newbie 2080: correct statements (this is over)

[Galron]

First, you say this...

Margot really doesn't like rvs.

...which makes me think you are paying attention and have spotted some of same stuff in Margots posting. +10 town points.

Then you go and vote Mew

Is that another one of these moments?

I'm interested in the fluff:substance ratio.

wrt to Spangled, whoever pointed out fluff to substance ratio got me thinking

I don't understand what 176 and 239 are indicative of to you.

[Val89]

I just chuckled, imagining you talking to yourself.

[Thynhith]

Sorry I've been out of town (pardon the pun) for the last few days, but I have reread or skimmed the entirety of D1 so far.
"Spangled, on the other hand is much more straightforward, and everything else aside, if they aren't the pair; and I have to decide if I am in a newbie game where mafia is trying to scam us with a ridiculous display of open-wolfing, or a more traditional nervous newbscum just slipping here and there slightly, and I think that being honest with myself I have to conclude the latter as more probable."
Val the issue I have here is I think you're tunneling too hard. You're picking up on lots of small "tells" here and there and it looks like a plausible newbscum. I see much of this attributed to personal playstyle. Which posts do you think have a nervous tone to them? His constant questioning seems like his choice, rather than aiming to misdirect town. I would say he is scumleaning at most, and certainly more pro-town than Galron. Both of them I wouldn't lim D1.
My preference for D1 would be Cook, on account of the questionable strat she pushed. I'm not willing to support any wagon yet tho - I feel there's a scum we're not seeing

[Thynhith]

@Val can I get your opinion on the possibility of scum!Darby?
I'm starting to sound like spangled now, aren't I?
Yeah I've pretty much decided now - barring anything unexpectedly damning, my top preference is Cook. VOTE: Cook
Val I dislike how you initially zoned in on her strat, and I'm not comfortable using that alone, but it's her other anti-town behaviour that makes scum!Cook much more likely (periodic lurking, no substance, refusal to cooperate, etc)

[Val89]

Val the issue I have here is I think you're tunneling too hard. You're picking up on lots of small "tells" here and there and it looks like a plausible newbscum.

It's possible. The issue is that in most games scum don't walk in and announce themselves (which is exactly why I decided to vote Spangled over Cook, in the end), scum do reveal themselves by way of small tells here and there.

Which posts do you think have a nervous tone to them? His constant questioning seems like his choice, rather than aiming to misdirect town.

I'm not taking issue with the questioning in and of itself. The 'nervousness' is in how his own slot is being received, and he seems to have been keen to remind us of all the townie things other people said he had been doing. I give examples in the spoiler of 240; which he then owns up to in 242. I admit the mere fact of acknowledging it works in his favour, but I think it wouldn't have gone well for him to deny it, given how self-evident it has been.

Town don't usually worry about how your slot is being perceived - that's a scum trait. Fine, you would rather avoid getting mislimmed if you can help it, and people can get defensive under pressure, but it's not normally a priority to solicit feedback on your own standing, or remind how towny you are.

[Val89]

@Val can I get your opinion on the possibility of scum!Darby?

I'll give my initial opinions on all the slots, if you like.

I'm townreading

DArby

. I think I got a little advantage on this one because I replaced in. I was reading a game already in progress, and while doing so, I found on more than one occasion the thoughts and questions I had were being often asked by DArby a couple of posts later. I've found this in other games and considered it a towntell, and it hasn't let me down yet. He also seems to be trying to drive the day towards an elimination even if have a slight disagreement on whom is the better choice for today (cf 181, 270). That might not always be a +town thing, but it has been directed against legitimately scummy players, and I think scum would be more content to let this game stall out a bit, which it has potential to do.

I'm also townreading

Roden

, because I've lost 2 of my games to a scum!Roden now, and recently, so I think if there was any funny business going on with respect to him, I think I would be hyper alert to it. I felt like I was having my ego massaged a little bit when I entered, but the feeling is mutual, I think he is an excellent player too, else I wouldn't be losing to him, and apart from that, I haven't seen anything that pings me.

Roden does say in his last post that he doesn't "feel great about Darby's alignment", so I have looked since at what scummy things DArby has been accused of, and I don't agree. Margot seems to be the only one with justification, and it's extremely weak to my eyes. To describe 14, or 72 and the correction of a formatting issue in 73 as "ISO filler" is really stretching it. The only thing that might legitimately be criticised was the Spangled E-2 vote at 59, but it was explained (and unvoted) at 71 when pointed out; and I'm willing to accept that explanation over it being a scum motivated attempt at securing a quick hammer on page 3. How many games do scum

actually

manage to pull that off and not immediately get the boot next day? Not many, I'll wager.

I don't really think I have enough of a handle on you,

Thynhith

, or

Facebones

, to call you anything other than null. Certainly I think Spangled's TR on Facebones was unjustified, and if it is TMI, that makes them townleaning, which is one thing I think we might get out of a Spangled flip today.

MargotRosa, I said I was townleaning by default because of her spat with Cook not feeling SvS, but I've not liked her justification on her reads much, but apparently she was only considering the first 5 pages, so we shall see. I'm feeling

MargotRosa

a little more scumleaning of late as a result.

Galron is a bit of an enigma for me right now. I see reasons to call it both ways. He says and does things that makes me think he isn't paying all that much attention to the game, or else is just anti-town if true, like 81, and then says some insightful stuff in a couple of words which make it clear HE is following and thinking in the same directions I am, like and 295. If you had to pin me down right now, I would say overall

Galron

is a very slight townlean as of now, but I have oscillated a little bit with this slot.

You know my opinions on

Spanged

, and

Cook

. I think that covers everything.

[Galron]

Okay I think Word has made a convicing push, where I haven't been as thorough as he.

VOTE: cook

[Galron]

ofc that assumes word is town, but day 1 I'm willing to take that

[DArby]

Cook. You’re now at e-2. If you have any better defense nows the time to use it. We only have 3 days left.

[Thynhith]

Phew I was not expecting a full read list, but I'll take it. Fairly reassuring that you have similar reads to me (or maybe too reassuring). I considered Roden and Darby to be townleaning, though I don't have your prior experience with them to say that with as much confidence. Mainly because they the ones pushing people and contributing discussion, consistently. As for Facebones and Margot, I still consider them both null, who lack enough content for me to be sure. Margot's interaction with Cook seemed genuine enough, so I don't think her misreads make her scumleaning. Galron I consider scumleaning, and I'm not sure I could justify reading him as town with such blatantly anti-town behavior. "make it clear HE is following and thinking in the same directions I am, like and 295" is rather ironic because he immediately follows 295 with

VOTE: mewtaph

What say you, mew?

..showing he missed something as important as a replacement.
Anyways, those are my thoughts. Already said how Spangled is too ambiguous to lim now. I'm very curious about how Cook will flip, and about who gets NKd.

[Thynhith]

Okay I think Word has made a convicing push, where I haven't been as thorough as he.

VOTE: cook

Who is Word? guessing that's not an acronym

[Thynhith]

UNVOTE: Cook
Unvoting until near EoD, in case someone lolhammers

[Thynhith]

Ah crap it looks like I miscounted, with this VOTE: Cook, you're back at E-2.

Cook. You’re now at e-2. If you have any better defense nows the time to use it. We only have 3 days left.

[Galron]

Okay I think Word has made a convicing push, where I haven't been as thorough as he.

VOTE: cook

Who is Word? guessing that's not an acronym

Apologies. Mixed him up with another player.

[Galron]

UNVOTE: Cook
Unvoting until near EoD, in case someone lolhammers

Ah crap it looks like I miscounted, with this VOTE: Cook, you're back at E-2.

Cook. You’re now at e-2. If you have any better defense nows the time to use it. We only have 3 days left.

Huh?

You acknowledge that Cook is at lolhammer territory, then you make surprise that Cook's at E2 after your unvote.

[Thynhith]

UNVOTE: Cook
Unvoting until near EoD, in case someone lolhammers

Ah crap it looks like I miscounted, with this VOTE: Cook, you're back at E-2.

Cook. You’re now at e-2. If you have any better defense nows the time to use it. We only have 3 days left.

Huh?

You acknowledge that Cook is at lolhammer territory, then you make surprise that Cook's at E2 after your unvote.

No, no. Cook was never in lolhammer territory, but I miscounted and thought she was at E-1 so I unvoted. I'm revoting because that puts her at E-2, not E-1.

Okay I think Word has made a convicing push, where I haven't been as thorough as he.

VOTE: cook

Who is Word? guessing that's not an acronym

Apologies. Mixed him up with another player.

Who's "him"? You couldn't be less verbose if you tried.

[Roden]

I don't think any of the players here would lolhammer, and if any did I'd consider it a scum claim regardless of Cook's alignment flip, since it doesn't really seem like it's in anyone's town range. I'm tempted to put Cook at E-1 just to see if anyone actually would fall for it, but honestly I'd rather she just start defending herself. I don't understand the silence on her end, like what's the point of it here? She has to know it just makes her look bad, so why is she doing it?

[Cook]

let's not do my strategy this game

next time sure

not this one

i've tried to make it clear by my disinterest in my own wagon that you're in the wrong place

uhh

no thoughts

head empty

this is not an optimal way to try to talk your fellow players down

[DArby]

let's not do my strategy this game

next time sure

not this one

i've tried to make it clear by my disinterest in my own wagon that you're in the wrong place

uhh

no thoughts

head empty

this is not an optimal way to try to talk your fellow players down

Okay, that’s all the time I’ve got. I got to get back to playing Animal Crossing New Leaf on my Nintendo 3DS.

Let's just end this day plz n thk u

[DArby]

I'll be incredibly disappointed if Cook flips green and only joined this game to break a newbie setup vs actually scumhunting.

Like so disappointed.

[DArby]

Fuck me sideways and call me Susan I actually want to get off the wagon I've been pushing all d1.

Eh, I'll sleep on it.

[Spangled]

I don't think any of the players here would lolhammer, and if any did I'd consider it a scum claim regardless of Cook's alignment flip, since it doesn't really seem like it's in anyone's town range.

eh this is some people’s first games, I think
or no actually just Thynhith’s IIRC, and he doesn’t seem like he’d lolhammer, but there’s a first time for everything
he could be a lolhammerer in the making!

[Spangled]

I agree with Val’s assessment that Cook putting forward the same strategy as she did in the scumgame, essentially the same exact one, is incredibly scummy.
This could be a bus, but Cook wasn’t under

that

much pressure before Val repped in, and Val could have just left out the whole Cook thing and gone straight for me, no repercussions and no consequences because after all, ‘he was just trying to elim scum’.
By no means does it rule out Val being scum, but I think there’s no way this is SvS.

[Spangled]

As to the Facebones read — he did the

towniest

things

that

had

been done so far, damnit, at least

to

my eyes; you may think differently but disagreeing on reads shouldn’t be a part of your

scumcase

of someone.

You

have to think back to what it was like, on

page

5 or whatever, whenever I made that Facebones read. Galron had said one-liners and little else — huh actually maybe nothing’s changed here — and by and large all we’d talked about was Cook’s strategy. Very little that was

AI

there. Sure Roden had been

helpful

but anyone can post links or be helpful; scum often do it earlygame to get some sweet, sweet cheap towncred.

Not

that Roden’s scum, and not that that kinda stuff can’t aid town, but it’s not AI-

enough

, if you know what I mean.

Then Facebones comes in, and

snap

question

snap

question, poking and prodding, trying to see why people are doing what. Which is towny, imo; the best way to

catch

scum is to force them to take stances on things so that later in the game you can see if their progression makes sense, or has an ulterior motive. And when I first played scum in mafia I found those questions incredibly intimidating; they would stress me out and I’d

slip

up. That’s why I try to ask questions; it helps doubly, triply. And he had some of the same thoughts that I had, which I think is towny. Mindmeld can’t happen with scum — at least, I hope. There wasn’t much of it yet, but I wanted more; having someone in mafia who you’ll back you up and who backs you up feels so good. So maybe there was some wishful thinking there, sure.

But I still think that for his little post count Facebones has been pretty

towny

, and pending some kind of reread I’ll stick with it.

[Spangled]

As to the Facebones read — he did the

towniest

things

that

had

been done so far, damnit, at least

to

my eyes; you may think differently but disagreeing on reads shouldn’t be a part of your

scumcase

of someone.

and, yeah, it’s not that

simple

, but that’s still a part of your read, IIRC