posts lack substance. You've posted many one-liners that add nothing of value, and your responses to questions seem to be dodging an answer, rather than an answer proper. I'd expect town to be sharing views and analyzing posts, not giving off vague impression reads. All anti-town. Would love to see some reasons for your Spangled read?

pedit: I love how you're sheeping Val

Spoiler:

I'm townleaning spangles.

weren’t you scumreading me before? what’s changed?

A re-read of the game.

What did you see, in your reread?

A hint you may be town.

Margot is a dead null.

I don't understand the town reads on facebones

Unless that person is Cook, because how can you be alert to an open wolf if you don't feel like reading their lengthy posts?

This proposes that you aren't reading her posts also.

Facebones, can you show me how my not reading those posts leads to me not being aware of their contents?

Giving Roden a town read.

galron I'm not sure how you came to that read after only 5 posts, can you explain your thinking? you mentioned you were a "town hunter" before

Now you're here Galron, still waiting to see why you townread Roden?

A little more familiarty with him.

[Thynhith]

EBWOP More specifically: why the swing in read of Spangled?
What makes you lean scum on Facebones, do any of his posts stand out to you?

[Thynhith]

That said, the Cook V MargotRosa spat, as much as it was, seems genuine enough for me to say I'm reasonably confident that it wasn't Scum theatre, so that's at least some progress.

Are you ruling out town vs scum for that one?
Also I'd love to check which of Spangled's posts you're referencing, but the links lead to another thread, can you repost those?

[Val89]

Technically, I guess you could argue Spangled asking X what they think about Y could go some way to helping Spangled sort slot X, like he claims to do in this exchange, in relation to Facebones:

if he were scum, me asking him if he thought DArby was whiteknighting me was me essentially giving scum!him a plausible-sounding read that he could use to introduce discord in the town
it was a great opportunity for scum!him to jump on DArby, but he didn’t
of course he could have just been playing it safe, but I think it’s still a point in his favour

For the record, Facebones response was:

I mean, I guess there's a chance. I have accused people of whiteknighting in the past and been rather embarrassed about the whole ordeal afterwards though. Due to that, and because it's still early stages, I'm gonna put it down to being NAI

"I guess there is a chance" doesn't read like the disavowal Spangled would have us beleive.

142 could be construed as buddying, but I’m confident in my facebones read so far, and I ask others to deny its logic

I will. As above, I think it's a very weak reason to TR someone, particulary with that ISO, and the fact that Spangled actually

prompted

the exchange, by specifically asking if he thought D'Arby was whiteknighting smells like Spangled trying hard to set up a townread that wasn't, and still isn't, justified. FB is null for me, and I fail to find reasons to justify anything different. In short, I think it WAS buddying, or else evidence of TMI on Spangled's part.

[Thynhith]

Erm what does TMI stand for?

[Cook]

too much information

[Galron]

EBWOP More specifically: why the swing in read of Spangled?
What makes you lean scum on Facebones, do any of his posts stand out to you?

wrt to Spangled, whoever pointed out fluff to substance ratio got me thinking

I'll get to facebones when they get back to me

[Val89]

Are you ruling out town vs scum for that one?

No, I am ruling out Cook v Margot as Scum v Scum. I'm pretty confident they aren't the pair. It's possible they are both town but I've enough misgivings about Cook to put my initial vote there, and that leads me to Margot basically leaning town by default, as it were.

Let my try again with those links:

I am detecting a vibe of someone who cares a fair bit about what other players think of his slot - ref #83, #89 and 90 (this one particularly got my back up - something that seems to paraphrase as "yeah, voting me is anti-town, but what else is he doing" is just..odd), #153; as well as the general defensiveness in the last couple of posts. I don't like it one bit. "

If it's easier; here are the direct quotes from each that ping me:

Spoiler: Ping!

also, could you case me?

maybe you see my tone as bad, which is fair, I guess, but at the very least I’ve asked for opinions on subjects, which is the most game-advancing thing anyone’s done so far

Why do you think Galron’s anti-town, DArby?
like he’s voting me, but what has he done that’s anti-town?

still, I’ve made about 50 posts so far, take away those fifty-odd posts and we’d be on page 5

too much information

Correct. I am suggesting it's possible Spangled is able to hold such a strong, and in my opinion unjustified, townread on Facebones because he actually knows for a fact FB is town because he ain't in the scumthread with him.

[Val89]

After articulating my issues, I'm now a little bit more confident in seeing a red flip with respect to Spangled than I am Cook, although it is close, and I do think it's possible that's just the scumpair, gg.

It's late here, so I will sleep on it and revisit in the morning; but I am giving consideration to moving my vote to Spangled in order to properly indicate how I feel here. I'll also try and give some thoughts on the other slots.

[Spangled]

I am detecting a vibe of someone who cares a fair bit about what other players think of his slot

yeah, that is a weakness of mine, both in mafia and in real life
it skews my decision-making, in both areas

[Spangled]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

[DArby]

After articulating my issues, I'm now a little bit more confident in seeing a red flip with respect to Spangled than I am Cook, although it is close, and I do think it's possible that's just the scumpair, gg.

It's late here, so I will sleep on it and revisit in the morning; but I am giving consideration to moving my vote to Spangled in order to properly indicate how I feel here. I'll also try and give some thoughts on the other slots.

I feel so validated right now.

A bit too validated if you ask me.

Regardless, I think we'd get more from a Cook d1 flip than a Spangled d1 flip.

[DArby]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

My point still stands

[Spangled]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

My point still stands :mrgreen:

pffft come on :P

[DArby]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

My point still stands

pffft come on

I say that somewhat jokingly.

This is nothing personal against your play-style but I wanted to push you to see what'd I'd find and sadly i don't think it was incredibly town of you.

[Roden]

Oh shit nice, Val subbed in. I've played with him twice, though I was scum both times. I think he's a pretty strong player with a notably high amount of WIM factor, and I'm already kinda seeing it as I skim the thread.

Gonna start catching up with replies.

[Roden]

I do think it's funny Galron said he isn't pocketing me and then town read me soon afterward lol. But going off his past games I don't think scum!Galron would do that. And no I'm not trying to get comfy in his pocket here.

Is it that you don’t think he’d do that as scum, and he must be therefore town, or just that it’s something he could do as town?
(which leaves him open to being scum, of course)

‘cause that’s a small reason to rule him out of being scum; a small reason to essentially locktown him

I never said anything about him being lock town.

I've played a few games with him now, and I'm just starting to pick up on his general tone. I think it's easy to scum read him due to his tone, but it softens a bit when he's scum and he falls a bit more into the background. This is just an assumption but it seems like a natural self-preservation thing to me.

So for me I guess it's less that he town read me off of so little and more because his tone so far is a bit of a meta tell. I'm not town locking him but he's definitely a town read for me.

@Roden about your meta tell of Galron, do you feel it has changed at all? How confident are you of it? It sounds like not a great deal of difference between scum!Galron and town!Galron. And he does seem to have fallen "into the background" as you say, though hard to say how much.
Imo his tone would normally indicate scuminess - his posts are abrupt and dispassionate, and he seems to be not contributing much, nor engaging. What's your current read of him?

I mainly just want more reads out of him, but looking ahead after this was posted he does start posting more content and giving genuine takes on more things that have happened. So I feel confident enough that I'd say he's never the D1 elim. I don't think my read on him is gonna change much today unless he does something blatantly scummy. I don't really agree that he's falling into the background though, I can recall his posts better than say, Facebones' or Margot's.

Which I guess sounds like I'm shading those two but I genuinely don't remember much of what they've said this game other than being against Cook's strat.