Large normal 236 [Game over]

[LicketyQuickety]

crazy because these 3 names all ping my scumdar atm

That's nice. So what exactly is Scummy about what I am doing? Or are you just succumbing to your feelings about you not liking that I'm not sheeping you?

You voted a counterwagon to scum.

Why should I even townread you?

I suppose you are assuming Town never vote for a counter wagon to Scum. That seems to be your argument. Let's see, who isn't just going along with everything you say? Oh, right that's me. Still think I am doing that as Scum? Do Scum normally play so controversially? These are questions you are not asking so I am asking them for you.

BTW, I was the first person in D2 who thought Nero was Scum.

That's cool - but half of my point is that I have no reason to even trust your reads here because you are refusing to acknowledge that you are not in a position to be the loud and leading one out of pride. If you look at my towngames, when I hardpush a townie and miss or fail to get onto a scum wagon because i am snowed by them or whatever reason, I do actually show humility next dayphase. I know the last time we played i was very loltown - but I've improved a *ton* since then.

Where did I indicate people should trust my reads? This is not a power trip kind of game; it's an analytical game.

[DkKoba]

ok i read like 4 posts from cool cookie and i think they're like pretty townie ngl.

high complex thought process that is also natural/not agenda driven.

especially liked their reaction to my calling them in a solve I threw out with their own name in it as well as an already flipped scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is not a power trip kind of game; it's an analytical game.

Nope, it's an battle for influence.
Mafia lost that battle on day 1.

[DkKoba]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

that's exactly what i was implying. or to frame it differently, if scum aren't doing that, it's a strategic error.

What is your read on SSB Andres. Do you scumread them?

Here’s my take - the reason I haven’t defended Kyouko aggressively despite seriously questioning Koba is because if I’m wrong about Koba (and I can be - Koba is notoriously hard to read) is because Kyouko admitted that Koba has their number, and yet they’re not screaming

hard

to get Koba executed. There’s not a whole lot of outrage in 461 or 480 for example. Just some surprise, a rather meek admission that Koba does have Kyouko’s number, and some strategic discussion about how Koba might go about using their 100% read rate to their advantage as Scum.

I am comfortable applying the burden of proficiency standard to a select

few

players. The number is small, and since I haven’t played here enough most of those players are in the old forum I used to play in. Koba is in that list. I have a feeling Kyouko agrees that the standard should apply to Koba too. If that’s indeed the case, then why aren’t they more outraged that Koba is reading them wrong and hard dunking on them? And why are they letting me take all the heat here? I’ve been in games with players I know can easily tell when I’m Town. I know how that feels like. And when they’re hedging on my slot (and I’m acting like my usual Town self), or even worse, calling me Scum, I obviously get suspicious. I’m always skeptical even if you have me right, but with some players it becomes more obvious when they should be reading you correctly but aren’t.

At the same time, I have seen Koba get some things wrong (of course, none of us are perfect). But after screaming this loud for an execution? I think that’s maybe a bit rare. If we flip Kyouko, and they flip Scum, Koba is going to get NK’ed and well, that’ll be that. But if they’re wrong? Then what? That’s going to be hard. What I’ve done in the past in situations like this is advocated for the “1v1” to get sorted, and go from there. I don’t know that I’m the one who should be making this argument. But I think it should be considered.

this is pretty bad, especially in a Koba-Kyouko TvT world.

Could you explain why you think this is bad? I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter.

in essence, it's saying:

Flip Kyouko today. if town, flip Koba tomorrow. potentially setting up multiple mis-elims, under the guise of "dkkoba is always right".

more generally, selectively applying 'burden of proficiency' is a real easy mafia tactic. would be interesting to know if the consensus/evidence from past games is that andres does hold koba in such high esteem.

nah yeah cookie is town - this is like anti-TMI

[DkKoba]

concentrating power into a select few people who are objectively town is actually a Good Play in a Large, actually.

[DkKoba]

holy shit why did i ever think cookie was scum, their iso feels so pure??

[DkKoba]

maybe Rannygazoo is not all bad - i like some of the earlier stuff. but some hint of knowing more than he should, and an interesting evolution in thoughts overall. basically rannygazoo begins with a bit of stand-offishness towards the claimed masons, then rueful at 2 potential town loudplayers on the same page, and finally capitulates and sheeps with no diguise. some other points i noted...

Spoiler:

Can we stop this shitty wagon on town!Dwlee and many sus slots defending scum!SSBM for dumb reasons.

I do not vibe with this. I don’t think Norwee has enough towncred to make demands like this.

But prove me wrong. Why should we wagon Kyo, aside from Koba’s intuition for meta? I can’t read her by myself since all she’s done is talk about catching up, followed by a whole lot of not catching up. I just don’t like to vote based on someone else’s vibes unless I have nothing better to go on.

the cynic in me wonders if this is asking for a case to piggyback on, given where we end up...

the walkback on SSB:

@Koba and @Nowree once we put this behind us, what is next on the agenda? Elim SSB immediately or wait for their V/LA to end?

Andres, I’ve read through and seen you complain about weak votes from Norwee and Titus, and people reading your meta wrong.

Would it be fair to say you’ve been caught for the wrong reasons?

This looks weird to me, anyon eplayed with Ranny before? It feels like the classic "fairish" scumtell, also the words dont seem to match the intent.

Like what is expected here Ranny? What do you expect Andre's to say and what do you get from that? This feels snipish.

We have pages of discussion about you and this is one of the few things you want to focus on? I’ve been trying to stay prudent and keep the game level-headed and this makes me feel like I was wrong to do so. Smdh my head.

VOTE: SSB

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think Koba is town and scum are sheeping, or do you think Koba is scum trying to strongarm the game?

this is a red flag - it was very clear i think that i was implying the former, so setting up the latter may be a bit of misrep/distancing from the truth.

I don’t think Norwee is the move today.

On the contrary, if we had ended the day so early, I would have taken it much more seriously that y’all might be scum trying to strongarm the game, regardless of the flip.

still on the strongarming. maybe TMI.

also like really fucking mindmelding with this post


tbh - feel ready to welcome cookie into the townblock if the rest are ok with it.

[LicketyQuickety]

This is not a power trip kind of game; it's an analytical game.

Nope, it's an battle for influence.
Mafia lost that battle on day 1.

You can play that way if you want. I prefer to keep my head about me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Tbh i was never super scumreading Cookie, but i thought voting them and having a wagon on them would make them spew either town or scum.

[DkKoba]

@norwee/dwlee/a50 thats you 3 atm

especially 100% put cool cookie as cleared town on ranny scumflip.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm ok with town on them for now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is not a power trip kind of game; it's an analytical game.

Nope, it's an battle for influence.
Mafia lost that battle on day 1.

You can play that way if you want. I prefer to keep my head about me.

Don't get me wrong. I have respect for analytical play and having good reads.
But having good reads doesn't matter if you can't actually push it through and make people join you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee can you take a look at ranny's ISO for me and tell me if you think he's just bussing people / TMIing?

I need to start doing this. Brb.

[LicketyQuickety]

@norwee/dwlee/a50 thats you 3 atm

especially 100% put cool cookie as cleared town on ranny scumflip.

Why is DW Town? I think the argument is that they had conviction but they were playing a whole lot different in the Newbie I was playing with them. It was like Dr. Jackal and Mr. Hyde. Like they had split personalities depending on what game they were posting in. I was waiting for that other game to end to say this, but I noticed it while we were playing. Basically, DW was acting in this game and they were not actually as fired up as it appeared.

[Mama Ru]

Claim and then ask people to vote you?
Is it just performative or do you seriously expect that to just work and then you'd hit the mafia?

Do we believe this claim to be true?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

I have reason to believe they are not BP.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Claim and then ask people to vote you?
Is it just performative or do you seriously expect that to just work and then you'd hit the mafia?

Do we believe this claim to be true?

You tell me.

[DkKoba]

dwlee is town because:
a) they're in their townrange
b) they don't have distinct scum/town meta, they are actually fairly similar but i do not believe you know the difference like I do. (a recent mini finished where I noticed it)
c) they were early on kyouko with us
d) there was no kill and no one else has spoken up about why that is. i.e. no roleblocker or doc has claim, and they claimed BP. mechanically this is pretty sound.

[DkKoba]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

I have reason to believe they are not BP.

then fucking claim your result lmfao

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

I have reason to believe they are not BP.

then fucking claim your result lmfao

I'm N2N3 Commuter.

[DkKoba]

don't hide shit and then expect people to *know*

you are never getting nightkilled this game and it would be a boon if you did.

[LicketyQuickety]

don't hide shit and then expect people to *know*

you are never getting nightkilled this game and it would be a boon if you did.

Ad homs already eh?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

I have reason to believe they are not BP.

then fucking claim your result lmfao

I'm N2N3 Commuter.

Why is that a reason they aren't BP? i don't see it.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is DW Town?

They claimed some bulletproof role or something and there was no kill on night 1.

I have reason to believe they are not BP.

then fucking claim your result lmfao

I'm N2N3 Commuter.

Why is that a reason they aren't BP? i don't see it.

How many protections against NKs do you think is reasonable?