Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

[cool cookie]

in a vacuum it's certainly possible in a normal game

maybe, but i dunno if it's likely. i'm not a regular but it feels weird, especially in a game where one player is specifically informed about bulletproof scum. generally speaking, i would hope mods don't deliberately make setups as awkward as possible to try and trip us up. i think more likely 1 is just lying

[Save The Dragons]

stranger things, buddy

[Jacket]

The only proof we have of the existence of a bulletproof traitor is cool cookie's word. In a world where the bulletproof traitor is one of the neighbors with town, that puts them in an automatic CC on day 1. Does that make any sense as good setup design? Because it sounds terrible to me. Mafia would be put in a losing position from the start.

And if the neighbors were both mafia...wouldn't the traitor just claim to the other one?

Neither idea makes much sense to me.

[Save The Dragons]

not sure i follow the first one but i'll give you that it's unlikely to be {scum, traitor}

[T3]

mods do try to make confusing setups

[cool cookie]

In a world where the bulletproof traitor is one of the neighbors with town, that puts them in an automatic CC on day 1. Does that make any sense as good setup design? Because it sounds terrible to me. Mafia would be put in a losing position from the start.
at
And if the neighbors were both mafia...wouldn't the traitor just claim to the other one?

Neither idea makes much sense to me.

I'm not sure what this line of enquiry is meant to achieve? You're assuming that the traitor is one of the neighbours - which is possible, but not something I'm assuming. I've already explained why I don't think traitor-scum and team-scum is a likely neighbour pair - aside from the fact it would require us to have identified all 3 scum already which is unlikely, it also makes the traitor mechanic a bit redundant. Your suggestion of a traitor and town neighbour pair is more plausible - the bulletproof traitor is scum so can claim what they want - presumably they would be less likely to claim bulletproof once the existence of a bulletproof traitor is outted. However, even then at worst they have multiple mis-elims before their CC actually becomes inevitable because said traitor would first push against their fellow neighbour (as we are seeing now in real time between the neighbours), and if their neighbour flipped town, they would likely push against my slot to challenge the setup information I shared. Is it a "good" setup design? I don't know. But that element at least seems fairly balanced - after all, a traitor surviving until the end isn't the most important thing for team mafia anyway.

Nonetheless, neither of those world views are most likely in my opinion. I'm currently thinking Almost50 is just normal mafia-neighbour using the bulletproof claim as a cover, and Zen could be just town. Which would mean the traitor is not in that pair. Of course I could be wrong, but there's nothing wrong with giving an opinion and trying to suss out the game.

On the veracity of my information, I'd add to all previous arguments that there seems to be pretty limited utility in my fake-claiming setup info about a bulletproof traitor (what would i have to gain? if we don't flip one, i look worse and worse, plus as a functionally spent role, I'd be sacrificing my own ability to claim a useful PR later), and surely the subsequent claims of bulletproof, vig etc. all support my original claim from a mech perspective. Generally as a rule of thumb, it's worth giving a bit of credence to early claims which end up fitting with the rest of the setup (although maybe too early to make that call here). But overall I'd say Mafia is not about concrete proof sometimes, but the balance of probability.

[T3]

The only proof we have of the existence of a bulletproof traitor is cool cookie's word. In a world where the bulletproof traitor is one of the neighbors with town, that puts them in an automatic CC on day 1. Does that make any sense as good setup design? Because it sounds terrible to me. Mafia would be put in a losing position from the start.

And if the neighbors were both mafia...wouldn't the traitor just claim to the other one?

Neither idea makes much sense to me.

WHAT IS THIS SHADE
independently of the hood i'd be townreading a50

[Dwlee99]

T3 why would you not claim no result I don't get it

Like couldn't Jacket be ascetic or something if you're town?

[Almost50]

hmm I like that you admitted he claimed it first. And the fact he claimed BP to you after knowing about the BP traitor makes me more wary it's a gambit from group-scum. seems more likely than Almost50 splurging about being the real traitor.

Town or Scum, you should at least try to be accurate. I didn't claim to "him". I claimed in the MAIN THREAD.

The reason I claimed is because people were all over the Complex Vig trying to yeet them on D1. I claimed to confirm their role likely exists and is most likely Town because -combined with the info YOU outed- I should be his "Miller"

[Almost50]

3. arguably more incentive for scum to claim bulletproof to avoid getting elimmed (coz just a traitor) than for a traitor to claim it as a signal.

And when exactly was I threatened in any way on D1?

[Almost50]

tbh if we elim Almost50 and he is the traitor, it's doubly useful because it makes it less likely redtea is scum.

redtea isn't bloody scum either way.

[Almost50]

did they claim bulletproof after the vig was revealed or before?

I claimed it AFTER. I mean people get pissed when I ask about things that has already been mentioned in the game, but the same people refuse to go back and read for themselves. (Not specifically STD. It's a general statement)

here's where I claimed:

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Townie to Townie.. the claim is very likely true. Don't tell anyone I said that though.

In fact, why not NOW:

I am a Town BP Neighbour. At first, I though being a Neighbour was to make me a Miller to a TA/PT Cop (as is the fad), but with that claim it makes more sense for me to be the Miller for the Complex Vig. I mean, without the Neighborhood I could just claim VT if redtea claims to have shot me. However, if I do get shot in this case; my Neighbour will out me as their Neighbour and thus a PR who should have been dead.

@Dwlee: happy now?? Now Scum won't try to shoot me on N1 (or any other night). THAT IS WHY I don't feel the need to out everything I know upon "someone's request".

People were pushing redtea and piling up on him. I said his claim was believable to me and some people didn't get the hint. I had to full claim to save redtea from being massacred on D1. Whether you like my play or not is up to you, but that's what happened and that's what I'd do every single time

[Almost50]

mods do try to make confusing setups

How true. Like, I dunno if Kyouko designed the game all by herself or if the reviewers put their touch, but I do know these two reviewers like to defy conventional/traditional presumptions. Like, they could give Scum a BP without there being a killing role on the Town's side. Or they can give Scum a ONE-SHOT Ninja STRONGMAN with the inclusion of a Roaming Doctor, a Bodygaurd, a Watcher, and a STRONGMAN FINDER on the Town's side.

[TheZenMan]

did they claim bulletproof after the vig was revealed or before?

I claimed it AFTER. I mean people get pissed when I ask about things that has already been mentioned in the game, but the same people refuse to go back and read for themselves. (Not specifically STD. It's a general statement)

here's where I claimed:

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Townie to Townie.. the claim is very likely true. Don't tell anyone I said that though.

In fact, why not NOW:

I am a Town BP Neighbour. At first, I though being a Neighbour was to make me a Miller to a TA/PT Cop (as is the fad), but with that claim it makes more sense for me to be the Miller for the Complex Vig. I mean, without the Neighborhood I could just claim VT if redtea claims to have shot me. However, if I do get shot in this case; my Neighbour will out me as their Neighbour and thus a PR who should have been dead.

@Dwlee: happy now?? Now Scum won't try to shoot me on N1 (or any other night). THAT IS WHY I don't feel the need to out everything I know upon "someone's request".

People were pushing redtea and piling up on him. I said his claim was believable to me and some people didn't get the hint. I had to full claim to save redtea from being massacred on D1. Whether you like my play or not is up to you, but that's what happened and that's what I'd do every single time

At that point no one was after Redtea anymore, he had claimed and most people had already moved off him. You didn't have to full claim at all to save him, and you full claiming had no impact on his wagon. Plus you only waited 11 minutes between those 2 posts, that's hardly enough time for people to even see that first post let alone realise what you were trying to say.

Frankly, this is just a big misrep on what went down with your claim.

[redtea]

dont yall have things to do on mondays

[redtea]

this is all over the place so i'm going to try to work/read backwards a little bit

[redtea]

did they claim bulletproof after the vig was revealed or before?

I claimed it AFTER. I mean people get pissed when I ask about things that has already been mentioned in the game, but the same people refuse to go back and read for themselves. (Not specifically STD. It's a general statement)

here's where I claimed:

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Townie to Townie.. the claim is very likely true. Don't tell anyone I said that though.

In fact, why not NOW:

I am a Town BP Neighbour. At first, I though being a Neighbour was to make me a Miller to a TA/PT Cop (as is the fad), but with that claim it makes more sense for me to be the Miller for the Complex Vig. I mean, without the Neighborhood I could just claim VT if redtea claims to have shot me. However, if I do get shot in this case; my Neighbour will out me as their Neighbour and thus a PR who should have been dead.

@Dwlee: happy now?? Now Scum won't try to shoot me on N1 (or any other night). THAT IS WHY I don't feel the need to out everything I know upon "someone's request".

People were pushing redtea and piling up on him. I said his claim was believable to me and some people didn't get the hint. I had to full claim to save redtea from being massacred on D1. Whether you like my play or not is up to you, but that's what happened and that's what I'd do every single time

At that point no one was after Redtea anymore, he had claimed and most people had already moved off him. You didn't have to full claim at all to save him, and you full claiming had no impact on his wagon. Plus you only waited 11 minutes between those 2 posts, that's hardly enough time for people to even see that first post let alone realise what you were trying to say.

Frankly, this is just a big misrep on what went down with your claim.

it is misrep, but tbf he was posting as he was catching up at that time, and he replaced in after my claim

[redtea]

mods do try to make confusing setups

How true. Like, I dunno if Kyouko designed the game all by herself or if the reviewers put their touch, but I do know these two reviewers like to defy conventional/traditional presumptions. Like, they could give Scum a BP without there being a killing role on the Town's side. Or they can give Scum a ONE-SHOT Ninja STRONGMAN with the inclusion of a Roaming Doctor, a Bodygaurd, a Watcher, and a STRONGMAN FINDER on the Town's side.

what are you trying to crumb

[Almost50]

I'm not crumbing anything. I am saying don't try to outguess Isis and/or ChaosOmega

[redtea]

ah kk

Is it Normal for mafia to know their traitor's modifiers/abilities?

[redtea]

1. unlikely both claims are true as would be pretty weird setup-wise, therefore min 1 scum.

this is pretty outguessing the mod i don't like it

i respectfully disagree here

2. unlikely both players are scum otherwise we've solved game, therefore 1 claim likely true.

how do you know they aren't 2 members of the scum team pretending to be in a neighborhood?

this is a valid point

[redtea]

okay wow yeah
zenman claiming bp after a50
he ded

VOTE: a50

i haven't technically read everything but my brain doesn't want to untangle anymore madness and that right there is outed scum so

[redtea]

aw hell yeah that might've been hammer
ill definitely read everything before i submit my night action

[Almost50]

Stupid Town is stupid. GG Scum. You sure deserved the win. Peace out.

[Almost50]

Oh, and ALWAYS REMEMBER to say "Please don't lim me" when you're being ran up. It does miracles in some ranks. *Smirk*